Is DH trying to keep me down, or is he being reasonable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very likely school will have no benefit for you. The time and energy and money you put into it will be better invested elsewhere.

An education is never a waste of time

In the real world, it can be. Would I rather be sitting in classes every night to get my master's, or putting my kids to bed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very likely school will have no benefit for you. The time and energy and money you put into it will be better invested elsewhere.

An education is never a waste of time

In the real world, it can be. Would I rather be sitting in classes every night to get my master's, or putting my kids to bed?

Doesn't sound to me like OP lives in the real world. She wants to go back to school for a degree that is most likely unnecessary when she has young children because she wants to "start a business" but doesn't have any concrete plans to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very likely school will have no benefit for you. The time and energy and money you put into it will be better invested elsewhere.

This. I'd network and figure out exactly what kind of business you are planning on. Write a business plan. Maybe take a community college course. Running your own business is a lot of time in the beginning and es kids are also a time commitment with scrutinizes and driving and homework etc.

This is what she said she wanted to do. Wouldn't hiring someone to do her books, or write a decent business plan cost as least as much as a couple of classes to teach her how to do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's odd that your initial reaction is that your DH is trying to "hold you down"... Why are you with someone that just wants to hold you down and keep you in the kitchen? I'm sure there is an angry DCUM feminist somewhere waiting to give you a lashing.

My husband said similar comments when I balked at spending $150k on grad school (MBA). This was when he was pretty much a drunk and I knew wouldn't take it seriously. It also wasn't necessary for his career. He viewed it as me holding him back. I just thought it wasn't practical and didn't make financial sense. The 150k would be better invested in the market. He eventually won the argument and is in school. Still don't think it was worth it but not worth getting divorced over.

[Anonymous]

If your interest is on the creative side I'd focus my time and energy on what the creative business idea is. Business skills won't help if the idea doesn't have merit. There are a ton of people who can help you with the business stuff. I'm pretty sure Steve Jobs didn't have an MBA!

[Anonymous]

I think he's being controlling and creepy. Honestly, this would be a huge red flag for me. It's one thing to say "we can't afford for you to do an expensive grad school program right now," but that's not what he's saying. He's also obviously not opposed to higher education on principle, since he availed himself of it.

[Anonymous]

OP, you can take basic accounting/finance courses for free on Khan academy. There's an app you can put on your phone or iPad, so you don't even need to be at a computer.

[Anonymous]

got a 4 year degree in 6 years (doh!) minor in business started a small company based on my degree.

the business classes were nice..., but not really needed. the classes were survey type classes, with a broad brush strokes.

I assume the business you want to start is based on something your already know or something you already do. accounting programs like Quickbooks will be able to tell you if you are being profitable. No business classes will be able to tell you how to run your particular company.

if you end with employees thats where you need some people management type classes and seminars (IE how to handle people) but you probably won't be at this stage for a while.

I sold the business and now work for a university where my BS is not what I do primarily, the minor in business is useless, and my ability to manage 20 union FE is my primary focus. I manage people who are doing the work I learned to do which my BS is based on.

There is such a huge amount of online type classes, and books, such that you'd still have the flexibility to be at home and be available.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, OP, I find this whole thread quite incredible. I am amazed at the number of people who think you should put your own interests aside or somehow invest less in yourself than you invested in your husband.

There is something that I learned after years of growing up in a family with a verbally abusive mother and 1 physically abusive and 1 emotionally abusive long term relationship, and that is this: One part of the dance that occurs in abusive relationships is that the non-dominant partner is constantly assessing and thinking about whether the dominant partner's point of view or behavior is somehow justifiable. While I'm not victim-blaming, this is the behavior that the victim often has - instead of standing their ground about their needs and wants and acting in their own interests and drawing and enforcing clear boundaries, they worry about what their partner thinks, wants, needs. When I read your post, that is what really strikes me; you are more concerned with what your husband thinks about what you should do and what he will and won't allow you to do, than what you yourself think, want and need. Your husband doesn't have veto power over your life. If you want to go to school, apply, register and either get a loan or write the check from your joint account, and tell your husband when you will be gone and discuss how you or he will either provide or pay for child care while you're gone. If he objects so much that he gets angry or divorces you over this, then I think you really have to ask yourself why you are with him and whether it's wise and healthy for you to stay in such a relationship.

The bottom line is that you spent 15 years supporting your husband's career aspirations both financially and by staying at home to take care of your kids. Your marriage ought to be a partnership where both people's interests, needs and aspirations are met. This can be done concurrently or sequentially. In your case, you seem to be doing it sequentially, given the amount of time your family's efforts have been focused on your husband's career. IMO, your husband owes you at least as much educational development as he himself got out of your partnership, both in terms of time, money and family responsibilities. If you now wanted to go to school and be a surgeon, I would expect him to support you 100%.

You have an equal right to decide how any money brought into the family by your husband should be spent, and that includes on you and your educational aspirations, whether they can be justified as necessary professionally or financially.

You have an exclusive right to decide how you will spend your time, and that includes whether it is looking after your kids full time or going back to education or work and asking that your husband spend on childcare an amount proportionate to your 2 incomes (i.e. if he makes 80% of your total family income, he is spending 80% of his total income on the total amount of childcare necessary to continue his professional life, including any care needed at non-traditional times due to a surgeon's schedule).

Given your husband's desire to control your professional and educational path, I would be very hesitant to be a SAHM. You will find it very hard to get off that path. You should be having serious discussions about a post-nuptial agreement that would detail what you get in the event of a marital split, especially if you are being expected to stay at home, give up any educational opportunities or forgo career or business opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's up with this misogynistic stuff? It's one thing to push your daughter to play sports or like science over dressing in pink all the time, but does it go beyond that with you or your daughter(s)? And is he aware of that tone from his family of origin?

Separately, if you find you miss working in some capacity, go back to work and get a nanny or au pair! Everyone will be fine.

STEM PhD (and only technical woman on my 40 person SW team). I think it is a mild form of misogyny to call "girly" things like pink and dolls etc silly or a waste of time. I was the girl-iest little girl you could imagine, with more dolls than anyone I know. I also built and launched model rockets in elementary school, and I've literally got a degree in rocket science. Valuing traditionally masculine things as being more substantive or important that traditionally feminine things is sending the message that what's feminine is somehow lesser. It's not. And it is a warning sign of control and anti-female bias if someone feels very strongly about forcing someone not to be girl-y. It's also likely to backfire, from a practical perspective.

OP, I'm fairly surprised that the overwhelming number of responses suggest you shouldn't take classes or are somehow flighty. You supported your family through much of your DH's schooling, so I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that you're irresponsible or don't understand the value of money. Also, I think that people learn things in different ways, and some people do well in structured courses. It doesn't sound like you want to go get another degree, you just want to fill some skill gaps...and maybe even expand your horizons. You don't say it, but given how specific you are about accounting your years in school vs. your DH's, maybe you feel like there is education you've missed out on or that he looks down on you for not having an advanced degree? I don't think it's a good idea to get an advanced degree just because, but taking some classes to help you do something different with your skills, or even just to learn about something new, is not a bad thing. As many have pointed out, I would explore online courses or the offerings at your local community college...the latter might feel better to you since it gives you more adult interaction.

And do keep an eye on your DH's controlling tendencies. I'm a big believer in therapy to talk through these kinds of feeligns, but if that's not for you...find an outlet to explore your feeligns around his treatment of you. Justified or not, you are not feeling good about it...and that's not going to change unless you allow yourself to understand why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, OP, I find this whole thread quite incredible. I am amazed at the number of people who think you should put your own interests aside or somehow invest less in yourself than you invested in your husband.

There is something that I learned after years of growing up in a family with a verbally abusive mother and 1 physically abusive and 1 emotionally abusive long term relationship, and that is this: One part of the dance that occurs in abusive relationships is that the non-dominant partner is constantly assessing and thinking about whether the dominant partner's point of view or behavior is somehow justifiable. While I'm not victim-blaming, this is the behavior that the victim often has - instead of standing their ground about their needs and wants and acting in their own interests and drawing and enforcing clear boundaries, they worry about what their partner thinks, wants, needs. When I read your post, that is what really strikes me; you are more concerned with what your husband thinks about what you should do and what he will and won't allow you to do, than what you yourself think, want and need. Your husband doesn't have veto power over your life. If you want to go to school, apply, register and either get a loan or write the check from your joint account, and tell your husband when you will be gone and discuss how you or he will either provide or pay for child care while you're gone. If he objects so much that he gets angry or divorces you over this, then I think you really have to ask yourself why you are with him and whether it's wise and healthy for you to stay in such a relationship.

The bottom line is that you spent 15 years supporting your husband's career aspirations both financially and by staying at home to take care of your kids. Your marriage ought to be a partnership where both people's interests, needs and aspirations are met. This can be done concurrently or sequentially. In your case, you seem to be doing it sequentially, given the amount of time your family's efforts have been focused on your husband's career. IMO, your husband owes you at least as much educational development as he himself got out of your partnership, both in terms of time, money and family responsibilities. If you now wanted to go to school and be a surgeon, I would expect him to support you 100%.

You have an equal right to decide how any money brought into the family by your husband should be spent, and that includes on you and your educational aspirations, whether they can be justified as necessary professionally or financially.

You have an exclusive right to decide how you will spend your time, and that includes whether it is looking after your kids full time or going back to education or work and asking that your husband spend on childcare an amount proportionate to your 2 incomes (i.e. if he makes 80% of your total family income, he is spending 80% of his total income on the total amount of childcare necessary to continue his professional life, including any care needed at non-traditional times due to a surgeon's schedule).

Given your husband's desire to control your professional and educational path, I would be very hesitant to be a SAHM. You will find it very hard to get off that path. You should be having serious discussions about a post-nuptial agreement that would detail what you get in the event of a marital split, especially if you are being expected to stay at home, give up any educational opportunities or forgo career or business opportunities.

I think instead there are a number of posters who may have themselves spent a lot on education and don't think the ROI is there. Keep in mind Op admitted she doesn't really like working! That's all!

It makes sense her husband wants a say in her professional life and education. Going back to school is most likely expensive and will disrupt their family life significantly.

[Anonymous]

Guarantee you OP would spend a lot on graduate school and either not start the business or her business wouldn't take off. Her husband probably is fully aware of this. There are most likely things in the past OP has pursued and then quit or changed her mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, OP, I find this whole thread quite incredible. I am amazed at the number of people who think you should put your own interests aside or somehow invest less in yourself than you invested in your husband.

There is something that I learned after years of growing up in a family with a verbally abusive mother and 1 physically abusive and 1 emotionally abusive long term relationship, and that is this: One part of the dance that occurs in abusive relationships is that the non-dominant partner is constantly assessing and thinking about whether the dominant partner's point of view or behavior is somehow justifiable. While I'm not victim-blaming, this is the behavior that the victim often has - instead of standing their ground about their needs and wants and acting in their own interests and drawing and enforcing clear boundaries, they worry about what their partner thinks, wants, needs. When I read your post, that is what really strikes me; you are more concerned with what your husband thinks about what you should do and what he will and won't allow you to do, than what you yourself think, want and need. Your husband doesn't have veto power over your life. If you want to go to school, apply, register and either get a loan or write the check from your joint account, and tell your husband when you will be gone and discuss how you or he will either provide or pay for child care while you're gone. If he objects so much that he gets angry or divorces you over this, then I think you really have to ask yourself why you are with him and whether it's wise and healthy for you to stay in such a relationship.

The bottom line is that you spent 15 years supporting your husband's career aspirations both financially and by staying at home to take care of your kids. Your marriage ought to be a partnership where both people's interests, needs and aspirations are met. This can be done concurrently or sequentially. In your case, you seem to be doing it sequentially, given the amount of time your family's efforts have been focused on your husband's career. IMO, your husband owes you at least as much educational development as he himself got out of your partnership, both in terms of time, money and family responsibilities. If you now wanted to go to school and be a surgeon, I would expect him to support you 100%.

You have an equal right to decide how any money brought into the family by your husband should be spent, and that includes on you and your educational aspirations, whether they can be justified as necessary professionally or financially.

You have an exclusive right to decide how you will spend your time, and that includes whether it is looking after your kids full time or going back to education or work and asking that your husband spend on childcare an amount proportionate to your 2 incomes (i.e. if he makes 80% of your total family income, he is spending 80% of his total income on the total amount of childcare necessary to continue his professional life, including any care needed at non-traditional times due to a surgeon's schedule).

Given your husband's desire to control your professional and educational path, I would be very hesitant to be a SAHM. You will find it very hard to get off that path. You should be having serious discussions about a post-nuptial agreement that would detail what you get in the event of a marital split, especially if you are being expected to stay at home, give up any educational opportunities or forgo career or business opportunities.

I think this bit is pretty insightful, and probably should be op's biggest takeaway. It sounds like op is exploring taking some classes, which is a pretty low commitment, low financial investment. In my marriage, my dh might not think it's the best idea, but if it's not a big time or financial impact I wouldn't not do it because of that. There does seem to be a balance of power issue going on here.

[Anonymous]

I think it's not unusual for some men to have very different wishes for their wives vs. their daughters.

OP I would got back to work PT when you are raedy (kids in elementary) in a capacity where you can learn the things you don't know. So for example, being an AP/AR assistant to a bookkeeper or Controller. Learn as much from that person as you can. Understand that initially the pay will be low since you don't know the topic.

You don't need schooling to run a business. My degree was in History and now I run a 20 million dollar accounting department. I also managed all operations of other small (million or less) businesses. It's common sense. If you can balance a check book, you can do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guarantee you OP would spend a lot on graduate school and either not start the business or her business wouldn't take off. Her husband probably is fully aware of this. There are most likely things in the past OP has pursued and then quit or changed her mind.

+1 The question is, are we getting the full story?

For one, I find it odd that OP thinks her husband is against women because he doesn't want his daughter to buy in to female stereotypes. I actually think he's right. He is specifically not fixating on her looks being what gives her worth so that she doesn't grow up thinking the most important thing about her is how she looks. I wish more parents of daughters would do that.

The fact that OP is using that as an example to prove her husband's misogyny makes me kind of doubt her credibility. I think that is an example of recognizing that too many girls grow up with heavy pressure to be "girly girls" and heavily invested in their looks because the most attention they got as little girls was around how "pretty" they looked.

As for the schooling, I can't tell whether OP is saying he says no or he doesn't advise it. At the end of the day, OP can do what she wants. If she wants to enroll in school, she can do so. The financial aspect is another story, and there really isn't enough information to get that picture.

The fact that OP's husband is completely fine with her starting a business tells me that he's not as controlling as PPs think. He doesn't seem to have an issue with OP doing things on her own. It sounds to me like he just thinks the going back to school part is a waste of money -- money that could potentially be used to start the business (because most businesses require some upfront investment/costs, which OP seems kind of oblivious to, which I think is why some PPs are suggesting she might be flaky).