Do you judge other women based on the social status of their husbands?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I judge people based on themselves, not on their husbands. Sometimes the male executive marries the executive, sometimes he marries the trashy waitress (and everything in between). And either is fine. People are free to marry who they want.

You are what you are and marriage or a job title don’t change this. I have to know who YOU are before deciding if I want to be friends. I don’t care about your husband.

Your use of the word "trashy" implies otherwise. I'm pretty sure you are out here judging everyone.

Just typical classist DCUM. BS

[Anonymous]

I’d judge if the husband was in prison or operated a chop shop or was a dealer or pump. But a plumber, teacher, actuary, etc? Don’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

I'm a guy, and a lawyer, and a litigator, and at a social function I'd rather talk about "vacays" or anything else on God's green earth but the "big case I'm working on."

Said like a man who has never been professionally excluded due to sex or race. This is exactly why my job has mandatory bias training— but the white men never listen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Not everyone is as stupid and shallow as you.

Nor is everyone as ignorant and lacking in insight as you.

You don't have any insight .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Jumps out at me that you said a teacher is a low status job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Not everyone is as stupid and shallow as you.

Nor is everyone as ignorant and lacking in insight as you.

You don't have any insight .

Found the desperate striver DH schoolteacher…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Jumps out at me that you said a teacher is a low status job.

No one wants to admit it is, because it isn’t PC to do so. But that DH schoolteacher couldn’t afford a two bedroom apartment in the area where they have a house thanks to the physician wife’s income. No denying that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Jumps out at me that you said a teacher is a low status job.

No one wants to admit it is, because it isn’t PC to do so. But that DH schoolteacher couldn’t afford a two bedroom apartment in the area where they have a house thanks to the physician wife’s income. No denying that.

The question is do YOU judge, not society. You obviously do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

Are you unable to politely extricate yourself and join the lawyer talk? Is one of the wives holding you down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Jumps out at me that you said a teacher is a low status job.

No one wants to admit it is, because it isn’t PC to do so. But that DH schoolteacher couldn’t afford a two bedroom apartment in the area where they have a house thanks to the physician wife’s income. No denying that.

The question is do YOU judge, not society. You obviously do.

Everyone judges pp. even you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

Are you unable to politely extricate yourself and join the lawyer talk? Is one of the wives holding you down?

It sounds like you are very unfamiliar with this kind of a situation. Yes, I can extricate myself—and I have. Which leads to nastiness and jealousy from the DWs. The last time I did this one of the wives was staring over at me and loudly saying “Not like other girls!!!”

If you haven’t been in this situation, you probably aren’t going to understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

I'm a guy, and a lawyer, and a litigator, and at a social function I'd rather talk about "vacays" or anything else on God's green earth but the "big case I'm working on."

Said like a man who has never been professionally excluded due to sex or race. This is exactly why my job has mandatory bias training— but the white men never listen.

No, I’m just a guy who doesn’t like to talk about work at social functions. I talk to woman lawyers all the time about their cases AT WORK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

I'm a guy, and a lawyer, and a litigator, and at a social function I'd rather talk about "vacays" or anything else on God's green earth but the "big case I'm working on."

Said like a man who has never been professionally excluded due to sex or race. This is exactly why my job has mandatory bias training— but the white men never listen.

No, I’m just a guy who doesn’t like to talk about work at social functions. I talk to woman lawyers all the time about their cases AT WORK.

Ok?

And you think that what you would prefer to discuss at a party has some bearing on the constant micro aggressions women lawyers face? So much so that you have to come on here and attempt to counter — or even deny — a female lawyer’s experience of bias?

You are very much a part of the problem, and you can’t even comprehend it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

Are you unable to politely extricate yourself and join the lawyer talk? Is one of the wives holding you down?

It sounds like you are very unfamiliar with this kind of a situation. Yes, I can extricate myself—and I have. Which leads to nastiness and jealousy from the DWs. The last time I did this one of the wives was staring over at me and loudly saying “Not like other girls!!!”

If you haven’t been in this situation, you probably aren’t going to understand it.

I’m the guy who you think needs sensitivity training. I work at a very large and well known DC law firm, have been there for many years, and have attended more social events with lawyers and spouses over the years that I care to remember. Never once, never have I ever witnessed anything close to what you are describing among either sex or any spouse, male or female. Wherever you work, you are clearly surrounded by a uniquely hostile group of women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

I'm a guy, and a lawyer, and a litigator, and at a social function I'd rather talk about "vacays" or anything else on God's green earth but the "big case I'm working on."

Said like a man who has never been professionally excluded due to sex or race. This is exactly why my job has mandatory bias training— but the white men never listen.

No, I’m just a guy who doesn’t like to talk about work at social functions. I talk to woman lawyers all the time about their cases AT WORK.

Ok?

And you think that what you would prefer to discuss at a party has some bearing on the constant micro aggressions women lawyers face? So much so that you have to come on here and attempt to counter — or even deny — a female lawyer’s experience of bias?

You are very much a part of the problem, and you can’t even comprehend it.

See my response below. I never said there isn’t bias against women in the workplace.