Is being married and having children a barometer of success?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I admit, whenever I see a woman married to a "good guy" and by that I mean, someone desirable and high quality with good character, well respected and an overall decent guy, I am envious. It is challenging to meet and date these types of guys so if she is one who manages to get and settle down with one, I consider it an accomplishment. Having 1 or 2 well adjusted kids rates her success even higher.

I do not think it is an accomplishment to marry or procreate with low quality guys. I guess its biology. Women choose to mate with the highest quality man possible. Those who can are winners.

It's not hard if you meet and settle down right after college or before late twenties.

This is true. In my observation, these guys are the first to exit the dating scene and marry college GFs or the girls they meet upon graduation. I also suspect the longer someone has been in the dating pool, the more damaged or broken they are.

I basically agree, but I think there's a good pool of guys until the mid to late 20's. Most good guys get nervous about approaching 30 without getting married so they can start a family. Any guy who's still single by early to mid 30's is usually damaged. Avoid any guy who's 35 + and never been married, unless they were in a 10 year coma or something else extreme.

What about guys in their 30s and forties who are divorced?

I suffered from bad social anxiety, but with help I overcame it. Too bad women see me as damaged since I never married. Why even bother dating/trying...I have expired.

As a 33 year old woman I am the same. I was socially awkward even though I was raised in a loving home with two doting parents. Due to lack of experience I picked the wrong guy who ended up having mental health issues and here I am. Childless and divorced.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely not. Four of my closest friends are not married and don't have kids (and will not, at this point) and they are incredibly successful and worthy people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I married a surgeon and have two bright well adjusted kids. I am very thankful for my situation. I also work full time professionally so my feeling of success comes from that, not my husband or kids. I have single friends in their 40s who never married and I know how lonely they are and regretful that they will never have kids. But it was something that was important to me, and I had to go out there and date a lot of people until I found the right one, and be they type of woman that they wanted to marry (wear makeup, dress well, stay thin). It also takes A LOT of compromise, I had to put my career on hold, deal with his long hours, and I completely understand that some women don’t want to change who they are. But I’m happy and would do it over again in a heartbeat.

Hopefully you're a better friend than to let them buy into the notion that they should be lonely and regretful, or that there problem is somehow that they failed to "be the type of women that they wanted to marry" (wtf?). I have several friends in their 40s with no kids (5 women and 1 man). Only for one is it by choice (got her tubes tied in her 30s). The rest of them I'm sure are sad in some respects, but when we talk about our lives, it's clear what I've given up to have kids that they have not. And they have all done amazing things that I can't - relocating abroad, taking huge career risks to be where they truly want, quitting work for several years to travel, focusing on tenure and career advancement, buying several houses on their own and renovating from the ground up, creating amazing gardens, and onwards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh, i come from my own perspective that unless she has a satisfying job, i see nothing successful about a woman with babies who got married to a nice guy. Because i'm not sure how any of that is an accomplishment.

Woman with nice husband, kids and good job? success!

Woman with no husband or kids, but good job, and she is happy with her life? Success!

Woman with nice husband and kids, who piddles around with zumba and the PTA? I mean, she hasn't "achieved" anything, so i'd call that a neutral.

Woman with husband, kids and job or no job, who's not happy? Not a success.

Why is there no room in the equation for: If the woman with the nice husband and kids, Zumba and PTA is happy, that’s a success - ? People find meaning and happiness in different things, and that’s okay.

DP. Being happy isn’t being a success. They’re just different things. If being successful isn’t important to you, there are more ways to be happy.

[Anonymous]

You are pretty naive. When you "see" these things you are jealous...but you have no idea what their lives are actually like. You are praising appearances only.

A lot of men who appear to be the way you think are actually not nice guys and jerk husbands who externally look successful due to their careers.

I married...and divorced one of them. Yes, I was an idiot brainwashed by the "marry what seems to be a good guy" success.

It was sheer misery. Success if living well how you want to live (marriage and kids not being a "barometer").

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I admit, whenever I see a woman married to a "good guy" and by that I mean, someone desirable and high quality with good character, well respected and an overall decent guy, I am envious. It is challenging to meet and date these types of guys so if she is one who manages to get and settle down with one, I consider it an accomplishment. Having 1 or 2 well adjusted kids rates her success even higher.

I do not think it is an accomplishment to marry or procreate with low quality guys. I guess its biology. Women choose to mate with the highest quality man possible. Those who can are winners.

It's not hard if you meet and settle down right after college or before late twenties.

This is true. In my observation, these guys are the first to exit the dating scene and marry college GFs or the girls they meet upon graduation. I also suspect the longer someone has been in the dating pool, the more damaged or broken they are.

I basically agree, but I think there's a good pool of guys until the mid to late 20's. Most good guys get nervous about approaching 30 without getting married so they can start a family. Any guy who's still single by early to mid 30's is usually damaged. Avoid any guy who's 35 + and never been married, unless they were in a 10 year coma or something else extreme.

What about guys in their 30s and forties who are divorced?

I suffered from bad social anxiety, but with help I overcame it. Too bad women see me as damaged since I never married. Why even bother dating/trying...I have expired.

As a 33 year old woman I am the same. I was socially awkward even though I was raised in a loving home with two doting parents. Due to lack of experience I picked the wrong guy who ended up having mental health issues and here I am. Childless and divorced.

You are 33. You still have time to remarry. And have kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh, i come from my own perspective that unless she has a satisfying job, i see nothing successful about a woman with babies who got married to a nice guy. Because i'm not sure how any of that is an accomplishment.

Woman with nice husband, kids and good job? success!

Woman with no husband or kids, but good job, and she is happy with her life? Success!

Woman with nice husband and kids, who piddles around with zumba and the PTA? I mean, she hasn't "achieved" anything, so i'd call that a neutral.

Woman with husband, kids and job or no job, who's not happy? Not a success.

Why is there no room in the equation for: If the woman with the nice husband and kids, Zumba and PTA is happy, that’s a success - ? People find meaning and happiness in different things, and that’s okay.

Because they literally haven't succeeded at anything. Happy? Sure. Success? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely not. Four of my closest friends are not married and don't have kids (and will not, at this point) and they are incredibly successful and worthy people.

I think you're confusing being worthy with being successful and also being successful at work with being successful at creating a family (assuming you want a family). Of course there are worthy people who never married and had kids. But they're not good candidates to start a family with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh, i come from my own perspective that unless she has a satisfying job, i see nothing successful about a woman with babies who got married to a nice guy. Because i'm not sure how any of that is an accomplishment.

Woman with nice husband, kids and good job? success!

Woman with no husband or kids, but good job, and she is happy with her life? Success!

Woman with nice husband and kids, who piddles around with zumba and the PTA? I mean, she hasn't "achieved" anything, so i'd call that a neutral.

Woman with husband, kids and job or no job, who's not happy? Not a success.

Why is there no room in the equation for: If the woman with the nice husband and kids, Zumba and PTA is happy, that’s a success - ? People find meaning and happiness in different things, and that’s okay.

Because they literally haven't succeeded at anything. Happy? Sure. Success? No.

Fair enough. But what about someone who has a lower-earning job in a field they love, with meaningful work. Is that “success”, if they are excelling at what they do, and love their work, but in a low-earning field?

[Anonymous]

Not to me it isn't.

[Anonymous]

I find the attitude of others about how there must be something weird or wrong with someone who reaches XXXX age unmarried so rude and smug. Probably because it applies to me. It makes me feel totally worthless and like another person posted, 'expired.'.

I'm a successful woman in my late 30s, but I spent my 30s pursuing a demanding career and in school, but mostly was preoccupied taking care of an ill family member.There was no one else that could help, although I guess I could have just said,' not my problem,' but I didn't.... I didn't have time to devote to a relationship, and I was completely emotionally spent from caretaking. Guess what, sometimes life isn't easy and doesn't follow the same map as everyone. I told myself that to make myself feel better, and make it through some really tough, low times.

Now that I'm on the other side of all of that I am 'weird' or 'off', since I don't have a divorce under my belt, I guess. What's the point in trying now? I used to think it was a plus that I had made it through all these tough things, now I find out I'm weird because I've reached the dreaded age where SOMETHING must be wrong since I'm single.

Please think before you're so smug and dismissive about other people. We all don't get the same opportunities or luck. The older I get the more I think it's luck. When you aren't lucky enough to have the freedom to go out every night you don't have much luck. And then it's too late because you're expired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know there "good guys"? Just because there successful, respected, handsome etc doesn't mean there not a cheating lying asshat to there wives.

My husband is probably what you would consider low quality since he's a little over weight, not a 10, nor earning 6 figures and respected by all. But he's loyal, family orieand always puts me and our daughters above himself. Oh and my daughters are very well rounded, educated and self sufficient in not needing a man to get what they want.

I would say I hit the jackpot but what do I know I married a lower middle classman

This. I married my college sweetheart who was one of these “good guys” for many years. Then he hit his forties, experienced a midlife crisis, checked out of our marriage, and even worse, checked out of parenting. He has moved out, goes to the gym 5-6 nights a week and then socializes with his gym buddies afterward, and tries to find time to have dinner with our kids (who are not yet teenagers) once a week, but it’s hard to do because he works such a demanding job. I’d trade places with this pp in a heartbeat. I’m so glad she realizes and appreciates the gem she has.

Sorry to say but your DH may be having an affair. I would do some sleuthing to find out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find the attitude of others about how there must be something weird or wrong with someone who reaches XXXX age unmarried so rude and smug. Probably because it applies to me. It makes me feel totally worthless and like another person posted, 'expired.'.

I'm a successful woman in my late 30s, but I spent my 30s pursuing a demanding career and in school, but mostly was preoccupied taking care of an ill family member.There was no one else that could help, although I guess I could have just said,' not my problem,' but I didn't.... I didn't have time to devote to a relationship, and I was completely emotionally spent from caretaking. Guess what, sometimes life isn't easy and doesn't follow the same map as everyone. I told myself that to make myself feel better, and make it through some really tough, low times.

Now that I'm on the other side of all of that I am 'weird' or 'off', since I don't have a divorce under my belt, I guess. What's the point in trying now? I used to think it was a plus that I had made it through all these tough things, now I find out I'm weird because I've reached the dreaded age where SOMETHING must be wrong since I'm single.

Please think before you're so smug and dismissive about other people. We all don't get the same opportunities or luck. The older I get the more I think it's luck. When you aren't lucky enough to have the freedom to go out every night you don't have much luck. And then it's too late because you're expired.

Please don’t internalize what you read here, PP. It’s not reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find the attitude of others about how there must be something weird or wrong with someone who reaches XXXX age unmarried so rude and smug. Probably because it applies to me. It makes me feel totally worthless and like another person posted, 'expired.'.

I'm a successful woman in my late 30s, but I spent my 30s pursuing a demanding career and in school, but mostly was preoccupied taking care of an ill family member.There was no one else that could help, although I guess I could have just said,' not my problem,' but I didn't.... I didn't have time to devote to a relationship, and I was completely emotionally spent from caretaking. Guess what, sometimes life isn't easy and doesn't follow the same map as everyone. I told myself that to make myself feel better, and make it through some really tough, low times.

Now that I'm on the other side of all of that I am 'weird' or 'off', since I don't have a divorce under my belt, I guess. What's the point in trying now? I used to think it was a plus that I had made it through all these tough things, now I find out I'm weird because I've reached the dreaded age where SOMETHING must be wrong since I'm single.

Please think before you're so smug and dismissive about other people. We all don't get the same opportunities or luck. The older I get the more I think it's luck. When you aren't lucky enough to have the freedom to go out every night you don't have much luck. And then it's too late because you're expired.

PP, I agree with you and I'm married. Some of the most interesting, beautiful, kind-hearted and successful people I know have never married. I think it is just luck of timing. Not just finding the right person but also being in a life stage that can accommodate dating and marriage at the same time as the other person. And it happens to men and to women. I think you have to ignore these people talking about "damage" -- they are mostly 20 somethings expressing a cultural attitude that scares them (and is also ruining their youth by making them so desperate to get married). Or they are married people trying to feel smug and superior about being married because they are insecure about other things in their lives.

Also, my friend and neighbor, an extraordinary woman in her 40s, who has been single for years because her work requires extensive travel all over the world, recently met an equally wonderful person, also in his 40s, who loves how much she travels (he is from another country and also travels a lot) and loves how grounded and mature she is. It has been so sweet watching them fall in love. We had dinner with them a few weeks ago on their back deck and I remember thinking how wonderful it is that they both spent so much time becoming the amazing people they are and then get to share that with each other. If they'd met in their 20s, I wonder if they would have even cared. I think they both would have had too much wanderlust to want to tie themselves down back then.

Anyway, life is more variables than these narrow-minded people are making it out to be. Don't let their silly little assertions overrule what you know is true, which is that you are a valuable person who deserves happiness an any age, no matter your marital status or whether or not you have kids.

[Anonymous]

Women who can marry rich enough time have several kids and not work plus have an UMC lifestyle are the definition of success