European families appear so perfect with such well-behaved children - how do they do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A high trust homogenous society where they are held to higher standards as individuals.

High trust HOMOGENOUS society?!!!!?!!?!! Have you been to most European countries in the past decade or so?!!!

They don’t compare to the U.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m American but my father was from Europe. I was raised to be extremely well behaved. My father was very strict and did not tolerate bad behavior, especially not in public. We were taught to sit still, be quiet, not talk loudly, not play with our hair, or touch our clothes, etc. We were also taught to dress appropriately. And from a young age I was taken to the theater, opera, ballet, museums, church, and on occasion nice restaurants where I not only learned how to be in those environments but also practiced good behavior.

"dress appropriately"
Take your moral stupidity and stuff it.

An example of why we don’t have this here - too many differing social attitudes.

[Anonymous]

Beating, shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A high trust homogenous society where they are held to higher standards as individuals.

High trust HOMOGENOUS society?!!!!?!!?!! Have you been to most European countries in the past decade or so?!!!

They don’t compare to the U.S.

This doesnt answer the question at all or have anything to do with what you said...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A high trust homogenous society where they are held to higher standards as individuals.

+1. And everyone knows and operates under the same basic social mores.

This has to be a joke. Americans cannot be this naive about life in Europe....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m American but my father was from Europe. I was raised to be extremely well behaved. My father was very strict and did not tolerate bad behavior, especially not in public. We were taught to sit still, be quiet, not talk loudly, not play with our hair, or touch our clothes, etc. We were also taught to dress appropriately. And from a young age I was taken to the theater, opera, ballet, museums, church, and on occasion nice restaurants where I not only learned how to be in those environments but also practiced good behavior.

"dress appropriately"
Take your moral stupidity and stuff it.

An example of why we don’t have this here - too many differing social attitudes.

You realize European countries tend to have vastly different social attitudes now that cause lots of issues? For example, the German/Nordic concept of "nudity isn't such a big deal" and that women should be allowed to dress in relatively revealing clothing contrasts sharply with many of the refugee/immigrant class's belief that women should be covered, wear hijabs, etc. Or the sexually free values of these European countries contrasting sharply with the belief that such behavior is a sin. This contrast leads to absolutely horrific events such as the mass rape of German women in Cologne on New Years Eve in 2016. Your image of a homogenous, ethnically uniform country where everyone has blonde hair and blue eyes and the same values is extremely dated by around 40 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American who spends time in Stockholm and have observed this too, OP. I also notice a related phenomenon with family dogs when they are taken out in public. Swedish city-dwelling dogs have -excellent- manners and temperament compared to DC dogs — even the same breeds. It’s like they are all highly trained service dogs for the vision impaired. Calm and confident, never leash pulling or inappropriately interested in every stimulus.

With both kids and dogs, a large part of the presentation has to be expectations set at birth. But genetics must have something to do with it because you almost never see crying fussy babies in store or errands, which blows my mind. They’re all calm.

The people are calm too. In a more socialist society where you don't make a lot of $ but you have security of health insurance, free education etc. there is far less striving and stress forUMC families. These are also far smaller spaces, there isn't a lot of private space (large back yards etc) so you are always out in public and other people will correct your kids. Europeans and even more so the Japanese have a very strong culture of not inconveniencing others with their actions.

Yea, I think part of it is the stress. American families are more stressed out.

DH is from Europe; my family is from Asia. We raised our kids kind of the old fashioned ways (we are also older parents). We have had many compliments from strangers at restaurants about how well behaved our kids are. They are now teens, and we still get compliments. DH was fairly strict about table manners; me, less so, but that's because I grew up in the US.

Our kids noted how we parent differently than most of their friends' parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Beating, shame.

Shame is a big part of the Asian culture. My mother tried that on me. Didn't really work. But, it does have its benefits.

-Asian American

[Anonymous]

This is a generalization at best.

And it's ridiculous.

American kids are a product of bad parenting and idiots, see MAGA cult 50% of this country entitled idiots.

[Anonymous]

Such a wasteful and jealous generalization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American who spends time in Stockholm and have observed this too, OP. I also notice a related phenomenon with family dogs when they are taken out in public. Swedish city-dwelling dogs have -excellent- manners and temperament compared to DC dogs — even the same breeds. It’s like they are all highly trained service dogs for the vision impaired. Calm and confident, never leash pulling or inappropriately interested in every stimulus.

With both kids and dogs, a large part of the presentation has to be expectations set at birth. But genetics must have something to do with it because you almost never see crying fussy babies in store or errands, which blows my mind. They’re all calm.

The people are calm too. In a more socialist society where you don't make a lot of $ but you have security of health insurance, free education etc. there is far less striving and stress forUMC families. These are also far smaller spaces, there isn't a lot of private space (large back yards etc) so you are always out in public and other people will correct your kids. Europeans and even more so the Japanese have a very strong culture of not inconveniencing others with their actions.

I agree with this. Work is a little less stressful. Homes are smaller. Health care is covered. Food is fresher. It all adds up.

😂😂😂😂
Life is NOT less stressful- this is like someone going to visit Thailand on vacation and thinking all Thais live life on the beach 24/7.

Incomes are much lower in Europe whereas taxes are much higher. Yes, food quality is better, although if youre rich in the United States you can likely afford organic or higher end food that avoids this issue. Homes/apartments are much smaller and often lack conveniences like washing machines, dishwashers, etc (but not always). Life in Europe is not some dolce vita fantasy where everyone is chilled out all the time, and frankly it's laughable when Americans think this way.

Income is lower but they don't have to worry about healthcare, education costs, retirement (as much). They have a stronger safety net, so life is less stressful. Vacations are cheaper in Europe; even lower income people are able to go to Greece for a holiday. My ILs live in the UK, and one of them is lower income, and they go on holidays. Low income people here generally don't go on holidays that require flying for a few hours.

We have some UMC friends in the UK, and we were talking about how much is needed to retire comfortably in the UK vs the US, and their figure is a lot lower than ours. We told them what are monthly expenses were, and they were shocked. They said we must be living a life of luxury. Ha. We have a good life, but it's far from "luxurious".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American who spends time in Stockholm and have observed this too, OP. I also notice a related phenomenon with family dogs when they are taken out in public. Swedish city-dwelling dogs have -excellent- manners and temperament compared to DC dogs — even the same breeds. It’s like they are all highly trained service dogs for the vision impaired. Calm and confident, never leash pulling or inappropriately interested in every stimulus.

With both kids and dogs, a large part of the presentation has to be expectations set at birth. But genetics must have something to do with it because you almost never see crying fussy babies in store or errands, which blows my mind. They’re all calm.

The people are calm too. In a more socialist society where you don't make a lot of $ but you have security of health insurance, free education etc. there is far less striving and stress forUMC families. These are also far smaller spaces, there isn't a lot of private space (large back yards etc) so you are always out in public and other people will correct your kids. Europeans and even more so the Japanese have a very strong culture of not inconveniencing others with their actions.

I agree with this. Work is a little less stressful. Homes are smaller. Health care is covered. Food is fresher. It all adds up.

😂😂😂😂
Life is NOT less stressful- this is like someone going to visit Thailand on vacation and thinking all Thais live life on the beach 24/7.

Incomes are much lower in Europe whereas taxes are much higher. Yes, food quality is better, although if youre rich in the United States you can likely afford organic or higher end food that avoids this issue. Homes/apartments are much smaller and often lack conveniences like washing machines, dishwashers, etc (but not always). Life in Europe is not some dolce vita fantasy where everyone is chilled out all the time, and frankly it's laughable when Americans think this way.

Income is lower but they don't have to worry about healthcare, education costs, retirement (as much). They have a stronger safety net, so life is less stressful. Vacations are cheaper in Europe; even lower income people are able to go to Greece for a holiday. My ILs live in the UK, and one of them is lower income, and they go on holidays. Low income people here generally don't go on holidays that require flying for a few hours.

We have some UMC friends in the UK, and we were talking about how much is needed to retire comfortably in the UK vs the US, and their figure is a lot lower than ours. We told them what are monthly expenses were, and they were shocked. They said we must be living a life of luxury. Ha. We have a good life, but it's far from "luxurious".

This is hilarious! Yes, they do have to worry about those things, and for example it's normal for Europeans to pay hundreds of dollars per month for health insurance- it is not "free" as we think it is in the US, not unless youre unemployed and fully living off benefits. Their taxes and social security costs are monumentally higher. Their incomes are much lower. So what may seem "cheap" to Americans is not "cheap" to the average European.

[Anonymous]

I hate to romanticize European parenting/lifestyle, but I cannot help but notice this every time I'm in France. We go to Paris twice a year to visit DH's parents so it's not just a one time coincidence. By and large children from as young as toddlers all the way up to teens seem better behaved and socialized. Authoritarian parenting does not explain it because often I notice the parents are more relaxed as well, especially the moms. I don't speak French so I don't have any close friendships with French moms, but the ones I have chatted with over the years through DH all shared one thing: they were able to take a long maternity leave (2-3 years) and then ease back into working with a part-time job that allowed them to continue supporting the kids, and still paid decently/aligned with their professional interests. So they are less stressed and overall more.. fulfilled (?) than I am, because they have less anxiety and guilt over the series of questions we see all the time here: do I become a SAHM? for how long? when do I get back to work? what about lost earning potential? killing my career? HOW do i even find a job after 3-5 years off?

Relatedly, they stress so much less about their kids. I'm not afraid to admit that while my kids are still in elementary school, I do occasionally worry about their "futures" - where they can get into college, how they are going to afford housing in expensive metro areas, are they going to end up OK - and I never get this sense of anxiety from French moms. They seem more hands-off which is counterintuitive to the idea that you need more discipline and active management for well behaved kids. I wish someone can explain to me how less micromanaging, less worry and anxiety about your kids can result in better behaved kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You also have to think about the European families you’re coming across when you’re on vacation. You’re seeing MC and up who are also on vacation or who can afford to live in the very nice areas.
I’m English but live in the US. Spouse and DD are American. Currently in Germany. We’ve seen very few kids on screens in restaurants or other public places. They’re interacting with their adults or coloring or reading etc.
Americans seem more hesitant to do this and hand a screen over far too young. Kids are less likely to learn how to sit and behave when it’s never expected.

\\

So people who are as rich as the Americans who can take these vacations (which is REALLY the upper end when it comes to Europeans) AND yet still surrounded by a European mentality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to romanticize European parenting/lifestyle, but I cannot help but notice this every time I'm in France. We go to Paris twice a year to visit DH's parents so it's not just a one time coincidence. By and large children from as young as toddlers all the way up to teens seem better behaved and socialized. Authoritarian parenting does not explain it because often I notice the parents are more relaxed as well, especially the moms. I don't speak French so I don't have any close friendships with French moms, but the ones I have chatted with over the years through DH all shared one thing: they were able to take a long maternity leave (2-3 years) and then ease back into working with a part-time job that allowed them to continue supporting the kids, and still paid decently/aligned with their professional interests. So they are less stressed and overall more.. fulfilled (?) than I am, because they have less anxiety and guilt over the series of questions we see all the time here: do I become a SAHM? for how long? when do I get back to work? what about lost earning potential? killing my career? HOW do i even find a job after 3-5 years off?

Relatedly, they stress so much less about their kids. I'm not afraid to admit that while my kids are still in elementary school, I do occasionally worry about their "futures" - where they can get into college, how they are going to afford housing in expensive metro areas, are they going to end up OK - and I never get this sense of anxiety from French moms. They seem more hands-off which is counterintuitive to the idea that you need more discipline and active management for well behaved kids. I wish someone can explain to me how less micromanaging, less worry and anxiety about your kids can result in better behaved kids.

This is easy. Children thrive when they understand rules and expectations. Modern parenting leaves the children to set the rules, which is stressful in its own right. You are actually making things more difficult for your children by being permissive. It's so messed up.