Do you judge other women based on the social status of their husbands?

[Anonymous]

No. Although I probably would judge someone if they openly flaunted their supposed social status based solely or primarily on their husband’s accomplishments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

I’m a female physician too. I don’t know that other physicians social status really changes depending on who they are married to.
I do think that nurses social status is very different when they are the primary earner vs secondary earner.
A female nurse married to a doctor has a different social status than a female nurse married to a Target manager.
A male nurse married to a female doctor is just annoying. They think they know everything and are generally terrible at following orders.

If you are going to go around practicing medicine you really should learn to check your biases.

It’s not like I assume that every male nurse who has trouble taking orders from women is married to a female physician. It’s just that, IME, a lot of them are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing I judge is childless women who don’t work and live off their boyfriend/fiancee/husband. It’s a trend that I find creepy and pathetic. I’m sure the men have great jobs but I’m not impressed at all and assume those relationships will fail.

Someone sounds jealous.

Actually I stayed at home with my kids and was bored when they were old enough to be in school so went back to work even though I didn’t have to. I like to earn my own money, use my mind, engage with co-workers, etc. so definitely not jealous. Being back at work has made me a better wife and parent - my husband and kids have much more respect for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing I judge is childless women who don’t work and live off their boyfriend/fiancee/husband. It’s a trend that I find creepy and pathetic. I’m sure the men have great jobs but I’m not impressed at all and assume those relationships will fail.

Someone sounds jealous.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing I judge is childless women who don’t work and live off their boyfriend/fiancee/husband. It’s a trend that I find creepy and pathetic. I’m sure the men have great jobs but I’m not impressed at all and assume those relationships will fail.

Someone sounds jealous.

Actually I stayed at home with my kids and was bored when they were old enough to be in school so went back to work even though I didn’t have to. I like to earn my own money, use my mind, engage with co-workers, etc. so definitely not jealous. Being back at work has made me a better wife and parent - my husband and kids have much more respect for me.

You don’t earn respect from your kids for working or not working. Respect is earned by how you conduct yourself regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

Are you unable to politely extricate yourself and join the lawyer talk? Is one of the wives holding you down?

It sounds like you are very unfamiliar with this kind of a situation. Yes, I can extricate myself—and I have. Which leads to nastiness and jealousy from the DWs. The last time I did this one of the wives was staring over at me and loudly saying “Not like other girls!!!”

If you haven’t been in this situation, you probably aren’t going to understand it.

I’m the guy who you think needs sensitivity training. I work at a very large and well known DC law firm, have been there for many years, and have attended more social events with lawyers and spouses over the years that I care to remember. Never once, never have I ever witnessed anything close to what you are describing among either sex or any spouse, male or female. Wherever you work, you are clearly surrounded by a uniquely hostile group of women.

Agree that the situation described by the "lawyer wife" seems strange. In my experience most lawyers are married to other lawyers (or former lawyers who decided to become SAHMs) and are not remotely like what she describes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

Are you unable to politely extricate yourself and join the lawyer talk? Is one of the wives holding you down?

It sounds like you are very unfamiliar with this kind of a situation. Yes, I can extricate myself—and I have. Which leads to nastiness and jealousy from the DWs. The last time I did this one of the wives was staring over at me and loudly saying “Not like other girls!!!”

If you haven’t been in this situation, you probably aren’t going to understand it.

I’m the guy who you think needs sensitivity training. I work at a very large and well known DC law firm, have been there for many years, and have attended more social events with lawyers and spouses over the years that I care to remember. Never once, never have I ever witnessed anything close to what you are describing among either sex or any spouse, male or female. Wherever you work, you are clearly surrounded by a uniquely hostile group of women.

Of course you haven’t. Bet you also believe there isn’t a bunch of racism going on.

[Anonymous]

I don’t judge women based on the social status of their husbands, but I have asked other women in professional social settings what their spouses do just to make conversation and get a picture of their family as a whole, beyond what I know of them in strictly work mode. I am GenX and I have decided not to do this anymore because I am worried that people may receive this negatively. FWIW, I also ask people about their kids and their vacation plans, etc. It’s harmless on my end but you never know what you say may offend someone.

[Anonymous]

I really don’t think I judge. Come to think of it, I am not sure I know the profession of many friendly female acquaintances (you know the types you have their phone number but aren’t really long standing friends). Obviously if I have met their husbands I usually know what they do. But acquaintances at work that I chat with or moms who I am friendly with - I am not sure I know (or maybe I once knew but don’t remember). I do know stuff about them that their wives share. Two I heard this week as examples: “DH has coached soccer every year since my oldest was 5 and I have no idea what he is going to do with his free time now that youngest has no longer wants to play”. Or “DH is currently into coffee roasting and while I don’t love the smell, it’s great getting his coffee every morning”. I don’t know what either DH does for a profession. So I couldn’t judge the wives on their husbands social status if I wanted to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

Are you unable to politely extricate yourself and join the lawyer talk? Is one of the wives holding you down?

It sounds like you are very unfamiliar with this kind of a situation. Yes, I can extricate myself—and I have. Which leads to nastiness and jealousy from the DWs. The last time I did this one of the wives was staring over at me and loudly saying “Not like other girls!!!”

If you haven’t been in this situation, you probably aren’t going to understand it.

Of course you think someone who disagrees with you must be ignorant.

Why do you care about the nastiness and jealousy of the DWs for whom you have such contempt?

[Anonymous]

No. Why would I care what a woman’s husband does?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Jumps out at me that you said a teacher is a low status job.

No one wants to admit it is, because it isn’t PC to do so. But that DH schoolteacher couldn’t afford a two bedroom apartment in the area where they have a house thanks to the physician wife’s income. No denying that.

The question is do YOU judge, not society. You obviously do.

Everyone judges pp. even you.

I don’t judge teachers the way you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

Are you unable to politely extricate yourself and join the lawyer talk? Is one of the wives holding you down?

It sounds like you are very unfamiliar with this kind of a situation. Yes, I can extricate myself—and I have. Which leads to nastiness and jealousy from the DWs. The last time I did this one of the wives was staring over at me and loudly saying “Not like other girls!!!”

If you haven’t been in this situation, you probably aren’t going to understand it.

I’m the guy who you think needs sensitivity training. I work at a very large and well known DC law firm, have been there for many years, and have attended more social events with lawyers and spouses over the years that I care to remember. Never once, never have I ever witnessed anything close to what you are describing among either sex or any spouse, male or female. Wherever you work, you are clearly surrounded by a uniquely hostile group of women.

Of course you haven’t. Bet you also believe there isn’t a bunch of racism going on.

That's the best you got?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

Are you unable to politely extricate yourself and join the lawyer talk? Is one of the wives holding you down?

It sounds like you are very unfamiliar with this kind of a situation. Yes, I can extricate myself—and I have. Which leads to nastiness and jealousy from the DWs. The last time I did this one of the wives was staring over at me and loudly saying “Not like other girls!!!”

If you haven’t been in this situation, you probably aren’t going to understand it.

I’m the guy who you think needs sensitivity training. I work at a very large and well known DC law firm, have been there for many years, and have attended more social events with lawyers and spouses over the years that I care to remember. Never once, never have I ever witnessed anything close to what you are describing among either sex or any spouse, male or female. Wherever you work, you are clearly surrounded by a uniquely hostile group of women.

Agree that the situation described by the "lawyer wife" seems strange. In my experience most lawyers are married to other lawyers (or former lawyers who decided to become SAHMs) and are not remotely like what she describes.

Well, yea, and I gotta ask: where does that poster work, 1950? What law firm social events are happening these days where the men gather together and talk about work and the women talk about vacations? I've never been to a law firm social event where the majority of the spouses of the lawyers aren't right by their side and the two of them in tandem work the room. The spouses typically barely know each other, and not only that they're usually very well accomplished and highly educated in their own right whether they're also lawyers or not. They certainly don't get together and start knitting parties like at that poster's law firm events.

But I'm in Biglaw. Maybe it's different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

I'm a guy, and a lawyer, and a litigator, and at a social function I'd rather talk about "vacays" or anything else on God's green earth but the "big case I'm working on."

Said like a man who has never been professionally excluded due to sex or race. This is exactly why my job has mandatory bias training— but the white men never listen.

I’m a woman of color and a lawyer. I agree with the man who posted. Why would I want to spend my free time explaining my case to a bunch dudes who don’t understand it and might not even credit me later? I’d much rather talk about vacation. Also honestly, you sound like you are posing from a position of insecurity, not confidence.