European families appear so perfect with such well-behaved children - how do they do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beating, shame.

Shame is a big part of the Asian culture. My mother tried that on me. Didn't really work. But, it does have its benefits.

-Asian American

East Asian here, I thought the Americans boys were way better than East Asian boys. My elementary school classmates about 15-20 boys routinely beat us girls up, I still have a few scars from this one who stabbed me with sharp objects.

They probably didn't go after the American girls, though, right? They went after you because you are Asian, as well.

IMO, the deep shame and harsh parenting styles of Asians makes kids have ptsd and act out.

More than likely, those Asian boys behaved better at home than the American boys, but that doesn't mean that those Asian boys were better kids.

- pp Asian American

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in Morocco on vacation with our tween kids, and are staying in nice (but not fancy) family-friendly riads and hotels. Essentially everyone else is European - mostly French, Spanish, and German, with occasional Belgians or Scandinavians (which I know because they exchange brief pleasantries with one another around the pool in excellent English).

They are all attractive (moms with 4 kids and older teens are wearing bikinis - and look great!), have between 2-4 extremely well-behaved children, and the kids are relatively quiet but smiling and happy. The kids entertain themselves (in the pool, reading, playing cards), don’t pester their parents (who are reading actual books, not playing with their phones), and there is little to no crying or whining, except some age-appropriate crying from a baby - who was immediately picked up lovingly and tended to by her teenaged sister. The kids eat dinner with excellent manners, clean their plate, and the whole family sits and talks animatedly for the ~1.5 hours it takes to be served dinner (which doesn’t start until 8 or 8:30 PM).

And then the perfect European families are all up bright and early looking fabulous (parents and kids), having just finished breakfast when we straggle in bleary eyed at 9 AM.

I am so fascinated and intimidated. Every single Euro-family appears so calm, happy, well-behaved, and well-mannered, and looks great, (without appearing to need sleep). No one ever seems frazzled or even appears to get annoyed. How is this possible?

Europeans in general lead disciplined and structured lives, even their pets are well behaved.

Most American parents and institutions no longer believe in discipline and structure, those characteristics apparently have racist or equity connotations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m American but my father was from Europe. I was raised to be extremely well behaved. My father was very strict and did not tolerate bad behavior, especially not in public. We were taught to sit still, be quiet, not talk loudly, not play with our hair, or touch our clothes, etc. We were also taught to dress appropriately. And from a young age I was taken to the theater, opera, ballet, museums, church, and on occasion nice restaurants where I not only learned how to be in those environments but also practiced good behavior.

Same here. I think overall Europeans truly value their children more than Americans do. That’s what I see every time I visit Europe.

The worst is how many parents are rushing back to the office so soon after having a baby, especially when finances aren’t an issue.

Americans have been conditioned to believe that each person getting their own paycheck is more noble than parenting their own child.

[Anonymous]

My family was like this when I was a kid. We didn’t have screens then and our parents didn’t run us ragged with a billion after school activities. We were used up eating dinner together every night. We had chores so we couldn’t just get up from the table and leave. One of us cleared, one of us washed and one of us dried the dishes. This was every night. We knew better than to backtalk our parents.

[Anonymous]

I haven’t read through every post, but I find in Europe, kids are part of it. They learn to go out with their parents. This really isn’t the case in the US.

Go out for dinner or lunch or a hike in Germany, there are playgrounds at the many of the restaurants and alms. The kids hang out with other kids, and the grownups hang out. Children act as part of Scott because they are treated as part of society, not some weird luggage to be left at home until they have to come out and act like they’ve done it all before.

[Anonymous]

Stressful life = kids acting out and parents making bad parenting choices

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Such a wasteful and jealous generalization.

Wasteful!? What is being wasted, exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read through every post, but I find in Europe, kids are part of it. They learn to go out with their parents. This really isn’t the case in the US.

Go out for dinner or lunch or a hike in Germany, there are playgrounds at the many of the restaurants and alms. The kids hang out with other kids, and the grownups hang out. Children act as part of Scott because they are treated as part of society, not some weird luggage to be left at home until they have to come out and act like they’ve done it all before.

IMO, European kids are expected to grow up a lot earlier than in the US, and as such, they are treated like little adults earlier. With that comes expectations of certain behaviors.

UMC families in the US coddle their kids even well into college aged years. I'm on a FB parent group for my kid's college, and wow, some of the stuff parents are asking about...

I understand the worry but it's embarrassing for you and your kid to ask such questions.

[Anonymous]

I'm an American and I think it's what you put your energy into.

I was out with a friend and her preschooler a few years ago. She let her DD grind crackers into the carpet at the restaurant, speak loudly, and get up and wander around. She seemed to think everyone should be okay with this since her DD was a small child. It was a parent problem.

[Anonymous]

More discipline when the kids are young (toddler through elementary school years) to set up good habits, establish baselines of what is acceptable for family dynamic and interactions, then less micromanaging and pressure on the kids as they get older (middle and high schools years).

It's not always intuitive but when you do not coddle kids when they are young, you establish a structure from which you can let go and be more relaxed when they get older. Some parents (not only Americans) get it in the reverse: coddling and "gentle" parenting with toddlers and young kids, but then pile up the pressure and high expectations as they get older. That does not lead to well-behaved and happy kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what’s their secret to stay good looking. Whenever I travel to Italy I also spot the mom of multiple tween wearing her designer blazer, perfect hair and baby face. Aaarrh!

Funny. My observation is that they all get round / rolly-polly eventually. Then as young moms, round as young grandmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Im an immigrwnt (moved to us at 10) but my kids and husband are American and they are like this. Except the 9am part in Europe as the time change is brutal on them. At home they are up and pleasant at 7. A lot of it is expectations of behavior, non tolerance of whining, rowdiness and loud voices in public. We let kids get away with so much in the US. We specifically do not do activities that will infringe on family dinner time so my kids know how to sit for an hour at a table and talk to us. Early ES kids.

I lived in Spain for years and this is consistent with my observations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m American but my father was from Europe. I was raised to be extremely well behaved. My father was very strict and did not tolerate bad behavior, especially not in public. We were taught to sit still, be quiet, not talk loudly, not play with our hair, or touch our clothes, etc. We were also taught to dress appropriately. And from a young age I was taken to the theater, opera, ballet, museums, church, and on occasion nice restaurants where I not only learned how to be in those environments but also practiced good behavior.

"dress appropriately"
Take your moral stupidity and stuff it.

An example of why we don’t have this here - too many differing social attitudes.

You realize European countries tend to have vastly different social attitudes now that cause lots of issues? For example, the German/Nordic concept of "nudity isn't such a big deal" and that women should be allowed to dress in relatively revealing clothing contrasts sharply with many of the refugee/immigrant class's belief that women should be covered, wear hijabs, etc. Or the sexually free values of these European countries contrasting sharply with the belief that such behavior is a sin. This contrast leads to absolutely horrific events such as the mass rape of German women in Cologne on New Years Eve in 2016. Your image of a homogenous, ethnically uniform country where everyone has blonde hair and blue eyes and the same values is extremely dated by around 40 years

Agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American who spends time in Stockholm and have observed this too, OP. I also notice a related phenomenon with family dogs when they are taken out in public. Swedish city-dwelling dogs have -excellent- manners and temperament compared to DC dogs — even the same breeds. It’s like they are all highly trained service dogs for the vision impaired. Calm and confident, never leash pulling or inappropriately interested in every stimulus.

With both kids and dogs, a large part of the presentation has to be expectations set at birth. But genetics must have something to do with it because you almost never see crying fussy babies in store or errands, which blows my mind. They’re all calm.

Considering how many Americans have European ethnicity (since America is still majority of white, most of us) it cannot be genetically related. It definitely has something to do with culture and society

There is a theory out there that Americans' ancestors were largely by definition people who could not make it in their country of origin, and therefore immigrated. The theory goes that therefore there are more learning disabilities and mental health issues among Americans than there are in those who remained in the countries of origin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m American but my father was from Europe. I was raised to be extremely well behaved. My father was very strict and did not tolerate bad behavior, especially not in public. We were taught to sit still, be quiet, not talk loudly, not play with our hair, or touch our clothes, etc. We were also taught to dress appropriately. And from a young age I was taken to the theater, opera, ballet, museums, church, and on occasion nice restaurants where I not only learned how to be in those environments but also practiced good behavior.

"dress appropriately"
Take your moral stupidity and stuff it.

Actually I think that appropriate dress matters. A person who is dressed for business operates in a different mode than a person who is dressed for hiking does. A child who is dressed for church behaves differently than a child who is dressed for the playground.

When I was a child we had school clothes, play clothes, and dress clothes. We never wore clothes or dress clothes to school, and we never wore school clothes to play. In my generation and those before mine, these standards applied and it made a difference in terms of demeanor and behavior. We have lost the standards in the United States, and consequently children's ability to differentiate among environments that require different kinds of behavior.

I think that in most of Europe, these dress standards still exist.