Aging parents who refuse to move

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived this- same situation to include being in Bethesda in the house I grew up in. But my dad had died so it was just my mom, and it wasn’t well maintained for years before he died. We had to sell the house as-is because I didn’t have it in me to put any time or money into it. They left a lot of money on the table but it is what it is.

My mom finally moved into a place close to me when my biweekly visits to help her weren’t enough and I was unable (and frankly unwilling) to give her more of my time. It would take me 45 minutes to two hours each way to visit her. She needed more than I could give and she could only get it by moving closer.

People who are saying to let them live where they want have obviously never been responsible for an aging parent who has physical and/or mental limitations.

Your last paragraph is not true in my case. I had to let go of my willingness to help my frankly crazy parent and I had to give up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

I think all LTC/skilled nursing facilities are sad and depressing so it doesn’t matter much.

This is simply not true. If you can afford to pay for skilled nursing, they can be much better than a Medicaid bed.

Moreover, Medicaid is for poor elderly. Not elderly whose kids disperse their parents five years out from potential death.

You are awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on your parents' mentality. All you can do is try.

My parents are driving me crazy. They refuse to do any planning. They only react to emergencies, and this year they've had dire medical emergencies! I thought this would be the perfect time to help them plan, but nope... it's either: "I can't deal with this because I'm in the hospital/your father is in the hospital", OR "now I'm out of the hospital/your father is out of the hospital, we're going to wait a bit to talk about planning because we're taking a breather, we're not quite ready". In short, they're NEVER ready. My father has a serious disease that required monthly hospital visits. He's stable, but will probably never be cured. So unless they're willing to plan while being in a state of moderate and perpetual medical situation... nothing will ever get done.

I don't know what's going to happen to them, OP. My father refuses to hand over his bank account info, passwords, etc, even though last time he was hospitalized, my mother, who doesn't have access to them, was running short of cash. It's crazy. If and when he's completely incapacitated, I think they expect me to run over to them (they live in Europe!!!), pick up all the pieces, and just hand over my money to pay everything, while their money sits in their bank accounts. If that happens, I will be livid.

Start telling them how you have money issues and can’t pay for your ticket to see them. Let them know you don’t have money to hold them over in case there’s no access to theirs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

I think all LTC/skilled nursing facilities are sad and depressing so it doesn’t matter much.

This is simply not true. If you can afford to pay for skilled nursing, they can be much better than a Medicaid bed.

Moreover, Medicaid is for poor elderly. Not elderly whose kids disperse their parents five years out from potential death.

You are awful.

A better option is of course to receive caregiver hours from the state (some states have those age in place options).
My parents don’t have any money anyway, but it baffles me how there is no generational wealth concept anymore. Everything is spent on eldercare or blown in casinos or on cruises.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

You don't get it. To qualify, the seniors in question are REQUIRED to spend down their assets. So the first few years they're paying, and then when they can't pay, they're allowed to stay thanks to Medicaid.

Unless you come up with a sneaky plan YEARS IN ADVANCE - because the nursing homes check prior assets several years back! - you cannot transfer wealth to relatives to avoid spending down assets.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. And you clearly didn't read some of the PPs' solutions. "Protect the parents' assets so they will qualify for a Medicaid nursing home." Yes, they must be "guessing" when their parents will die, taking away their parents' assets at least 5 years in advance. (And none of us have a crystal ball.) And they do this so they will get the money and the parent will die in a terrible nursing home.

If, as you say, the parent maintains their assets, they frequently (but not always) can find a better skilled nursing facility that will spend down the person's assets and THEN accept Medicaid. Many times, these better facilities will make their decision based on how much they potentially will make before having to accept Medicaid.

These are two different routes. One is honest and has greater potential to be better, while the other is elder abuse, IMO, at the very least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have to accept that this is what they want and dying unnecessarily or in an unpleasant way is their choice. And treating their family badly is also a choice and they are choosing it. Stop fighting them, it's not worth it. I've had to accept this with my dad, and if at some point he loses the ability to know where he is anyway, I will move him.

Had a similar situation with my mother.
At least she was indeed independent and didn’t linger

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

You don't get it. To qualify, the seniors in question are REQUIRED to spend down their assets. So the first few years they're paying, and then when they can't pay, they're allowed to stay thanks to Medicaid.

Unless you come up with a sneaky plan YEARS IN ADVANCE - because the nursing homes check prior assets several years back! - you cannot transfer wealth to relatives to avoid spending down assets.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. And you clearly didn't read some of the PPs' solutions. "Protect the parents' assets so they will qualify for a Medicaid nursing home." Yes, they must be "guessing" when their parents will die, taking away their parents' assets at least 5 years in advance. (And none of us have a crystal ball.) And they do this so they will get the money and the parent will die in a terrible nursing home.

If, as you say, the parent maintains their assets, they frequently (but not always) can find a better skilled nursing facility that will spend down the person's assets and THEN accept Medicaid. Many times, these better facilities will make their decision based on how much they potentially will make before having to accept Medicaid.

These are two different routes. One is honest and has greater potential to be better, while the other is elder abuse, IMO, at the very least.

Dp. Why not trust each other and do the following:
-parent transfers the assets
-when the time comes, child puts parent in a decent facility paying out of those assets for a bit and then the parent stays using Medicaid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

You don't get it. To qualify, the seniors in question are REQUIRED to spend down their assets. So the first few years they're paying, and then when they can't pay, they're allowed to stay thanks to Medicaid.

Unless you come up with a sneaky plan YEARS IN ADVANCE - because the nursing homes check prior assets several years back! - you cannot transfer wealth to relatives to avoid spending down assets.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. And you clearly didn't read some of the PPs' solutions. "Protect the parents' assets so they will qualify for a Medicaid nursing home." Yes, they must be "guessing" when their parents will die, taking away their parents' assets at least 5 years in advance. (And none of us have a crystal ball.) And they do this so they will get the money and the parent will die in a terrible nursing home.

If, as you say, the parent maintains their assets, they frequently (but not always) can find a better skilled nursing facility that will spend down the person's assets and THEN accept Medicaid. Many times, these better facilities will make their decision based on how much they potentially will make before having to accept Medicaid.

These are two different routes. One is honest and has greater potential to be better, while the other is elder abuse, IMO, at the very least.

Dp. Why not trust each other and do the following:
-parent transfers the assets
-when the time comes, child puts parent in a decent facility paying out of those assets for a bit and then the parent stays using Medicaid?[b]

Because it doesn't work that way. If you now have the assets, then they are your assets and you are agreeing to pay for parent in the skilled nursing facility. Then you will be on the hook until the parent dies. You can't say, I'll pay X amount of "my money" then stop. Many states have laws on the books that already require offspring to pay. But rarely, if ever, do states enforce this. But it's one of the reasons why you should never be a cosigner for a parent at any level of care facility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

I think all LTC/skilled nursing facilities are sad and depressing so it doesn’t matter much.

This is simply not true. If you can afford to pay for skilled nursing, they can be much better than a Medicaid bed.

Moreover, Medicaid is for poor elderly. Not elderly whose kids disperse their parents five years out from potential death.

You are awful.

A better option is of course to receive caregiver hours from the state (some states have those age in place options).
My parents don’t have any money anyway, but it baffles me how there is no generational wealth concept anymore. Everything is spent on eldercare or blown in casinos or on cruises.

Parents in the past generally didn't live as long as the elderly live now. So in US culture, we are only now on a larger scale, being forced to deal with the care of elderly who have little if any assets to pay for LTC. My parents never gave it a thought because their parents all died in their late 60s, while my parents are both in their 90s, having made no plans whatsoever for elder care. It never occurred to them they'd still be alive at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

You don't get it. To qualify, the seniors in question are REQUIRED to spend down their assets. So the first few years they're paying, and then when they can't pay, they're allowed to stay thanks to Medicaid.

Unless you come up with a sneaky plan YEARS IN ADVANCE - because the nursing homes check prior assets several years back! - you cannot transfer wealth to relatives to avoid spending down assets.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. And you clearly didn't read some of the PPs' solutions. "Protect the parents' assets so they will qualify for a Medicaid nursing home." Yes, they must be "guessing" when their parents will die, taking away their parents' assets at least 5 years in advance. (And none of us have a crystal ball.) And they do this so they will get the money and the parent will die in a terrible nursing home.

If, as you say, the parent maintains their assets, they frequently (but not always) can find a better skilled nursing facility that will spend down the person's assets and THEN accept Medicaid. Many times, these better facilities will make their decision based on how much they potentially will make before having to accept Medicaid.

These are two different routes. One is honest and has greater potential to be better, while the other is elder abuse, IMO, at the very least.

Dp. Why not trust each other and do the following:
-parent transfers the assets
-when the time comes, child puts parent in a decent facility paying out of those assets for a bit and then the parent stays using Medicaid?[b]

Because it doesn't work that way. If you now have the assets, then they are your assets and you are agreeing to pay for parent in the skilled nursing facility. Then you will be on the hook until the parent dies. You can't say, I'll pay X amount of "my money" then stop. Many states have laws on the books that already require offspring to pay. But rarely, if ever, do states enforce this. But it's one of the reasons why you should never be a cosigner for a parent at any level of care facility.

Point taken. Thank you for this, I didn’t know.
It’s not even my situation as my remaining parent has no money, but I am very interested in how to not get ripped off by the eldercare industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

I think all LTC/skilled nursing facilities are sad and depressing so it doesn’t matter much.

This is simply not true. If you can afford to pay for skilled nursing, they can be much better than a Medicaid bed.

Moreover, Medicaid is for poor elderly. Not elderly whose kids disperse their parents five years out from potential death.

You are awful.

A better option is of course to receive caregiver hours from the state (some states have those age in place options).
My parents don’t have any money anyway, but it baffles me how there is no generational wealth concept anymore. Everything is spent on eldercare or blown in casinos or on cruises.

Parents in the past generally didn't live as long as the elderly live now. So in US culture, we are only now on a larger scale, being forced to deal with the care of elderly who have little if any assets to pay for LTC. My parents never gave it a thought because their parents all died in their late 60s, while my parents are both in their 90s, having made no plans whatsoever for elder care. It never occurred to them they'd still be alive at this point.

I was not talking about “no assets to pay for LTC”, I am talking about “my kids get zilch because it’s all going towards keeping me alive for 20 years when no one wants it including me”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

I think all LTC/skilled nursing facilities are sad and depressing so it doesn’t matter much.

This is simply not true. If you can afford to pay for skilled nursing, they can be much better than a Medicaid bed.

Moreover, Medicaid is for poor elderly. Not elderly whose kids disperse their parents five years out from potential death.

You are awful.

My MIL had early onset dementia, so very young. I took care of her at our home as long as I could with no help but I couldn't do it anymore and our only option was a medicaid bed. Sometimes its the best of bad options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

I think all LTC/skilled nursing facilities are sad and depressing so it doesn’t matter much.

This is simply not true. If you can afford to pay for skilled nursing, they can be much better than a Medicaid bed.

Moreover, Medicaid is for poor elderly. Not elderly whose kids disperse their parents five years out from potential death.

You are awful.

My MIL had early onset dementia, so very young. I took care of her at our home as long as I could with no help but I couldn't do it anymore and our only option was a medicaid bed. Sometimes it's the best of bad options.

I'm the PP, and I agree with this entirely. I'm only addressing those kids who want to save the parent's assets for themselves vs using a parent's assets to pay for their care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boggles my mind that people want to protect their parents' assets and condemn them to a Medicaid nursing home (if they qualify) rather than use their assets to have a decent end of life.

I get someone being forced into a Medicaid nursing home if they have no money, but that kids want to preserve the money for themselves truly astounds me at the selfishness.

I think all LTC/skilled nursing facilities are sad and depressing so it doesn’t matter much.

This is simply not true. If you can afford to pay for skilled nursing, they can be much better than a Medicaid bed.

Moreover, Medicaid is for poor elderly. Not elderly whose kids disperse their parents five years out from potential death.

You are awful.

A better option is of course to receive caregiver hours from the state (some states have those age in place options).
My parents don’t have any money anyway, but it baffles me how there is no generational wealth concept anymore. Everything is spent on eldercare or blown in casinos or on cruises.

Parents in the past generally didn't live as long as the elderly live now. So in US culture, we are only now on a larger scale, being forced to deal with the care of elderly who have little if any assets to pay for LTC. My parents never gave it a thought because their parents all died in their late 60s, while my parents are both in their 90s, having made no plans whatsoever for elder care. It never occurred to them they'd still be alive at this point.

I was not talking about “no assets to pay for LTC”, I am talking about “my kids get zilch because it’s all going towards keeping me alive for 20 years when no one wants it including me”.

The point of Medicaid isn't so your kids can get your assets. Medicaid is for those who have no assets and would be on the streets otherwise. Your assets are there to take care of you. How to you not understand this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have to accept that this is what they want and dying unnecessarily or in an unpleasant way is their choice. And treating their family badly is also a choice and they are choosing it. Stop fighting them, it's not worth it. I've had to accept this with my dad, and if at some point he loses the ability to know where he is anyway, I will move him.

+1. It's horrible, but eventually I came to accept that my parents wanted to live as they always had, and any ideas and support were unwanted. At some point there will be a fall or other emergency, and they will go wherever my siblings and I can find placement, but at least they will have stayed in their home as long as possible. Which is what they really want. It's very hard to come to terms with and my siblings and I look like deadbeats to their neighbors and friends, but you can't make people do what they don't want to do. In my parents case they have always been stubborn, so at least I have the peace of mind of knowing this unreasonable behavior isn't dementia.