Is being married and having children a barometer of success?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I also find that confident guys who know they have no business getting married at 23, can mature on their own with experience dating, traveling, living an untethered life for a while which is something I value. I didn’t know who I was right out of college and I have changed. A lot. So did most of my friends.

I'm a good father and husband; make a decent husband. But there's no way I was a good catch in my early 20s. And if I hadn't spent the better part of my 20s getting drunk and being fairly irresponsible, I wouldn't be as good a father & husband as I am now. That stuff is fun, but it wears thin. Now, when I'm shouldering the burdens of the world, I don't mind so much because I know the appeal of that untethered life is superficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I also find that confident guys who know they have no business getting married at 23, can mature on their own with experience dating, traveling, living an untethered life for a while which is something I value. I didn’t know who I was right out of college and I have changed. A lot. So did most of my friends.

I'm a good father and husband; make a decent husband. But there's no way I was a good catch in my early 20s. And if I hadn't spent the better part of my 20s getting drunk and being fairly irresponsible, I wouldn't be as good a father & husband as I am now. That stuff is fun, but it wears thin. Now, when I'm shouldering the burdens of the world, I don't mind so much because I know the appeal of that untethered life is superficial.

Maybe I had too much fun in college, but after graduation I was ready to slow down. I ended up marrying college GF in my mid 20s, so we had 4 years of playing house during grad school before marriage. Having children and starting a family was a priority. We've going strong 24 years later, most of our friends from grad school who were married while in school are still together

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I also find that confident guys who know they have no business getting married at 23, can mature on their own with experience dating, traveling, living an untethered life for a while which is something I value. I didn’t know who I was right out of college and I have changed. A lot. So did most of my friends.

I'm a good father and husband; make a decent husband. But there's no way I was a good catch in my early 20s. And if I hadn't spent the better part of my 20s getting drunk and being fairly irresponsible, I wouldn't be as good a father & husband as I am now. That stuff is fun, but it wears thin. Now, when I'm shouldering the burdens of the world, I don't mind so much because I know the appeal of that untethered life is superficial.

Maybe I had too much fun in college, but after graduation I was ready to slow down. I ended up marrying college GF in my mid 20s, so we had 4 years of playing house during grad school before marriage. Having children and starting a family was a priority. We've going strong 24 years later, most of our friends from grad school who were married while in school are still together

You're probably a faster learner than me! I had a lot of fun in college as well. But, for me, my college fun never got old. I thoroughly enjoyed those years. It was only the non-college days of drinking and being single that started to wear thin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I admit, whenever I see a woman married to a "good guy" and by that I mean, someone desirable and high quality with good character, well respected and an overall decent guy, I am envious. It is challenging to meet and date these types of guys so if she is one who manages to get and settle down with one, I consider it an accomplishment. Having 1 or 2 well adjusted kids rates her success even higher.

I do not think it is an accomplishment to marry or procreate with low quality guys. I guess its biology. Women choose to mate with the highest quality man possible. Those who can are winners.

It's not hard if you meet and settle down right after college or before late twenties.

This is true. In my observation, these guys are the first to exit the dating scene and marry college GFs or the girls they meet upon graduation. I also suspect the longer someone has been in the dating pool, the more damaged or broken they are.

+ 1

The longest and best marriages I know of started off dating in college.

Wow, surprised by these answers. They don’t really get backed up by studies though because the longer you wait to get married, the more likely you are to stay married. I also find that confident guys who know they have no business getting married at 23, can mature on their own with experience dating, traveling, living an untethered life for a while which is something I value. I didn’t know who I was right out of college and I have changed. A lot. So did most of my friends. I will counsel my kids to wait until they are late 20s at the earliest to settle down. I’ve seen far too many crash and burn first marriages where the couple met in college. You simply need more experience.

And you need to make fewer assumptions. I didn't say any of these people got married at 23. Just that they started dating at 20/21/22. In my larger circle and from what I have observed among friends' larger circles, marriages among college educated professionals start 27/28. These people who met in college just dated longer before moving in together. Date for five years, live together for 2 or 3, then get engaged, then get married a year later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I admit, whenever I see a woman married to a "good guy" and by that I mean, someone desirable and high quality with good character, well respected and an overall decent guy, I am envious. It is challenging to meet and date these types of guys so if she is one who manages to get and settle down with one, I consider it an accomplishment. Having 1 or 2 well adjusted kids rates her success even higher.

I do not think it is an accomplishment to marry or procreate with low quality guys. I guess its biology. Women choose to mate with the highest quality man possible. Those who can are winners.

It's not hard if you meet and settle down right after college or before late twenties.

This is true. In my observation, these guys are the first to exit the dating scene and marry college GFs or the girls they meet upon graduation. I also suspect the longer someone has been in the dating pool, the more damaged or broken they are.

+ 1

The longest and best marriages I know of started off dating in college.

Wow, surprised by these answers. They don’t really get backed up by studies though because the longer you wait to get married, the more likely you are to stay married. I also find that confident guys who know they have no business getting married at 23, can mature on their own with experience dating, traveling, living an untethered life for a while which is something I value. I didn’t know who I was right out of college and I have changed. A lot. So did most of my friends. I will counsel my kids to wait until they are late 20s at the earliest to settle down. I’ve seen far too many crash and burn first marriages where the couple met in college. You simply need more experience.

Just as an aside, no this isn't the case. Past the age of 32, divorce odds increase 5 percent per year of age at marriage (according to Institute of Family Studies). Risk of divorce is also higher for those marrying before mid twenties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh, i come from my own perspective that unless she has a satisfying job, i see nothing successful about a woman with babies who got married to a nice guy. Because i'm not sure how any of that is an accomplishment.

Woman with nice husband, kids and good job? success!

Woman with no husband or kids, but good job, and she is happy with her life? Success!

Woman with nice husband and kids, who piddles around with zumba and the PTA? I mean, she hasn't "achieved" anything, so i'd call that a neutral.

Woman with husband, kids and job or no job, who's not happy? Not a success.

Why is there no room in the equation for: If the woman with the nice husband and kids, Zumba and PTA is happy, that’s a success - ? People find meaning and happiness in different things, and that’s okay.

Because they literally haven't succeeded at anything. Happy? Sure. Success? No.

Many women are highly educated and achieve career success, even as you are defining it, BEFORE they have kids. Especially as age at marriage and first birth are increasing.

[Anonymous]

Yes, the answer is simply yes. Anyone saying otherwise is simply projecting what they WISH were different about the world and the human condition.

[Anonymous]

Funny, I always saw those who NEEDED to be married because they were either incapable of being alone, need financial security, or were too insecure to be alone as rank failures at adulting. This, of course, excludes those emotionally mature and healthy individuals who found truly solid and healthy love. But I think about 80% of the people on this planet fall in to the first bucket and really are not emotionally healthy/secure enough to be alone and married the "good enough" person who happened to be around at the right time.

None of that sounds like success to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I also find that confident guys who know they have no business getting married at 23, can mature on their own with experience dating, traveling, living an untethered life for a while which is something I value. I didn’t know who I was right out of college and I have changed. A lot. So did most of my friends.

I'm a good father and husband; make a decent husband. But there's no way I was a good catch in my early 20s. And if I hadn't spent the better part of my 20s getting drunk and being fairly irresponsible, I wouldn't be as good a father & husband as I am now. That stuff is fun, but it wears thin. Now, when I'm shouldering the burdens of the world, I don't mind so much because I know the appeal of that untethered life is superficial.

Maybe I had too much fun in college, but after graduation I was ready to slow down. I ended up marrying college GF in my mid 20s, so we had 4 years of playing house during grad school before marriage. Having children and starting a family was a priority. We've going strong 24 years later, most of our friends from grad school who were married while in school are still together

You're probably a faster learner than me! I had a lot of fun in college as well. But, for me, my college fun never got old. I thoroughly enjoyed those years. It was only the non-college days of drinking and being single that started to wear thin.

DP here. I don't disagree with you, but how old were you when you met your future wife then married her? Big difference if you were single at 28 vs. 38.

[Anonymous]

This post shows how competitive women really are at heart and it makes me sad.

[Anonymous]

It’s doesn’t mean you’re successful, but I’d have trouble feeling successful if I hadn’t got married and had kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you know there "good guys"? Just because there successful, respected, handsome etc doesn't mean there not a cheating lying asshat to there wives.

My husband is probably what you would consider low quality since he's a little over weight, not a 10, nor earning 6 figures and respected by all. But he's loyal, family orieand always puts me and our daughters above himself. Oh and my daughters are very well rounded, educated and self sufficient in not needing a man to get what they want.

I would say I hit the jackpot but what do I know I married a lower middle classman

Oh please. I’m sure there are men who cheat in all socioeconomic levels, but it’s naive to think that all families who appear successful and happy are hiding some deep, dark secret. The vast majority of time more successful people have better social skills and better executive function. This applies to family life as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I married a surgeon and have two bright well adjusted kids. I am very thankful for my situation. I also work full time professionally so my feeling of success comes from that, not my husband or kids. I have single friends in their 40s who never married and I know how lonely they are and regretful that they will never have kids. But it was something that was important to me, and I had to go out there and date a lot of people until I found the right one, and be they type of woman that they wanted to marry (wear makeup, dress well, stay thin). It also takes A LOT of compromise, I had to put my career on hold, deal with his long hours, and I completely understand that some women don’t want to change who they are. But I’m happy and would do it over again in a heartbeat.

Hopefully you're a better friend than to let them buy into the notion that they should be lonely and regretful, or that there problem is somehow that they failed to "be the type of women that they wanted to marry" (wtf?). I have several friends in their 40s with no kids (5 women and 1 man). Only for one is it by choice (got her tubes tied in her 30s). The rest of them I'm sure are sad in some respects, but when we talk about our lives, it's clear what I've given up to have kids that they have not. And they have all done amazing things that I can't - relocating abroad, taking huge career risks to be where they truly want, quitting work for several years to travel, focusing on tenure and career advancement, buying several houses on their own and renovating from the ground up, creating amazing gardens, and onwards.

And yet, even knowing I gave all that up, all of that pales to being a parent. I would pick having kids every time.

[Anonymous]

I think of life success as being a combination of how has your life made a positive difference in this world and your contentment with the outcome. So if someone is in a miserable marriage or parented kids that were not productive members of society, I wouldn’t call those successes. I could be in a so-so career while being a wonderful spouse and/or parent and as long as I’m not upset that the relationship held me back in my career. - I would see that as success. If I am single and no kids I would see myself as successful if my career is making a positive difference (could be teacher, researcher, firefighter etc.) or I have an outside interest that fills that purpose and I’m not upset/blaming that my career from holding me back in relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find the attitude of others about how there must be something weird or wrong with someone who reaches XXXX age unmarried so rude and smug. Probably because it applies to me. It makes me feel totally worthless and like another person posted, 'expired.'.

I'm a successful woman in my late 30s, but I spent my 30s pursuing a demanding career and in school, but mostly was preoccupied taking care of an ill family member.There was no one else that could help, although I guess I could have just said,' not my problem,' but I didn't.... I didn't have time to devote to a relationship, and I was completely emotionally spent from caretaking. Guess what, sometimes life isn't easy and doesn't follow the same map as everyone. I told myself that to make myself feel better, and make it through some really tough, low times.

Now that I'm on the other side of all of that I am 'weird' or 'off', since I don't have a divorce under my belt, I guess. What's the point in trying now? I used to think it was a plus that I had made it through all these tough things, now I find out I'm weird because I've reached the dreaded age where SOMETHING must be wrong since I'm single.

Please think before you're so smug and dismissive about other people. We all don't get the same opportunities or luck. The older I get the more I think it's luck. When you aren't lucky enough to have the freedom to go out every night you don't have much luck. And then it's too late because you're expired.

You sound depressed and defeatist. This is the easiest way to repel quality people in the dating market.

Stop taking things so personally. People are speaking in generalities on this thread and others like it. Do you really think most people your age who are single were selflessly taking care of a family member??? Get real. You need to own your choices. Life isn’t fair, but you control how to play the hand youve been dealt.

You sound like you’re looking for someone to validate all the ways you’ve been wronged and were unlucky. Sorry. You’re not going to find many good men willing to sign up for that.