European families appear so perfect with such well-behaved children - how do they do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American living in Western Europe. There are very high expectations for children in public places like restaurants and they get a lot of practice being in adult spaces from an early age. You would never, ever see a child with a screen of any type in a restaurant - even a parent’s phone. They learn to find other ways to be content while waiting for a meal. Most families don’t use screen time for long train rides either. Sport clothing is only for actually doing sports and even children wear “real” clothing everyday. And in general parents are actually less engaged in constantly stimulating their babies - you will see babies just contentedly sitting in their stroller watching the world go by while parents attend to other children. It’s all part of raising children to live in community and learn to respect the spaces around them. Even in schools they practice social behaviors.

As for the parents, there are significant tax credits that support hiring both a nanny and housekeeper, so parents aren’t so drained. Grandparents are also very involved. It means moms have time for self-care and that they have the patience to parent calmly when they are on-duty. Calm is in fact the most important part of family life. Calm children. Calm parent. I rarely see parents just lose it with their child.

That said, we live in one of the more “high expectations for children” counties. But every summer we go to Germany and just let our kids absolutely let loose digging and the mud and being wild because it’s more acceptable. It’s not all of Europe and parenting culture is very different by country!

Just stop. This isn’t true at all. Wages are much lower and it’s more difficult to outsource in Western Europe.

I’d argue my European friends do have more time with fewer work hours., but they spend the extra time doing things I can easily outsource.

To even suggest that the average European has a housekeeper is silly.

[Anonymous]

I think any European with a large family and traveling to Africa is likely higher income for Europe. Europeans have lower salaries and unless you have inherited wealth, a luxury hotel isn’t possible. A nice hotel in Morocco is something only the equivalent of a well to do European can afford.

You’d likely experience similar manners if you visited a high end resort or country club in the US.

[Anonymous]

Time + money + better schools.

Europeans generally have far more free time than Americans. They work fewer hours, August vacation month, paid maternal leave, siestas, there are landowners who haven't worked for generations, etc.

[Anonymous]

I really do think that you're able to do more independently in parts of Europe from a safety perspective. In most metro cities, there's too much of a prob with allowing 7/8 yr olds riding public transportation alone - moreover if anyone saw it they were report it to the police!! LOL

Also in terms of culture and dining opportunities - we export McDonalds so you know, enough said!

In terms of "coddling" - well around the world in these countries with well behaved kids - you have govt sponsored programs from early ages. Families ie parents aren't stressed out and they can really spend time nurturing their kids, providing for meaningful habits and even education wise, do you know what the serve up at K-12 school in these countries?? I mean, the French kids in school prob eat better than most Americans! So from an early age, they are used to what we in the US deem adult food, manners, etc.

With older kids, the difference isn't that American kids are overscheduled but the activities are sports based. What mom do you know gets dolled up to go to soccer games for their multiple kids on weekends?! All we do here is drive to sports and wear hoodies

[Anonymous]

Hmm. We have encountered European families on most vacations and have never experienced what you did, OP. They are always as frazzled as we are, and certainly not "perfect" seeming in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm not sure where you're getting this... vacation in Southeast Asia and you will see plenty of young European kids running amok and the parents not doing anything, lots of screaming and shouting.

But to that point, I think that's the major difference between American and European parenting. I live in Europe and it's not uncommon to see children riding the train alone- and I am not talking about 13 year olds, I'm talking about 7/8 year olds. It's also not uncommon to be out at a restaurant with parents sipping wine and the children are running around in a park nearby. IMO parenting is way more "hands off" than in America and the kids are expected to grow up earlier, have MUCH more autonomy and an expectation of that behavior. Also Europe is more confrontational, so if you do have a child that acts badly it wouldnt be considered that strange or wrong for another adult to come by and "correct" them by speaking to them harshly... whereas I think in America kids are kind of coddled, have extended periods of kind of "helpless childhood" and certainly it would be a faux pas for another adult to discipline a child.

Came here to make sure someone said this. Go to a really, really nice resort in Malaysia, a hotel in Singapore, or a fancy hotel in Japan and you’ll see European kids going feral. Same for fancy hotels in the U.S. that attract Europeans on vacation. I don’t know why they manage to behave so nicely at home and fall to pieces abroad, but they do.

[Anonymous]

I guess you have never vacationed in a place that is popular with Italian families because they seem to be oblivious to their own obnoxious behavior. Italy is in Europe last time I checked.

[Anonymous]

Somebody needs to tell the French kids who wouldn't shut up behind me at a West End show last night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time + money + better schools.

Europeans generally have far more free time than Americans. They work fewer hours, August vacation month, paid maternal leave, siestas, there are landowners who haven't worked for generations, etc.

Europeans are not destroying their public education system with idiotic ideas such as abolishing gifted and talented programs, discouraging homework, or de-tracking.

American public education is in a death-race to the bottom. It is largely driven by DEI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess you have never vacationed in a place that is popular with Italian families because they seem to be oblivious to their own obnoxious behavior. Italy is in Europe last time I checked.

Agree, and I think there's an important distinction between Italy and Greece (& probably others) and Northern Euro families.
The cultures are different -- Italy and Greece are closer to Latin American in the behavior/expectations of kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess you have never vacationed in a place that is popular with Italian families because they seem to be oblivious to their own obnoxious behavior. Italy is in Europe last time I checked.

Haha I just remembered being at Tivoli gardens in Copenhagen and seeing no less than three different Italian families letting their sons pee really get into the shrubbery. There are plenty of bathrooms and the park is beautifully landscaped!

[Anonymous]

It’s a narrow, simpler life. No adversities, very predictable, few real choices.

[Anonymous]

I'm from Europe and I don't think that's true at all. Little kids are little kids. They all tantrum/get fidgety when tired/cranky/asked to be still and quiet for too long. Some have better self-control and longer attention spans than others and it's not developmentally inappropriate to appear "poorly-behaved" at times. What matters is to take your child out to not bother others. You're also probably noticing what you want to notice to reinforce stereotypes. It's this weird thing Americans do, putting themselves down all the time.

[Anonymous]

I find European kids to mostly be delightful compared to average US kids. They are raised more traditionally. I have surrounded myself with families with more traditional values as well -- we don't think twice about correcting each others' children, etc. -- and think the rest of you have lost your minds.

[Anonymous]

One thing that can make a big difference: the degree to which kids are well-rested. Northern Europeans I know are really attentive to their children’s bedtimes.