Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are your billable hours compared to target? If you're working 13 hours a day (9-5 and then 7-12) and not exceeding your billable hours requirement, there's a problem there. If you're working well in excess of your billable target, then that's a different issue to address.

I think this is a significant question. Even if you have significant non-billable commitments, you shouldn’t need to work this many hours on a regular basis to reach any kind of billable minimum.

I'm over target, though not as over as you might think as I tend to lose 2-3 days a month on sick (like norovirus, feel like I'm going to die sick) days. I'm not trying to reach a minimum, it's just work coming in.

[Anonymous]

Ok I will say it. Can your husband either make more money or do more for the baby (Ie pick ups and all housework)? You can’t be the breadwinner in big law and do 50% of the baby work.

I also agree with the dnd 5-7 and working late one night. Show your clients and colleagues that you will answer emails in the late evening and I am guessing that will be much easier. And see above about your husbands job and look for something saner if you would rather be spending more time with kids.

[Anonymous]

I'll also note, the longer days are sometimes trying to dig myself out after being sick. I could definitely see a nanny helping here (daycare germs).

[Anonymous]

I am now a government lawyer but spent a decade in biglaw, and had 2 kids during that time.  You do not need to quit, and you can do this!

Definitely switch to drop offs and have your husband handle pick ups.  I was lucky - I had a husband who worked but with a much more flexible schedule.  Both kids were in daycare and my husband almost always did pickups.  That was key.  In my experience, most folks in biglaw don't come in early (although I think people come in earlier in DC than NYC), so even if you go to work super early no one will know and instead will see you leaving at 5.  It doesn't matter what the junior associates think but when more senior people come in late, you will inevitably get emails in the afternoon that you have to deal with by the end of the day.  Five pm is just too early.  I've been a government lawyer for over 5 years, and I still don't leave at 5 (I guess many do, but I've never had a position where that's an option).  

This may be unpopular, but as others have noted you shouldn't worry too much about missing bedtime.  You should plan to leave early-ish on Friday nights and spend weekends with the baby, but Monday - Thursday let your husband handle bedtime so you can get your work done.  

Longer term, think about moving close to work if that's at all an option.  It took me close to an hour and half to get to work with daycare drop off  and it would have been great to live closer.  So if you are renting, I'd think about moving closer.  Also, and you probably are already doing this, but do all your grocery and baby shopping online, hire a cleaning person, have meals delivered, laundry picked up, etc. - outsource as much as you can.  Even with student loan debt, your salary should afford you some room to throw money at the problem.  It can help.  And if you keep daycare and don't switch to the nanny, the cost difference could cover these extra expenses.

Before considering a reduced hours schedule, I would do a lot of research about how part-time schedules work at your firm and whether it works for your practice area.  I tried going 80% with my first kid and it wasn't worth it.  At my firm, they paid you 80% during the year and if at the end of the year you worked more than 80% of the average of your class year, they paid you the difference.  I worked 110% that year.  So I basically just got deferred comp with no interest.  However, there are some practice groups where I suppose it could work.  I was a litigator and it's not really possible IMO.  Also, maybe firms are more progressive on this issue now, but for me the mommy-track perception was real for those on reduced hours.

For those telling you to quit, if you want to quit of course you can. But it's really too early to tell if you need to and you want to set yourself up for the next job.  Good luck!

[Anonymous]

The good news is bedtime won’t always be 6:30. More reason that working 7-12 is not sustainable. Did you say how many daylight hours you work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am now a government lawyer but spent a decade in biglaw, and had 2 kids during that time.  You do not need to quit, and you can do this!

Definitely switch to drop offs and have your husband handle pick ups.  I was lucky - I had a husband who worked but with a much more flexible schedule.  Both kids were in daycare and my husband almost always did pickups.  That was key.  In my experience, most folks in biglaw don't come in early (although I think people come in earlier in DC than NYC), so even if you go to work super early no one will know and instead will see you leaving at 5.  It doesn't matter what the junior associates think but when more senior people come in late, you will inevitably get emails in the afternoon that you have to deal with by the end of the day.  Five pm is just too early.  I've been a government lawyer for over 5 years, and I still don't leave at 5 (I guess many do, but I've never had a position where that's an option).  

This may be unpopular, but as others have noted you shouldn't worry too much about missing bedtime.  You should plan to leave early-ish on Friday nights and spend weekends with the baby, but Monday - Thursday let your husband handle bedtime so you can get your work done.  

Longer term, think about moving close to work if that's at all an option.  It took me close to an hour and half to get to work with daycare drop off  and it would have been great to live closer.  So if you are renting, I'd think about moving closer.  Also, and you probably are already doing this, but do all your grocery and baby shopping online, hire a cleaning person, have meals delivered, laundry picked up, etc. - outsource as much as you can.  Even with student loan debt, your salary should afford you some room to throw money at the problem.  It can help.  And if you keep daycare and don't switch to the nanny, the cost difference could cover these extra expenses.

Before considering a reduced hours schedule, I would do a lot of research about how part-time schedules work at your firm and whether it works for your practice area.  I tried going 80% with my first kid and it wasn't worth it.  At my firm, they paid you 80% during the year and if at the end of the year you worked more than 80% of the average of your class year, they paid you the difference.  I worked 110% that year.  So I basically just got deferred comp with no interest.  However, there are some practice groups where I suppose it could work.  I was a litigator and it's not really possible IMO.  Also, maybe firms are more progressive on this issue now, but for me the mommy-track perception was real for those on reduced hours.

For those telling you to quit, if you want to quit of course you can. But it's really too early to tell if you need to and you want to set yourself up for the next job.  Good luck!

I think you responded to another poster while I was posting this, so obviously disregard moving advice - you already have a good commute!

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure why people are saying “it gets better.” I am 10+ years in and the problems you are complaining about don’t really get better. (For me, its gotten worse—the only people more overworked than senior associates are junior partners.). Its not an issue of the kids needing supervision—its more about the number of hours in the day and as they age, their needs are much more specific and less likely to be fulfilled by a hired professional. So i think its more about making sure you are maximizing your time. Eliminate things like driving around for pickups if possible. Figure out how to make billed hours = worked hours or as close as possible. Outsource whatever you can. Also, ive decided that i can have two of the following three things: kids, lawyer job, personal life and interests. I view my kids as my break from my job and my job as my break from the kids. They are each “me” time in that i chose them.
Everyone is different however and i do know people who manage to do it all and still train for marathons. Dont ask me how.

[Anonymous]

Don’t quit. I am part time big law now but was full time when I just had one kid and a husband that traveled quite a bit. It really does get easier. I also suggest picking 2 nights to stay late to catch up on work and leaving at a reasonable time the other nights. If you can, only do pick ups twice a week. I had a nanny or nanny share until my kids were school age and found it invaluable. Finally ignore the 5-7 pm emails esp if you are responsive outside of those hours. For all people know you could be on other calls and emails during that time. Basically if people aren’t calling you, it’s not a true emergency.

Finally think about the bigger picture in terms of your exit. I agree that the sweet spot for finding a good job post big law is between years 6-8. But try to get some specialized experience rather than just being a general litigator. Check out jobs on goinhouse to get a sense of the kids of skills and experience jobs look for

[Anonymous]

Spend your time banking every penny you can right now. Switch to an in house position with flexibility when kids start elementary school. When you and your husband are playing Rock Paper Scissors over who stays home on a snow day, that’s when the s—- gets real. Daycares rarely close. Your kid will never remember whether or not you were there or not for bedtime at 6 months. You will, but they won’t. They will remember forever that you didn’t come to the booster-thon or the basketball game or that Linda down the street said something snarky about you never being available to drive carpool to swim practice or that they couldn’t join swim team in summer because they have to go to camp instead of swim team practices that are designed for people with an at home parent.

I worked for a boutique firm with big law hours until kindergarten and then I quit and started my own firm. Never looked back and now I have near total flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would your husband consider staying home?

This. Nearly all the men I knew in biglaw with kids had stay at home spouses. A couple women did. The rest were either excruciatingly miserable or quit. I saw the writing on the wall and got out before I had kids. And it's hard enough to juggle young kids with my relatively reasonable government job. I really don't know how anyone with a working spouse does it at a law firm.

Which doesn't help you, OP. I'm sorry, but my advice is to either see if your husband can scale back/stay home, or start looking for the exit for yourself. It's no way to live and it's unlikely to get better. My kids are 6 and 2.5 and they are now old enough to notice and be upset if I'm not home.

[Anonymous]

OP. No, my husband doesn't want to stay home. He's an attorney as well so I get not wanting a gap, and honestly I'm hoping he makes the switch to private practice at some point.

For those who do a couple of late nights - do you find it challenging to work straight through? I feel like my mental stamina is not what it was. Though that may be from not sleeping as much as I once did . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I’m in biglaw with two kids. I had my first in law school so I’ve never known it any other way.

A nanny won’t necessarily make it better especially since your baby is doing well. Nannies have sick days, vacations, and also a quitting time just like a closing daycare.

I personally can’t leave at 5 so I don’t do pickup. My workflow just would never allow that. I have an au pair but it sounds like your DH can do it.

IME law firms are relatively chill about you coming in late. I’d keep using your mornings like you do but stay later so you’re not up til midnight every night.

Juniors should not be giving you shit. Not all firms have that kind of defective culture. I have moved firms twice making sure my culture is working for me. Just because you want to leave your firm doesn’t mean you need to leave biglaw and the paycheck.

I agree with PP that a nanny might not be easier. There is a lot of work and uncertainty managing many nannies that you wouldn’t have with daycare. I also agree your dh should do pickup.

My kids are now 5 and 4 and they have been in daycare throughout. My husband works for the gov so he can do pickups and is generally more flexible and can be the default parent most of the time. I try hard to get home for dinner and bedtime and succeed often. Those days I log on once they go down. If I miss bedtime, then I usually stay late to plow through as much as possible to increase the odds of making it home the next day.

Don’t listen to folks who say you have to quit. There are people who make it and thrive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. No, my husband doesn't want to stay home. He's an attorney as well so I get not wanting a gap, and honestly I'm hoping he makes the switch to private practice at some point.

For those who do a couple of late nights - do you find it challenging to work straight through? I feel like my mental stamina is not what it was. Though that may be from not sleeping as much as I once did . . .

I’ve actually found it easier to do late nights as the office rather than logging on at home. You don’t have to fight to gear back up after bedtime or dinner.

[Anonymous]

Big law just isn't worth it. Have an exit strategy, get a great salary with 50% of the hours. What you are doing now is digging an early grave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. No, my husband doesn't want to stay home. He's an attorney as well so I get not wanting a gap, and honestly I'm hoping he makes the switch to private practice at some point.

For those who do a couple of late nights - do you find it challenging to work straight through? I feel like my mental stamina is not what it was. Though that may be from not sleeping as much as I once did . . .

I’ve actually found it easier to do late nights as the office rather than logging on at home. You don’t have to fight to gear back up after bedtime or dinner.

SO true. I’ve survived by honestly being pretty brutal about giving myself the time and space I needed during the more demanding times. More than once I’ve gotten hotel rooms to avoid commuting, get a proper night’s sleep, and not get bogged down by domestic crap. I’m not saying once a week, but I’ll do it in the middle of a big brief or before an oral argument.