European families appear so perfect with such well-behaved children - how do they do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American who spends time in Stockholm and have observed this too, OP. I also notice a related phenomenon with family dogs when they are taken out in public. Swedish city-dwelling dogs have -excellent- manners and temperament compared to DC dogs — even the same breeds. It’s like they are all highly trained service dogs for the vision impaired. Calm and confident, never leash pulling or inappropriately interested in every stimulus.

With both kids and dogs, a large part of the presentation has to be expectations set at birth. But genetics must have something to do with it because you almost never see crying fussy babies in store or errands, which blows my mind. They’re all calm.

I had one super chill baby and one fussy one so I doubt that it’s broadly genetics. Especially since even immigrants to Europe raise better behaved kids.

[Anonymous]

It’s the food. European kids eat real meals made with real food, they don’t snack on crap all day long. A lot of the “food” we give our kids here is actually banned in most parts of Europe due to the unhealthy chemicals in it. Literally banned. Just think about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you did an excellent job of describing the subtle details of the MC/UMC western Euro family!

When I lived in Orlando, I saw this a lot. A little bit of an off shoot from Miami’s international connections, you see many families from Spain, Japan, Russia, England, etc. Not as tourists, but living there for a few years.

Always, always brand new shoes. I’d be wearing 6mo old shoes that still felt new and clean to me. No, they are not doing that.

*The English dads, always overweight.

I think I figured it out.
These are UC families.

The difference is

In the US, upper class families wall themselves in more. You don’t see them out. Not at rolled ice cream shop, getting ice cream together. Only at higher end malls, restaurants, country clubs, or .. again, just a private residences.

Upper class foreign families living in the US have the desire to go out and be among people. You’ll see them sitting outdoors or having a picnic by the soccer/park area.

MC foreign families visiting don’t stand out, look more American MC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in Morocco on vacation with our tween kids, and are staying in nice (but not fancy) family-friendly riads and hotels. Essentially everyone else is European - mostly French, Spanish, and German, with occasional Belgians or Scandinavians (which I know because they exchange brief pleasantries with one another around the pool in excellent English).

They are all attractive (moms with 4 kids and older teens are wearing bikinis - and look great!), have between 2-4 extremely well-behaved children, and the kids are relatively quiet but smiling and happy. The kids entertain themselves (in the pool, reading, playing cards), don’t pester their parents (who are reading actual books, not playing with their phones), and there is little to no crying or whining, except some age-appropriate crying from a baby - who was immediately picked up lovingly and tended to by her teenaged sister. The kids eat dinner with excellent manners, clean their plate, and the whole family sits and talks animatedly for the ~1.5 hours it takes to be served dinner (which doesn’t start until 8 or 8:30 PM).

And then the perfect European families are all up bright and early looking fabulous (parents and kids), having just finished breakfast when we straggle in bleary eyed at 9 AM.

I am so fascinated and intimidated. Every single Euro-family appears so calm, happy, well-behaved, and well-mannered, and looks great, (without appearing to need sleep). No one ever seems frazzled or even appears to get annoyed. How is this possible?

As someone who is an immigrant from a Mediterranean country and have been living in the US for 20+ years. A few things I feel are different when it comes to raising kids:

- Kids in the US are so overscheduled that they cannot easily entertain themselves and resort to bugging adults when they have a little downtime.

- There is usually no special kids menu for kids in most European countries. My mom would joke that when I was 3, I was eating octopus and chicken liver pate, whereas most kids here are limited to chicken nuggets and pizza at that age. As a result, European kids are much more easy going about food. They also sit with adults on the same dining table when possible and learn proper dining etiquette at a young age.

- Finally, many European families aren't too geographically separated as they are in the US. My uncles, aunts and grandparents all lived within walking distance of us when we were growing up. That regular exposure to trusted adults taught us how to interact properly with adults from a young age.

Just my 2 cents

[Anonymous]

I am French. Please don't romanticize European parenting. There are social expectations that children won't act rudely in public, so parents enforce behavior rules such that most kids appear relatively calm and well-mannered. What do you think it takes for such enforcement, people, hmm? Sometimes it's not the positive-only training that Americans like to think is the only ethical way of raising kids
Same in Asia. My Japanese cousins were strictly brought up.

Also, ADHD and all other mental health disorders are not as recognized and catered to as here in the US. Adderall, the most efficient medication to treat ADHD, is banned in most countries in the world as a dangerous substance. My son has flown to Europe and Asia with his Adderall, but that's because US prescriptions in their original bottle are allowed for those some of these countries.

So kids with mental health disorders who cannot be trained to behave correctly in public... just don't go to the resorts that you visit, OP. And believe me, they're not well treated by the societies in which they live. There's a lot of guilting and shaming.

There's no secret. The expectations are different, the parenting is stricter, and the kids who cannot be compliant are often labeled as bad children.

[Anonymous]

I don't think this is necessarily an American vs Euro thing.

I think this is certain subset of the US.

Southerners tend to teach their kids to be more polite and considerate in public. Well off kids in DC are often very entitled and spoiled acting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you did an excellent job of describing the subtle details of the MC/UMC western Euro family!

When I lived in Orlando, I saw this a lot. A little bit of an off shoot from Miami’s international connections, you see many families from Spain, Japan, Russia, England, etc. Not as tourists, but living there for a few years.

Always, always brand new shoes. I’d be wearing 6mo old shoes that still felt new and clean to me. No, they are not doing that.

*The English dads, always overweight.

I think I figured it out.
These are UC families.

The difference is

In the US, upper class families wall themselves in more. You don’t see them out. Not at rolled ice cream shop, getting ice cream together. Only at higher end malls, restaurants, country clubs, or .. again, just a private residences.

Upper class foreign families living in the US have the desire to go out and be among people. You’ll see them sitting outdoors or having a picnic by the soccer/park area.

MC foreign families visiting don’t stand out, look more American MC.

say more about this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beating, shame.

Shame is a big part of the Asian culture. My mother tried that on me. Didn't really work. But, it does have its benefits.

-Asian American

Yes, Americans are guilt ridden but shameless. Not sure it’s preferable or beneficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in Morocco on vacation with our tween kids, and are staying in nice (but not fancy) family-friendly riads and hotels. Essentially everyone else is European - mostly French, Spanish, and German, with occasional Belgians or Scandinavians (which I know because they exchange brief pleasantries with one another around the pool in excellent English).

They are all attractive (moms with 4 kids and older teens are wearing bikinis - and look great!), have between 2-4 extremely well-behaved children, and the kids are relatively quiet but smiling and happy. The kids entertain themselves (in the pool, reading, playing cards), don’t pester their parents (who are reading actual books, not playing with their phones), and there is little to no crying or whining, except some age-appropriate crying from a baby - who was immediately picked up lovingly and tended to by her teenaged sister. The kids eat dinner with excellent manners, clean their plate, and the whole family sits and talks animatedly for the ~1.5 hours it takes to be served dinner (which doesn’t start until 8 or 8:30 PM).

And then the perfect European families are all up bright and early looking fabulous (parents and kids), having just finished breakfast when we straggle in bleary eyed at 9 AM.

I am so fascinated and intimidated. Every single Euro-family appears so calm, happy, well-behaved, and well-mannered, and looks great, (without appearing to need sleep). No one ever seems frazzled or even appears to get annoyed. How is this possible?

As someone who is an immigrant from a Mediterranean country and have been living in the US for 20+ years. A few things I feel are different when it comes to raising kids:

- Kids in the US are so overscheduled that they cannot easily entertain themselves and resort to bugging adults when they have a little downtime.

- There is usually no special kids menu for kids in most European countries. My mom would joke that when I was 3, I was eating octopus and chicken liver pate, whereas most kids here are limited to chicken nuggets and pizza at that age. As a result, European kids are much more easy going about food. They also sit with adults on the same dining table when possible and learn proper dining etiquette at a young age.

- Finally, many European families aren't too geographically separated as they are in the US. My uncles, aunts and grandparents all lived within walking distance of us when we were growing up. That regular exposure to trusted adults taught us how to interact properly with adults from a young age.

Just my 2 cents

I have lived in many places with children but am from the US.

This is the #1 difference I see between the kids in other locations versus where we are.

I don't know if it's the reason for the difference between behavior but I can't imagine the lack of downtime for kids helps in the US. It seems like a very stressful life for everyone and I think it results in kids who aren't as self-sufficient or creative when every moment of the day is scheduled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to romanticize European parenting/lifestyle, but I cannot help but notice this every time I'm in France. We go to Paris twice a year to visit DH's parents so it's not just a one time coincidence. By and large children from as young as toddlers all the way up to teens seem better behaved and socialized. Authoritarian parenting does not explain it because often I notice the parents are more relaxed as well, especially the moms. I don't speak French so I don't have any close friendships with French moms, but the ones I have chatted with over the years through DH all shared one thing: they were able to take a long maternity leave (2-3 years) and then ease back into working with a part-time job that allowed them to continue supporting the kids, and still paid decently/aligned with their professional interests. So they are less stressed and overall more.. fulfilled (?) than I am, because they have less anxiety and guilt over the series of questions we see all the time here: do I become a SAHM? for how long? when do I get back to work? what about lost earning potential? killing my career? HOW do i even find a job after 3-5 years off?

Relatedly, they stress so much less about their kids. I'm not afraid to admit that while my kids are still in elementary school, I do occasionally worry about their "futures" - where they can get into college, how they are going to afford housing in expensive metro areas, are they going to end up OK - and I never get this sense of anxiety from French moms. They seem more hands-off which is counterintuitive to the idea that you need more discipline and active management for well behaved kids. I wish someone can explain to me how less micromanaging, less worry and anxiety about your kids can result in better behaved kids.

My explanation (born and raised in Europe) is that all that micromanaging spreads you too thin and doesn’t allow you to concentrate your efforts on where it really matters. Also, a lot of American parenting (mothering, actually) is really performative where women are running themselves rugged for nothing AND engage in behaviors that enforce other women doing the same thing. The whole PTA thing and related politics come to mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you visit a Restaurant in Italy every single kid from age 0 - 18 sits in front of a screen, if you're lucky, the child is wearing headphones but very often you have to listen to they idiotic game the child is playing.
Signed Eropean

No. Not the natives.

— living in Milan for school currently

Italian children are the most unpopular guests according to a survey of European hoteliers.
https://www.derstandard.at/story/1034831/bambini-schreckgespenst-der-hoteliers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beating, shame.

Shame is a big part of the Asian culture. My mother tried that on me. Didn't really work. But, it does have its benefits.

-Asian American

East Asian here, I thought the Americans boys were way better than East Asian boys. My elementary school classmates about 15-20 boys routinely beat us girls up, I still have a few scars from this one who stabbed me with sharp objects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in Morocco on vacation with our tween kids, and are staying in nice (but not fancy) family-friendly riads and hotels. Essentially everyone else is European - mostly French, Spanish, and German, with occasional Belgians or Scandinavians (which I know because they exchange brief pleasantries with one another around the pool in excellent English).

They are all attractive (moms with 4 kids and older teens are wearing bikinis - and look great!), have between 2-4 extremely well-behaved children, and the kids are relatively quiet but smiling and happy. The kids entertain themselves (in the pool, reading, playing cards), don’t pester their parents (who are reading actual books, not playing with their phones), and there is little to no crying or whining, except some age-appropriate crying from a baby - who was immediately picked up lovingly and tended to by her teenaged sister. The kids eat dinner with excellent manners, clean their plate, and the whole family sits and talks animatedly for the ~1.5 hours it takes to be served dinner (which doesn’t start until 8 or 8:30 PM).

And then the perfect European families are all up bright and early looking fabulous (parents and kids), having just finished breakfast when we straggle in bleary eyed at 9 AM.

I am so fascinated and intimidated. Every single Euro-family appears so calm, happy, well-behaved, and well-mannered, and looks great, (without appearing to need sleep). No one ever seems frazzled or even appears to get annoyed. How is this possible?

As someone who is an immigrant from a Mediterranean country and have been living in the US for 20+ years. A few things I feel are different when it comes to raising kids:

- Kids in the US are so overscheduled that they cannot easily entertain themselves and resort to bugging adults when they have a little downtime.

- There is usually no special kids menu for kids in most European countries. My mom would joke that when I was 3, I was eating octopus and chicken liver pate, whereas most kids here are limited to chicken nuggets and pizza at that age. As a result, European kids are much more easy going about food. They also sit with adults on the same dining table when possible and learn proper dining etiquette at a young age.

- Finally, many European families aren't too geographically separated as they are in the US. My uncles, aunts and grandparents all lived within walking distance of us when we were growing up. That regular exposure to trusted adults taught us how to interact properly with adults from a young age.

Just my 2 cents

I have lived in many places with children but am from the US.

This is the #1 difference I see between the kids in other locations versus where we are.

I don't know if it's the reason for the difference between behavior but I can't imagine the lack of downtime for kids helps in the US. It seems like a very stressful life for everyone and I think it results in kids who aren't as self-sufficient or creative when every moment of the day is scheduled

Asian kids are also over scheduled, but they also are shamed a lot.

IMO, there is no one culture that does parenting perfectly. You never know what goes on behind closed doors.

-Asian American parent

[Anonymous]

It’s not all Europeans and not all Americans, obviously.
But I do see differences (as a European living in the US) and the main difference I think is priorities as others have said: many UMC highly value a lot of extra curricular activities, after school sports etc, meaning that the evenings are very busy and there isn’t time for family meals. That is very different to how I grew up and how we live now. My kids aged 16, 14, 12 do some activities after school but not every day and not all evening (in other words they are not in any competitive sports teams!), they are responsible for getting themselves to and from these activities on the metro/bus (so I am not driving them all over the place) and everyone is home for dinner which we eat at 7:30 or 8pm, all together at the table every night, often with grandparents too.

[Anonymous]

This sounds like my family. We are not European.