how could I have handled this better -- found self in argument with both DS, 3 and DH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"DH sits straight up and says "take your hands off me now." I pause in shock because now both DS and DH are angrily rejecting any attempt at physical contact with me -- DH repeats himself. "take your hands off me right now. we don't get physical with each other and you've just crossed a boundary in our relationship."

seriously, what the hell? Does your husband regularly over react about stuff like this? I would be shocked if my DH said that to me. Your DH sounds like a huge asshole

I feel for people who think this is normal and justified. Wow what a way to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here with go with the typical DCUM hypocrisy, OP. If your husband had put his hands on you and you asked him to remove them and he didn't wouldn't you be upset? Half of DCUM would consider that abuse. How is it even a question whether or not you did something wrong there?

+1 In addition, half of DCUM is staunchly against forcing any kind of physical touch with kids (i.e. grandma's hugs, grandpa's kisses, etc.) so if your kid tells you not to touch him you should take heed.

100% this.

I don't view your DH's rubbing DS's back as giving into the manipulation for the purpose of throwing it in your face or anything. I sort of am guessing he gave in and did it because everyone was losing their minds and he figured it would get DS to chill out. Instead, you escalated it worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here with go with the typical DCUM hypocrisy, OP. If your husband had put his hands on you and you asked him to remove them and he didn't wouldn't you be upset? Half of DCUM would consider that abuse. How is it even a question whether or not you did something wrong there?

+1 In addition, half of DCUM is staunchly against forcing any kind of physical touch with kids (i.e. grandma's hugs, grandpa's kisses, etc.) so if your kid tells you not to touch him you should take heed.

100% this.

I don't view your DH's rubbing DS's back as giving into the manipulation for the purpose of throwing it in your face or anything. I sort of am guessing he gave in and did it because everyone was losing their minds and he figured it would get DS to chill out. Instead, you escalated it worse.

The issue is not husband's rubbing the neck but his totally insane comment to his wife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here with go with the typical DCUM hypocrisy, OP. If your husband had put his hands on you and you asked him to remove them and he didn't wouldn't you be upset? Half of DCUM would consider that abuse. How is it even a question whether or not you did something wrong there?

+1 In addition, half of DCUM is staunchly against forcing any kind of physical touch with kids (i.e. grandma's hugs, grandpa's kisses, etc.) so if your kid tells you not to touch him you should take heed.

100% this.

I don't view your DH's rubbing DS's back as giving into the manipulation for the purpose of throwing it in your face or anything. I sort of am guessing he gave in and did it because everyone was losing their minds and he figured it would get DS to chill out. Instead, you escalated it worse.

The issue is not husband's rubbing the neck but his totally insane comment to his wife.

+1

There are two issues here: how OP is relating to her kid, which is childish and needs to change, and how OP's husband reacted to being touched by her, which is batshit crazy.

This is some normal parenting stuff (child showing preference for dad, possibly hurting mom's feelings) that's setting off what appear to be pretty serious fault lines in the existing marriage. Get thee to a counselor, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here with go with the typical DCUM hypocrisy, OP. If your husband had put his hands on you and you asked him to remove them and he didn't wouldn't you be upset? Half of DCUM would consider that abuse. How is it even a question whether or not you did something wrong there?

+1 In addition, half of DCUM is staunchly against forcing any kind of physical touch with kids (i.e. grandma's hugs, grandpa's kisses, etc.) so if your kid tells you not to touch him you should take heed.

100% this.

I don't view your DH's rubbing DS's back as giving into the manipulation for the purpose of throwing it in your face or anything. I sort of am guessing he gave in and did it because everyone was losing their minds and he figured it would get DS to chill out. Instead, you escalated it worse.

The issue is not husband's rubbing the neck but his totally insane comment to his wife.

+1

There are two issues here: how OP is relating to her kid, which is childish and needs to change, and how OP's husband reacted to being touched by her, which is batshit crazy.

This is some normal parenting stuff (child showing preference for dad, possibly hurting mom's feelings) that's setting off what appear to be pretty serious fault lines in the existing marriage. Get thee to a counselor, OP.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

any recs for a family therapist?

[Anonymous]

I can't even with this thread. We have the OP over here throwing out unwanted touches and you all are concerned about the way her DH spoke to her after he asked her not to touch him and she refused? Amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:thanks to everyone for responses. re 11:10's third point -- when I'm rubbing my child's back and he immediately says "I dont want YOU to rub my back...then turns and says Daddy will you rub my back?"

The appropriate response is for DH to gamely say sure and then for me to exit stage left?

Yes.

This happens like 3 times a week in our house. Exact same scenario - we are laying down before bed and after reading we usually snuggle a little. Most of the time my 3 year old will not snuggle with her dad and will immediately turn to me and ask to snuggle. And i do. And my husband sometimes rolls his eyes behind her back but he never gets upset about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't even with this thread. We have the OP over here throwing out unwanted touches and you all are concerned about the way her DH spoke to her after he asked her not to touch him and she refused? Amazing.

You, like, literally can't even?

It's not amazing except to people who are used to dysfunctional relationships.

[Anonymous]

Re: the touching and crossing boundaries, I think some of this can be contextual.

My DH and I were 4 hours into an airplane ride and my son started getting air sick. It was super stressful because DS was sobbing and obviously having a hard time, and while DH was holding the airsick bag for my son, I tried to give him a sympathetic rub on the back. He snapped at me and pulled away.

I never thought anything of it past that moment. It was obviously a very stressful situation and he didn't want to be touched in that way. He's incredibly affectionate otherwise, and has never had a response like that in the past.

I never once got angry about it or thought we needed family counseling. Sometimes a stressful situation is just that. We're not our best, and we don't always have the reserves to deal with things patiently and perfectly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: the touching and crossing boundaries, I think some of this can be contextual.

My DH and I were 4 hours into an airplane ride and my son started getting air sick. It was super stressful because DS was sobbing and obviously having a hard time, and while DH was holding the airsick bag for my son, I tried to give him a sympathetic rub on the back. He snapped at me and pulled away.

I never thought anything of it past that moment. It was obviously a very stressful situation and he didn't want to be touched in that way. He's incredibly affectionate otherwise, and has never had a response like that in the past.

I never once got angry about it or thought we needed family counseling. Sometimes a stressful situation is just that. We're not our best, and we don't always have the reserves to deal with things patiently and perfectly.

But did your DH demand an apology from you the next day for touching him without permission? OP's husband seems a bit more unhinged than just "sometimes we need space and don't handle it perfectly," which I agree is true for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Second, "He insists I owe him an apology for not immediately removing my hand from his arm when he asked me to do so -- I am frankly just shocked that I apparently need to ask my husband to touch his arm" You do owe him an apology. It isn't that you need permission, it's that he asked you to stop and you didn't. Whatever the reason (you being "appalled," which we'll get to in a minute) he's right. Your formulation of the situation is like your kid grabbing a cookie, you telling him to drop it, him not doing it, you getting mad, and him saying, "I didn't know I needed permission to have a cookie." Not the issue at all.

THIS.

Not just the DH. A 4 year old who has opinions about how he is touched or who is touching him isn't "manipulating". He's asserting his right to autonomy in his own body.

If your son doesn't want a hug or back rub from you, you don't hug or rub him. The fact that he wants a hug or a back rub from someone else is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: the touching and crossing boundaries, I think some of this can be contextual.

My DH and I were 4 hours into an airplane ride and my son started getting air sick. It was super stressful because DS was sobbing and obviously having a hard time, and while DH was holding the airsick bag for my son, I tried to give him a sympathetic rub on the back. He snapped at me and pulled away.

I never thought anything of it past that moment. It was obviously a very stressful situation and he didn't want to be touched in that way. He's incredibly affectionate otherwise, and has never had a response like that in the past.

I never once got angry about it or thought we needed family counseling. Sometimes a stressful situation is just that. We're not our best, and we don't always have the reserves to deal with things patiently and perfectly.

But did your DH demand an apology from you the next day for touching him without permission? OP's husband seems a bit more unhinged than just "sometimes we need space and don't handle it perfectly," which I agree is true for everyone.

No, because after he pulled away I would have been mean or crazy I didn't try to touch him again. He had clearly indicated he didn't want to be touched in that moment.

In the OP's case, the apology was for not respecting his wishes, not for the original touch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: the touching and crossing boundaries, I think some of this can be contextual.

My DH and I were 4 hours into an airplane ride and my son started getting air sick. It was super stressful because DS was sobbing and obviously having a hard time, and while DH was holding the airsick bag for my son, I tried to give him a sympathetic rub on the back. He snapped at me and pulled away.

I never thought anything of it past that moment. It was obviously a very stressful situation and he didn't want to be touched in that way. He's incredibly affectionate otherwise, and has never had a response like that in the past.

I never once got angry about it or thought we needed family counseling. Sometimes a stressful situation is just that. We're not our best, and we don't always have the reserves to deal with things patiently and perfectly.

but this is very different from what OP's husband did. he didn't snap and pull back. that's an instinctive, emotional reaction. to the contrary, OP's husband lectured her about inappropriate touching and crossing boundaries. that is just psycho. normal people don't approach intimate relationships in such a legalistic way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't even with this thread. We have the OP over here throwing out unwanted touches and you all are concerned about the way her DH spoke to her after he asked her not to touch him and she refused? Amazing.

You, like, literally can't even?

It's not amazing except to people who are used to dysfunctional relationships.

+1 I'm finding it hard to even fathom being in a relationship where touching my DH (or my DW if I was a guy) and having the person say that I had 'crossed a physical boundary in our relationship' and to 'remove my hand right this second.' Unless there was physical abuse in the past and you all have set up very strict boundaries for this reason this is off the chain. I can't imagine the rest of your relationship is loving and supportive if this is how a relatively harmless touching interaction goes.

And other PP I think snapping in the moment is different. And it is unlikley to involve such intentionally cold and clinical language. It would be more of a 'ugh get off of me jeez' or something. Not this like, the way I would talk to a guy at a bar I thought was crossing the line or something.