If your spouse has mental health issues that are not fully controlled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mental health issues. The fear my spouse would leave me adds to the anxiety and unlovable/rejected feeling. Maybe your DH can sense you hate him and want to leave?

There's certainly that possibility (i definitely don't hate him, but i can see how he could get into that thought spiral when i do resent how much i can't depend on him for anything). sometimes i feel like what he wants is for me to have no needs of my own and to just exist as a person to support him and catch all the balls he can't handle. he says he loves me so much but i often feel that love is only in relation to him, not about me as an individual unique person.

given your spouse is a human being also with their own needs for support and attention and their own stress and frustrations that sometimes come out in imperfect ways, what do you wish they'd do to make the overall situation better (i mean that as a serious question)

DP with mental health problems. Sometimes the spouse of the struggling person looks like they're really good at everything. I always thought it was cruel to make me do things that were sooooooo hard for me when they seemed so easy for spouse. I think if mentally healthy spouse said, "hey, I actually can't deal with the status quo, I'm struggling with xyz, and I know you're struggling too, and can we could talk about it?" I think struggling spouse would probably say "Oh come on, you're so good with the kids, whereas I'm terrible etc etc." It will probably take a while to convince them that you really do need help sometimes. Then it will take a while to convince struggling spouse that they actually have anything to offer. And maybe they don't and outside help is the answer.

Thats helpful. thanks. and do you feel like the bold is correct? because of your own challenges there is really no space in your capacity to care about your partner also having needs because relative to what you're facing they seem fine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just discussing this with my therapist. She was our marriage therapist but then he stopped wanting to participate and I practically begged her to see me solo and she agreed, short-term.

Her advice was to detach emotionally. We talked through all of the difficulties of coparenting and being a single mother, huge for me right now with a newborn on the way and two other kids under 5. I agree with your assessment that it isn't worth all that divorce entails. She said there was no need for me to worry about the future right now, just focus on the present and enjoying my children. If you can swing an au pair or a nanny, I'd say go for it. I'd love an extra set of hands and to be able to take a break here and there.

Did she give you any practical advice on how to detach emotionally. I *know* thats what Ineed to do but can't seem to actually do it

Yes, it's pretty formulaic which is helpful to me.

1. Establishing and maintaining appropriate boundaries
2. Accepting reality/knowing that I am unable to affect change in him
3. Being present in my day to day life; not dwelling on the past or worrying about the future
4. Taking responsibility for my own mental health and needs - this is largely a self-care thing

Having said that, it's a lot of work. Breaking old patterns. Not being triggered (he has a history of infidelity, probably more than I'm even aware of). I'm going to work meditation into my routine to help calm my mind. I can see how I've contributed to some of this with codependency and anxiety. I work out frequently and that definitely helps.

Good luck, OP. I'm rooting for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To at said, if someone’s incapable of seeing a child’s needs and doing something correct about it, get help yesterday!

I tried fir the first 7 years to get mentally ill spouse to be involved with the kids, house, family. He was incapable, could not learn, ultimately did not care. He was so overwhelmed at basic life with a family he shut down and only worked and blocked out all things family - kids friends, school emails, school performance, sports or ECs, holiday trips, etc. He’s crash at 8pm on the couch snoring from his performance all day at the office. We got the leftovers of him, nothing.

Asking seriously (I'm not OP) -- Was he formally diagnosed with a mental illness that doctors said was clearly the cause of his inability or unwillingness to be involved with family at all? Posts on DCUM often describe behaviors like what you describe here, but not in discussions of mental illness--in discussions about relationships. You can see where I'm going. At what point is it "this is caused by mental illness" and at what point is it "he's actually not ill, he's a terrible person"?

Yes he had a neuropsych and it showed two root diagnoses not helpable w meds plus secondary anxiety and depression because of the unmanaged illnesses.

Of course he denies the dx and is supposed to seek out behavioral therapy.

To a spouse it presents the same, the same persistent, consistent, chronic mistreatment. So unless he improves the dx doesn’t matter: if feels to others like he’s constantly being an abusive a-hole.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know, op, many golf widows and women who are married to husbands who work weekends have problems too, some drink too much, some have affairs, some are just nasty people.

Know too that many people married to spouses who are off doing activities separate from the family aren’t happy either. My dad who is a senior citizen has told me stories of some of his friends (mostly men) who have said to their wives “If you go to (fill in that activity again, I won’t be here when you get back.

These activities are g-rated, it’s just that the spouse who isn’t included gets to a point where they no longer want to spend weekends alone. These are often people who have been married for decades, often with grown kids, meaning that the spouse who is home isn’t doing childcare and has the physical freedom and the time (and the money) to go do whatever they want.,

I have every reason to believe women have similar stories, this isn’t gender specific, it’s just that I hear these stories from my dad.
If you want to stay happily married, you need to encourage your husband to participate in family life.

I notice that you mention that he’d find a girlfriend if the two of you divorced, meaning he has the skill sets to attract and sustain a relationship. If he can do that for some woman in the future, he can do that for you.
He married you, meaning that he had the skill set to attract you.

I’d try to figure out what changed and why he isn’t doing everything he can to take care of you emotionally.
I also noticed that you mention wanting to hire help, yet you begrudge him for doing the same. Why?

That doesn’t seem fair to me, and makes me wonder how you may be treating him.
Hire whatever help you’d like, t hough realize whoever you hire will need and deserve a schedule. They won’t just show up whenever your husband goes into the basement, even if they live with you. That era of on demmand help ended in the 1930’s.
Finally, tell your husband what you need. Don’t expect him to talk about it, just say “I need…” and mean it.

If the basement is what draws him, would you consider a house without a basement? I’m being serious.

If his meds aren’t working, would he consider alternatives? Google the drummer’s high, it feels a lot like falling in love minus the sexual hormones. It’s wonderful. You can buy drum pads now with headphones, which probably keeps the neighbors happy but also makes me a little sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know, op, many golf widows and women who are married to husbands who work weekends have problems too, some drink too much, some have affairs, some are just nasty people.

Know too that many people married to spouses who are off doing activities separate from the family aren’t happy either. My dad who is a senior citizen has told me stories of some of his friends (mostly men) who have said to their wives “If you go to (fill in that activity again, I won’t be here when you get back.

These activities are g-rated, it’s just that the spouse who isn’t included gets to a point where they no longer want to spend weekends alone. These are often people who have been married for decades, often with grown kids, meaning that the spouse who is home isn’t doing childcare and has the physical freedom and the time (and the money) to go do whatever they want.,

I have every reason to believe women have similar stories, this isn’t gender specific, it’s just that I hear these stories from my dad.
If you want to stay happily married, you need to encourage your husband to participate in family life.

I notice that you mention that he’d find a girlfriend if the two of you divorced, meaning he has the skill sets to attract and sustain a relationship. If he can do that for some woman in the future, he can do that for you.
He married you, meaning that he had the skill set to attract you.

I’d try to figure out what changed and why he isn’t doing everything he can to take care of you emotionally.
I also noticed that you mention wanting to hire help, yet you begrudge him for doing the same. Why?

That doesn’t seem fair to me, and makes me wonder how you may be treating him.
Hire whatever help you’d like, t hough realize whoever you hire will need and deserve a schedule. They won’t just show up whenever your husband goes into the basement, even if they live with you. That era of on demmand help ended in the 1930’s.
Finally, tell your husband what you need. Don’t expect him to talk about it, just say “I need…” and mean it.

If the basement is what draws him, would you consider a house without a basement? I’m being serious.

If his meds aren’t working, would he consider alternatives? Google the drummer’s high, it feels a lot like falling in love minus the sexual hormones. It’s wonderful. You can buy drum pads now with headphones, which probably keeps the neighbors happy but also makes me a little sad.

Unfortunately what changed is 2 kids and his inability to cope with the added responsibilities. I didn’t understood fully how bad his mental health issues were until we had kids and his inability to consistently care for his own children became so apparent. I know some men are this way and view that as not their job and go out golfing, but he’s not one of them. It’s not a matter of finding the right words or letting him sink or swim bc he will sink at the cost of our kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know, op, many golf widows and women who are married to husbands who work weekends have problems too, some drink too much, some have affairs, some are just nasty people.

Know too that many people married to spouses who are off doing activities separate from the family aren’t happy either. My dad who is a senior citizen has told me stories of some of his friends (mostly men) who have said to their wives “If you go to (fill in that activity again, I won’t be here when you get back.

These activities are g-rated, it’s just that the spouse who isn’t included gets to a point where they no longer want to spend weekends alone. These are often people who have been married for decades, often with grown kids, meaning that the spouse who is home isn’t doing childcare and has the physical freedom and the time (and the money) to go do whatever they want.,

I have every reason to believe women have similar stories, this isn’t gender specific, it’s just that I hear these stories from my dad.
If you want to stay happily married, you need to encourage your husband to participate in family life.

I notice that you mention that he’d find a girlfriend if the two of you divorced, meaning he has the skill sets to attract and sustain a relationship. If he can do that for some woman in the future, he can do that for you.
He married you, meaning that he had the skill set to attract you.

I’d try to figure out what changed and why he isn’t doing everything he can to take care of you emotionally.
I also noticed that you mention wanting to hire help, yet you begrudge him for doing the same. Why?

That doesn’t seem fair to me, and makes me wonder how you may be treating him.
Hire whatever help you’d like, t hough realize whoever you hire will need and deserve a schedule. They won’t just show up whenever your husband goes into the basement, even if they live with you. That era of on demmand help ended in the 1930’s.
Finally, tell your husband what you need. Don’t expect him to talk about it, just say “I need…” and mean it.

If the basement is what draws him, would you consider a house without a basement? I’m being serious.

If his meds aren’t working, would he consider alternatives? Google the drummer’s high, it feels a lot like falling in love minus the sexual hormones. It’s wonderful. You can buy drum pads now with headphones, which probably keeps the neighbors happy but also makes me a little sad.

Unfortunately what changed is 2 kids and his inability to cope with the added responsibilities. I didn’t understood fully how bad his mental health issues were until we had kids and his inability to consistently care for his own children became so apparent. I know some men are this way and view that as not their job and go out golfing, but he’s not one of them. It’s not a matter of finding the right words or letting him sink or swim bc he will sink at the cost of our kids

This is me -- even after 2 decades. The best thing you can do is realize that he is not capable and act accordingly. What specifically you do, depends to some extent on how much financial resources you have - do you hire a babysitter or find a babysitting coop, a nanny or regular help from friends, etc.? I basically do not expect my exDH to do anything any more. It is less exhausting than expecting him to do something and then he fails to do as promised.

Also, I recommend the NAMI Family 2 Family class. You will find others in the same position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you do to make life sustainable for you? DH is fine sometimes and entirely checked out others. I'm trying to think through all the logistical and emotional supports I can have in place so i'm no longer on the roller coaster with him. We have 2 small toddlers, I need to no longer be so impacted when he's having a rough spell and checks out entirely for the weekend leaving me with so much more work and less fun than when he can be a normal engaged parter and spouse.

Op, my DH has severe anxiety. He’s on meds (lots of meds) and sees a therapist as needed (saw one for 5 years weekly). Most of the time, he’s fine - anxious, but not crippling. When he’s not, I don’t want him around the kids, and I don’t want to be around, either. He gets angry, and threatens to self harm to manipulate me.

I stay because I love him, because he’s sorry after, because I truly know he can’t help the behavior. It is an illness. He’s trying. Getting angry at him is like blaming a cancer patient for being sick when they are doing everything they can to get well. I not condemning those who leave — it’s hard to live with someone when their medical condition seems to impact everything you do.

I will leave if his rages become something I can’t shield the kids from. He knows that, and usually when he feels triggered, he removes himself. If not, I remove myself and the kids. I am absolutely not leaving him in charge of the kids for 30-50% of the time — his typical low grade anxiety is well balanced when I am around, but would be a disaster on his own with the kids for days at a time.

I would recommend therapy for yourself. I used to be resentful that my DH has anxiety, I used to be angry at myself that I stayed when I saw warning signs of untreated anxiety (pre-kids), but I have honestly come to accept DH, anxiety and all. There are positive silver linings - he’s has a good career because he’s so uptight about work. He loves me and is anxious I will leave, so treats me well (anxiety aside). My DH is a good father and good person, so it is worth it to me to support him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you do to make life sustainable for you? DH is fine sometimes and entirely checked out others. I'm trying to think through all the logistical and emotional supports I can have in place so i'm no longer on the roller coaster with him. We have 2 small toddlers, I need to no longer be so impacted when he's having a rough spell and checks out entirely for the weekend leaving me with so much more work and less fun than when he can be a normal engaged parter and spouse.

Op, my DH has severe anxiety. He’s on meds (lots of meds) and sees a therapist as needed (saw one for 5 years weekly). Most of the time, he’s fine - anxious, but not crippling. When he’s not, I don’t want him around the kids, and I don’t want to be around, either. He gets angry, and threatens to self harm to manipulate me.

I stay because I love him, because he’s sorry after, because I truly know he can’t help the behavior. It is an illness. He’s trying. Getting angry at him is like blaming a cancer patient for being sick when they are doing everything they can to get well. I not condemning those who leave — it’s hard to live with someone when their medical condition seems to impact everything you do.

I will leave if his rages become something I can’t shield the kids from. He knows that, and usually when he feels triggered, he removes himself. If not, I remove myself and the kids. I am absolutely not leaving him in charge of the kids for 30-50% of the time — his typical low grade anxiety is well balanced when I am around, but would be a disaster on his own with the kids for days at a time.

I would recommend therapy for yourself. I used to be resentful that my DH has anxiety, I used to be angry at myself that I stayed when I saw warning signs of untreated anxiety (pre-kids), but I have honestly come to accept DH, anxiety and all. There are positive silver linings - he’s has a good career because he’s so uptight about work. He loves me and is anxious I will leave, so treats me well (anxiety aside). My DH is a good father and good person, so it is worth it to me to support him.

Pp here - in terms of logistics, I am really independent with our schedule and the kids. I don’t count on him, but appreciate when he joins us or takes one to an activity. For me, once I got to the acceptance, I worked out the logistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To at said, if someone’s incapable of seeing a child’s needs and doing something correct about it, get help yesterday!

I tried fir the first 7 years to get mentally ill spouse to be involved with the kids, house, family. He was incapable, could not learn, ultimately did not care. He was so overwhelmed at basic life with a family he shut down and only worked and blocked out all things family - kids friends, school emails, school performance, sports or ECs, holiday trips, etc. He’s crash at 8pm on the couch snoring from his performance all day at the office. We got the leftovers of him, nothing.

Asking seriously (I'm not OP) -- Was he formally diagnosed with a mental illness that doctors said was clearly the cause of his inability or unwillingness to be involved with family at all? Posts on DCUM often describe behaviors like what you describe here, but not in discussions of mental illness--in discussions about relationships. You can see where I'm going. At what point is it "this is caused by mental illness" and at what point is it "he's actually not ill, he's a terrible person"?

Yes he had a neuropsych and it showed two root diagnoses not helpable w meds plus secondary anxiety and depression because of the unmanaged illnesses.

Of course he denies the dx and is supposed to seek out behavioral therapy.

To a spouse it presents the same, the same persistent, consistent, chronic mistreatment. So unless he improves the dx doesn’t matter: if feels to others like he’s constantly being an abusive a-hole.

I'm the PP to whom you responded. Thank you for the clarification. I'm so sorry. The words "not helpable with meds" must have been pretty devastating for you to hear, because here online, everyone advises spouses of mentally ill people to "just get him the right meds!" etc. as if that's always an answer. Since you use the past tense about him and say that it was for the first seven years that you tried to work with things -- I'm figuring you are no longer together. I'm sorry, but it sounds like an untenable life to remain with someone in that situation unless the person seriously sought the required therapy. I hope you and your kids are doing better.

[Anonymous]

OP and others, I'm curious, are you just buying time til your kids are out of the house? Do you think you leave or stay once you are empty nester? Seems like the main motivation to stay together won't be there at that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you do to make life sustainable for you? DH is fine sometimes and entirely checked out others. I'm trying to think through all the logistical and emotional supports I can have in place so i'm no longer on the roller coaster with him. We have 2 small toddlers, I need to no longer be so impacted when he's having a rough spell and checks out entirely for the weekend leaving me with so much more work and less fun than when he can be a normal engaged parter and spouse.

Op, my DH has severe anxiety. He’s on meds (lots of meds) and sees a therapist as needed (saw one for 5 years weekly). Most of the time, he’s fine - anxious, but not crippling. When he’s not, I don’t want him around the kids, and I don’t want to be around, either. He gets angry, and threatens to self harm to manipulate me.

I stay because I love him, because he’s sorry after, because I truly know he can’t help the behavior. It is an illness. He’s trying. Getting angry at him is like blaming a cancer patient for being sick when they are doing everything they can to get well. I not condemning those who leave — it’s hard to live with someone when their medical condition seems to impact everything you do.

I will leave if his rages become something I can’t shield the kids from. He knows that, and usually when he feels triggered, he removes himself. If not, I remove myself and the kids. I am absolutely not leaving him in charge of the kids for 30-50% of the time — his typical low grade anxiety is well balanced when I am around, but would be a disaster on his own with the kids for days at a time.

I would recommend therapy for yourself. I used to be resentful that my DH has anxiety, I used to be angry at myself that I stayed when I saw warning signs of untreated anxiety (pre-kids), but I have honestly come to accept DH, anxiety and all. There are positive silver linings - he’s has a good career because he’s so uptight about work. He loves me and is anxious I will leave, so treats me well (anxiety aside). My DH is a good father and good person, so it is worth it to me to support him.

What’s driving the anxiety? Is it autism?

I am in that boat. The anti anxiety meds help bring down the rages but the executive functioning def, lack of caring or thought, and poor verbal can’t really improve unless he works on it w a PhD psychologist who isn’t a flying monkey. He’s rather go be obsessed with his work or pretend he likes smart phones.

[Anonymous]

If you’ve noticed all the sexless marriage threads, you should also realize underlying mental illness is a contributing factor in most of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you’ve noticed all the sexless marriage threads, you should also realize underlying mental illness is a contributing factor in most of them.

It’s well documented that ASD/NT marriages don’t have a sex life, given the parent/child relationship that develops in the marriage as responsibilities amount.

But are you saying something else about someone else?