3.5 and 4 year olds not potty trained...how did that happen?

[Anonymous]

Why do you care OP? Do you really sit around wasting your time thinking about this? Are you one of those people who spends their entire day thinking of ways to judge people? Your life must be pretty unfulfilled if this is all you can come up with.

My son wasn't trained until 3.5 for pee and one month after turning 4 for poop. It wasn't for lack of trying. We tried everything. He has some delays and I fully believe this contributed to it. Our pediatrician was not concerned. Believe me, I would have gladly been done with diapers and adult size poop a lot sooner. Do you really think people WANT their kids to potty train so late? No, they don't. So stop judging, mind your own business and worry about your own kids.

[Anonymous]

You're a first time mother to an infant, OP? You don't say!

And you sound like a crappy nanny, FWIW.

[Anonymous]

Lazy and/or clueless parents. All five of ours were potty trained well before they turned three. My girls were potty trained before two. I'm not super mom and my kids aren't exceptionally brilliant. When mine were little they couldn't even go into a three year old preschool program until they were reliably potty trained. Everyone potty trained their kids before preschool.

[Anonymous]

Grown adults who spend their energy judging other people whose choices are not hurting them and whose circumstances they know nothing about--how does that happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:For me it is because I wanted them to learn to read first so they can read on the toilet. We're a zero screen time house.

then how are you sending this message?

^^pretty sure that was perfect satire.

Seriously, though the above was satire, your child should not be able to read the words on the package of diapers before they are potty trained.

I'll answer, OP -- if the child is developmentally average, there is no reason other than lack of follow-through on the part of the parents. This is why children are often potty-trained at daycare, yet aren't on the weekends. Diapers now are so easy (don't get me started on pull-ups), that it is easier for many parents to just put one on the kid and throw a spare in a bag, rather than make sure the child has used the toilet before outings and has one available at all time on outings. When cloth diapers were likely to leak and make a mess, potty-training was more attractive to parents. The new diapers rarely leak.

I am a very experienced daycare parent and I've literally never seen a child who is potty trained at daycare and not on the weekends. I'm not even sure how that is possible.

What does that even mean? A very experienced daycare parent?

Anyway I know of several people whose kids are potty trained at daycare but the parents didn't keep it up and the child would regress/not be potty trained on weekends.

A parent who's very involved in the center and has had two kids there a total of 7 years. Literally never heard of this happening. Once a kid is trained, they don't WANT to use diapers, especially if they're in a social setting with other kids their age who are (this all assumes kids are neurotypical). Are you saying these parents WANT their kids in diapers?

Sometimes they do, for reasons people here have already mentioned. It's easier. Also your claim about how once a kid is trained they don't want to use diapers is not universally true. Might be true for your two children - good for them! - but it's certainly not true for one of my 3. Stop making generalizations about things based on two datapoints. Goodness.

[Anonymous]

If you are asking individuals, you will get answers specific to those individuals... A lot of answers will be "because he just wasn't ready" (then again, when you are not aware you can start at 1 or even earlier, plus you use stay dry diapers, it's no wonder "ready" doesn't seem to happen for many kids until after individuation stages and 3.5 or later). But on a thread like this, you will get a disproportionate number of self-selected people with medical and developmental issues, because they (understandably) feel defensive. I don't think they're in the majority among untrained 3.5+-year-olds... But then again, there are more of them in that group than any other group, for obvious reasons. Like most fat people are not fat because of PCOS, but most people with PCOS are fat, and thus fat people do disproportionately have PCOS... So if they say they have it, they're probably not lying (ahem, judgmental perfect parents on this thread).

Stepping away from individual answers... the more general societal answer is multifactorial, but number one is super-dry disposable diapers. The average age of completing PT was a full year+ earlier (21 months vs 36 months) 50 years ago. With 36 months being the current average (33 for girls and 39 for boys), there are definitely going to be some not done until 42 (3.5) or 48 (4). This is even aside from SN. I mean, 3.5 is literally only 3 months later than average for boys now.

Disposable diapers do two things-- they disconnect peeing from feeling wet, and, more significantly, they are much "easier" for parents to deal with, which means much lower motivation to PT. 100 years ago, average PT age was even lower than it was 50 years ago because washing cloth diapers was even harder (no machine)... But also because it was easier for young toddlers to take themselves over to a corner of the field or whatever (and no wall-to-wall carpet in cities, so easier to deal with messes even there-- thus people were less squeamish about PT 1-year-olds-- they didn't expect perfection right away).

Other factors IMO include smaller family sizes (less witnessing of older siblings in the potty, less peer pressure) and a certain amount of diaper company propaganda. Not in a totally conspiratorial way, but, well, look at pull ups. Let's just say that even to the extent it's not conscious and cynical, diaper companies certainly aren't looking to REDUCE the number of diapers you use. And this trickled into child development advice, even though it doesn't have a biological basis.

I think, too, and as alluded to by others, there is a great window before 18 months, and at the latest, before 30 months. And people now (erroneously) don't think it's even possible (especially on the earlier end). So for most, they miss that window(s), and one of 3 things happens (assuming no SN).

1) They train at 2.5 or 3 and it goes easily-- or they tough it out and are at least done by 3 one way or the other. Probably not the majority, but a good percentage-- even close to half.

2) They try training at that age and it's hell (no kidding-- seems like a miserable age to try and train IMO) and they give up-- or it only "takes" by 3.5 or later. Many of these vow to wait until 3.5 next time... Or start much earlier.

3) They are told it will be much easier if they wait until 3.5 or so, they do wait, and it often is easier... Or they end up with major problems, especially with poop (see many "my 4 yo will only poop in a pull-up" threads).

So... There you go.

Another important point is that, as the average age of PT climbs, so does the age peer pressure and kids being motivated to "train themselves" sets in. I was reading a well-regarded (still used) development book written in the 70s and it told parents not to pressure kids with PT, that if they will just wait until 2 yo, the child will "practically train themselves." Now people say 3 or 3.5. So it may be less developmental and more a matter of expectation and norms.

[Anonymous]

Two kids, two years apart. Started to train both at about age two. DC 1 trained at 3 years 4 months (that's right - we did it for over a year before he would pee, and poop in the potty and stay dry all night....). DC 2 trained over a weekend.

[Anonymous]

Pediatricians are never concerned so stop telling people your doctor said it's ok that your four year old can't use a toilet. Your ped does not want to tell you that it's you and not your kid because that's awkward.

[Anonymous]

can't believe anyone care when other people's kids piss in a pot.

OP, get some real problems

[Anonymous]

I also think a lot of it is lazy parenting. However, a factor is our lifestyles not. When I was a baby ( 40 years ago) we stayed at home most of the time, possibly went to the park now and again and a walk to the shops but that was about it. So there was more time to potty train and deal with accidents at home.
Nowadays we are out and about so much more with gym classes, music claases, mommy and me Starbucks outings etc, Its harder to stay at home for 3 or 4 days and just get it done.
We trained DD at 2 yrs 4 mos and I would say she was reliable trained by about 2 and a half.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:can't believe anyone care when other people's kids piss in a pot.

OP, get some real problems

I basically agree, but I do care a little, because peer pressure works both ways. And if you have to watch those kids...

At my kid's co-op preschool, there were 8 in the class of 2 year olds. Average age exactly 2.5. He was the only one potty trained. 2 others had done some work towards it. That was it. By the time they started in the 3 year olds class (average age 3.5), only half were trained. My kid didn't regress, but I had friends whose kids did in those situations. Plus cleaning poop off a toddler was not fun as a co-opping parent who hadn't had to do that in a year and a half. That in itself, on a child-by-child basis was whatever. No knock on SN parents or even just parents of really stubborn kids. But it wasn't a rare occurrence since the vast majority of the class was not trained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's the parents. They give the kid the option. There is your answer. Apologies to the late trainers who have been blaming their children. And I don't mean that people who don't give the option to wear diapers past 2 are punishing. It just is not an option, and the parents act confident that the kids can do it. Barring SN, the child can by 2.5 at the latest. If the parent acts doubtful, wishy washy, begs, pleads, but ultimately gives in, the kid will not do it until he decides to, long after winning the power battle. Don't flinch--even when you want to. I realized my mistake later with the night training--I trained my kids before 2 but let the night training go on and on after that because they were young to start with and then it just seemed impossible. I should have just told them they could do it and taken away the pull-ups and not let that go on for 2 more years. Big mistake, and in retrospect, I realize it was me, and not them.

If I had wanted to really make it my mission. If I had been willing to revolve my day around pee/poo/potty breaks (and accidents, LOTS of accidents and changes of clothes)...yes, I could have had mine trained by the age of 3.

But ya know what? I simply saw no need to make such a Big Deal over something that I knew was going to happen *EASILY* for them if I was just patient about it and gave them time.

When they potty trained *they* got themselves to the potty. They pulled their pants up/down. They knew how to wash their hands. They knew to stay out of the trashcan and not play in the toilet water...it was easy. No accidents. Done. And soon they were dry through the night with little effort on my part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think a lot of it is lazy parenting. However, a factor is our lifestyles not. When I was a baby ( 40 years ago) we stayed at home most of the time, possibly went to the park now and again and a walk to the shops but that was about it. So there was more time to potty train and deal with accidents at home.
Nowadays we are out and about so much more with gym classes, music claases, mommy and me Starbucks outings etc, Its harder to stay at home for 3 or 4 days and just get it done.
We trained DD at 2 yrs 4 mos and I would say she was reliable trained by about 2 and a half.

Oh yeah! Long-winded PP here. Right-- that's the other thing. It's easier to do some form of EC or "early" training if you S/WAH all day.

FWIW, I find some of these answers and other posts very interesting, as we did EC. A lot of people say, OMG, to have to "potty train" for a year+! What a waste of time! Well, first of all, it's not really PT, but okay. Secondly, I see a lot of people PT for over a year anyway-- we just did it from 0-1 instead of from 2.5-3.5. (And even many of those who don't actively train for a year do things like "introduce the potty" and "kid occasionally uses it" months and months before PT-- which is similar to what we did, if you think about it.) And thirdly, even for those who only PT actively for a week, they were changing diapers literally for years after I had stopped, so I don't see how I did more work in the end. Not smugness at all, and I really don't care what others do-- but I just don't think I did more work overall. *shrug* Definitely a pick your poison thing.

(I do want to add that one can do EC part time with great results, too-- so you don't have to be SAH/WAHP to make it work.)

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Because I have to drag my child kicking and screaming to the potty every single time b/c he's just that stubborn, he wants all the control, and he simply does not want to do it. When I do get him to go into the bathroom willingly, he sometimes goes right up to the toilet, starts to pull down his pants, and then says, "oops, I just peed." He doesn't care if he goes in his underwear. He doesn't care that all his friends are in underwear. He doesn't care about rewards or chocolate or anything other than deciding that if he wants to go in a diaper he can go in a damn diaper. So he'll go to college in depends and I guess He might start caring when he can't get a date.

Leave it alone, OP. Those of us with late training kids who don't give a sh!t about sh!t are beating ourselves up enough over why this isn't working.