European families appear so perfect with such well-behaved children - how do they do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I’m now in a tent in the Sahara desert and can’t sleep…. There’s great cell coverage, which seems bizarre, but I’m bored, so I’ll take it!

The commentary here is so thoughtful and interesting!

We actually live in Manhattan (I found DCUM during a stint at the NIH), and our kids have far more “European” upbringing than their cousins in the suburbs, in that we live in a small apartment and have to be quiet because of our neighbors, we go to museums/broadway/out to eat regularly, the kids take the subway a few stops to school and tool around our neighborhood by themselves, and after school sports are far less intense than for their cousins in the burbs.

And yet… we are still just a frazzled mess compared to the European families. I am dumpy, our kids are whiny and moody, at dinner our kids can’t remember to put their napkins in their laps without me hissing at them, and we are unable to sustain a thoughtful conversation at the table that lasts >20 minutes without someone whining that they are bored and want to go get a book.

There are very thoughtful comments here. Maybe there is a significant component of “peer pressure” from society in general in Europe that helps kids learn to behave? And im sure I was too permissive with the kids, and it’s probably not great that we have family dinner maybe twice a week….ugh.

Ok going to try to go to sleep now (as a side note, the Sahara, specifically the dunes at erg chegaga, is pretty amazing). All of the thoughtful commentary and cultural insight is very interesting and much appreciated.

I relate to this as well. I grew up with long family dinners, wine always at the table, manners, napkins on laps, please and thank you.

American family life has definitely scattered and been degraded. That said, I am much closer to my children than my mother was to me. We have a very good relationship. But their table manners (despite reminders) are very casual, napkins what’s that?

It’s absolutely the influence of social media. And since everyone is rushing rushing rushing, it’s hard to carve out leisurely dinners and long family conversations and story telling. I think it’s a dying art.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American who spends time in Stockholm and have observed this too, OP. I also notice a related phenomenon with family dogs when they are taken out in public. Swedish city-dwelling dogs have -excellent- manners and temperament compared to DC dogs — even the same breeds. It’s like they are all highly trained service dogs for the vision impaired. Calm and confident, never leash pulling or inappropriately interested in every stimulus.

With both kids and dogs, a large part of the presentation has to be expectations set at birth. But genetics must have something to do with it because you almost never see crying fussy babies in store or errands, which blows my mind. They’re all calm.

You’re either a liar or you spend your time there in bars and at corporate meetings.

The Swedes (even Stockholmers) are famous for allowing kids to act like kids in public and not batting an eye (either at their own or other peoples kids). That means you regularly see toddlers flinging themselves face down in the middle of public sidewalks or parks have full blown screaming temper tantrums while their parents patiently wait for them to stop. Most importantly, no one judges the parents or the kids because it’s natural.

As someone who lives in Germany, i wholeheartedly agree. I think some of these people sound a bit provincial and like theyre engaging in quite a bit of magical thinking: "Everyone in Europe is so sophisticated and perfect!" It's actually kind of comical to see.

[Anonymous]

European here. There was zero tolerance for misbehaving as a child, very strong boundaries, and spanking was NBD. My parents' life was not revolving around us, and we were encouraged to learn how to entertain ourselves without needing constant attention. Also sleep in huge on Europe, the US lifestyle is brutal on kids sometimes, because of the corporate culture and non-stop work. A lot of kids here don't get enough quality sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really do think that you're able to do more independently in parts of Europe from a safety perspective. In most metro cities, there's too much of a prob with allowing 7/8 yr olds riding public transportation alone - moreover if anyone saw it they were report it to the police!! LOL

Also in terms of culture and dining opportunities - we export McDonalds so you know, enough said!

In terms of "coddling" - well around the world in these countries with well behaved kids - you have govt sponsored programs from early ages. Families ie parents aren't stressed out and they can really spend time nurturing their kids, providing for meaningful habits and even education wise, do you know what the serve up at K-12 school in these countries?? I mean, the French kids in school prob eat better than most Americans! So from an early age, they are used to what we in the US deem adult food, manners, etc.

With older kids, the difference isn't that American kids are overscheduled but the activities are sports based. What mom do you know gets dolled up to go to soccer games for their multiple kids on weekends?! All we do here is drive to sports and wear hoodies

Your choice to over schedule your children so pls e blame on you.