FIL divested assets and now has no way to pay for MIL's nursing home care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

It's so hard not to stay involved.

FIL visits MIL every single day. On days he can't go and goes to his cabin, he asks DH to go and will say he does not want MIL to be alone. DH goes once a week and has been going on weekends to visit his mom when FIL is at his cabin.

There have been various miscommunications; FIL called DH a few weeks ago in tears and said, "[MIL] is in multi-system organ failure and is septic!" DH and I rushed to say our goodbyes. All the family gathered at BIL/FIL/SIL's house that evening to support him. Everyone was crying, thinking it was the end and we had to arrange funeral arrangements. Turns out, MIL was "at risk" of sepsis and MOS due to the amount of interventions she had.

The most recent issue is that FIL was informed MIL could not return home. We are unsure how that conversation went, if she is eligible for 100 days at an SNF paid under Medicare, or if she is not eligible for SNF care and has to move to a long-term care facility. When DH asks for clarification, FIL says he will update him or gives non-answers. I may be in the wrong here, but I feel DH has the right to know if it's recommended his mom move into long-term care permanently. We assume she needs the care, but we have no updates or information besides what FIL disseminated. DH has tried to call the facility for information but was told they can't share anything with him because he's not on the chart as a contact. DH does not want to ask his Dad to be included as a point of contact.

I agree with every PP that hospice and or palliative care would be a good option. Knowing MIL, this is not how she would have wanted to live. But that conversation is not for me - it's for the doctors and her care team to have with FIL. FIL does not include DH or any other family members in these conversations.

OP how are you protecting YOUR assets? What are you going to do when FIL begs you to get a home equity loan to pay for MIL’s nursing home? If you think there is any possibility of this, you need to get started on paperwork that would ensure FIL gives you the equity cabin outright to equal the money you give him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the details of the sale of their house to BIL? I don’t understand how they sold a house 3 years ago and have less than $50k in savings. Just how far below market price was the sale? Why would elderly people with modest savings think they could give $125,000 away? None of this makes any sense.

Ok, these aren't the exact details down to the dollar amount.

FIL inherited the home about 50 years ago. I believe it was mortgaged to 17K in the 1970s.
The house was sold for approximately ~450 in 2021.
325 was owed on the home. FIL did cash out refi's every few years.
The home was appraised at ~575 (DH and I assumed it would be worth 700K, but we were incorrect)
FIL "gifted" the 125K in equity to BIL and walked away with (roughly) 100K.

FIL spent about 40K on an exterior building on his cabin property, building a workshop for himself. He spent about an extra 10K on various things: diamond earrings for MIL, etc.

FIL gifted the equity to secure a quasi-tenantship in the home, to come/go as he and MIL please to attend her Dr's appointments. FIL never moved out of the home. All of the original belongings, furniture, clothing, and dishes remain. FIL and MIL still occupy the master bedroom. FIL lives there almost full-time now.

He didn’t gift the equity. He sold it for 125K less than appraisal which considering he still has all his crap there and is living in the master bedroom years later was a deal in his interest not the people who bought it.

It is unlikely that FIL would have actually gotten 575 without inspection and doing nothing to the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

It's so hard not to stay involved.

FIL visits MIL every single day. On days he can't go and goes to his cabin, he asks DH to go and will say he does not want MIL to be alone. DH goes once a week and has been going on weekends to visit his mom when FIL is at his cabin.

There have been various miscommunications; FIL called DH a few weeks ago in tears and said, "[MIL] is in multi-system organ failure and is septic!" DH and I rushed to say our goodbyes. All the family gathered at BIL/FIL/SIL's house that evening to support him. Everyone was crying, thinking it was the end and we had to arrange funeral arrangements. Turns out, MIL was "at risk" of sepsis and MOS due to the amount of interventions she had.

The most recent issue is that FIL was informed MIL could not return home. We are unsure how that conversation went, if she is eligible for 100 days at an SNF paid under Medicare, or if she is not eligible for SNF care and has to move to a long-term care facility. When DH asks for clarification, FIL says he will update him or gives non-answers. I may be in the wrong here, but I feel DH has the right to know if it's recommended his mom move into long-term care permanently. We assume she needs the care, but we have no updates or information besides what FIL disseminated. DH has tried to call the facility for information but was told they can't share anything with him because he's not on the chart as a contact. DH does not want to ask his Dad to be included as a point of contact.

I agree with every PP that hospice and or palliative care would be a good option. Knowing MIL, this is not how she would have wanted to live. But that conversation is not for me - it's for the doctors and her care team to have with FIL. FIL does not include DH or any other family members in these conversations.

OP how are you protecting YOUR assets? What are you going to do when FIL begs you to get a home equity loan to pay for MIL’s nursing home? If you think there is any possibility of this, you need to get started on paperwork that would ensure FIL gives you the equity cabin outright to equal the money you give him.

No do not give money as a trade for equity in that cabin, no no no! Stop the crazy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

It's so hard not to stay involved.

FIL visits MIL every single day. On days he can't go and goes to his cabin, he asks DH to go and will say he does not want MIL to be alone. DH goes once a week and has been going on weekends to visit his mom when FIL is at his cabin.

There have been various miscommunications; FIL called DH a few weeks ago in tears and said, "[MIL] is in multi-system organ failure and is septic!" DH and I rushed to say our goodbyes. All the family gathered at BIL/FIL/SIL's house that evening to support him. Everyone was crying, thinking it was the end and we had to arrange funeral arrangements. Turns out, MIL was "at risk" of sepsis and MOS due to the amount of interventions she had.

The most recent issue is that FIL was informed MIL could not return home. We are unsure how that conversation went, if she is eligible for 100 days at an SNF paid under Medicare, or if she is not eligible for SNF care and has to move to a long-term care facility. When DH asks for clarification, FIL says he will update him or gives non-answers. I may be in the wrong here, but I feel DH has the right to know if it's recommended his mom move into long-term care permanently. We assume she needs the care, but we have no updates or information besides what FIL disseminated. DH has tried to call the facility for information but was told they can't share anything with him because he's not on the chart as a contact. DH does not want to ask his Dad to be included as a point of contact.

I agree with every PP that hospice and or palliative care would be a good option. Knowing MIL, this is not how she would have wanted to live. But that conversation is not for me - it's for the doctors and her care team to have with FIL. FIL does not include DH or any other family members in these conversations.

OP how are you protecting YOUR assets? What are you going to do when FIL begs you to get a home equity loan to pay for MIL’s nursing home? If you think there is any possibility of this, you need to get started on paperwork that would ensure FIL gives you the equity cabin outright to equal the money you give him.

OP here - wait. How would our assets be impacted in any way? We didn't buy the home from FIL.

We have already been asked to help FIL with medical bills for MIL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the details of the sale of their house to BIL? I don’t understand how they sold a house 3 years ago and have less than $50k in savings. Just how far below market price was the sale? Why would elderly people with modest savings think they could give $125,000 away? None of this makes any sense.

Ok, these aren't the exact details down to the dollar amount.

FIL inherited the home about 50 years ago. I believe it was mortgaged to 17K in the 1970s.
The house was sold for approximately ~450 in 2021.
325 was owed on the home. FIL did cash out refi's every few years.
The home was appraised at ~575 (DH and I assumed it would be worth 700K, but we were incorrect)
FIL "gifted" the 125K in equity to BIL and walked away with (roughly) 100K.

FIL spent about 40K on an exterior building on his cabin property, building a workshop for himself. He spent about an extra 10K on various things: diamond earrings for MIL, etc.

FIL gifted the equity to secure a quasi-tenantship in the home, to come/go as he and MIL please to attend her Dr's appointments. FIL never moved out of the home. All of the original belongings, furniture, clothing, and dishes remain. FIL and MIL still occupy the master bedroom. FIL lives there almost full-time now.

He didn’t gift the equity. He sold it for 125K less than appraisal which considering he still has all his crap there and is living in the master bedroom years later was a deal in his interest not the people who bought it.

It is unlikely that FIL would have actually gotten 575 without inspection and doing nothing to the house.

It's good to summarize for the people who didn't read the previous threads.

FIL has made a series of bad decisions that are solely in his interest, and not those of BIL or his wife. BIL and wife are nowhere near "beneficiaries" in real life, but maybe considered so legally.

Anyway, all this is moot, because you must all push for hospice care for your poor MIL, who must not continue suffering like this. Please get this woman palliative care already. She probably doesn't have long.

[Anonymous]

These people are a train wreck. Stop getting so vested in this. You aren’t going to solve the problems.

Get on the same page with your husband that you will spend no more than $x per month helping with their financial mess. Get on the same page with your husband about the amount of time he can help with actual caretaking. And then stop talking about this or thinking about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

It's so hard not to stay involved.

FIL visits MIL every single day. On days he can't go and goes to his cabin, he asks DH to go and will say he does not want MIL to be alone. DH goes once a week and has been going on weekends to visit his mom when FIL is at his cabin.

There have been various miscommunications; FIL called DH a few weeks ago in tears and said, "[MIL] is in multi-system organ failure and is septic!" DH and I rushed to say our goodbyes. All the family gathered at BIL/FIL/SIL's house that evening to support him. Everyone was crying, thinking it was the end and we had to arrange funeral arrangements. Turns out, MIL was "at risk" of sepsis and MOS due to the amount of interventions she had.

The most recent issue is that FIL was informed MIL could not return home. We are unsure how that conversation went, if she is eligible for 100 days at an SNF paid under Medicare, or if she is not eligible for SNF care and has to move to a long-term care facility. When DH asks for clarification, FIL says he will update him or gives non-answers. I may be in the wrong here, but I feel DH has the right to know if it's recommended his mom move into long-term care permanently. We assume she needs the care, but we have no updates or information besides what FIL disseminated. DH has tried to call the facility for information but was told they can't share anything with him because he's not on the chart as a contact. DH does not want to ask his Dad to be included as a point of contact.

I agree with every PP that hospice and or palliative care would be a good option. Knowing MIL, this is not how she would have wanted to live. But that conversation is not for me - it's for the doctors and her care team to have with FIL. FIL does not include DH or any other family members in these conversations.

OP how are you protecting YOUR assets? What are you going to do when FIL begs you to get a home equity loan to pay for MIL’s nursing home? If you think there is any possibility of this, you need to get started on paperwork that would ensure FIL gives you the equity cabin outright to equal the money you give him.

OP here - wait. How would our assets be impacted in any way? We didn't buy the home from FIL.

We have already been asked to help FIL with medical bills for MIL.

What was the answer, OP? I hope it was no.

I'd really back away, the crazy train will keep running but you don't have to be on it.

FIL may wish to consult an elder care lawyer re: finances, better late than never.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

It's so hard not to stay involved.

FIL visits MIL every single day. On days he can't go and goes to his cabin, he asks DH to go and will say he does not want MIL to be alone. DH goes once a week and has been going on weekends to visit his mom when FIL is at his cabin.

There have been various miscommunications; FIL called DH a few weeks ago in tears and said, "[MIL] is in multi-system organ failure and is septic!" DH and I rushed to say our goodbyes. All the family gathered at BIL/FIL/SIL's house that evening to support him. Everyone was crying, thinking it was the end and we had to arrange funeral arrangements. Turns out, MIL was "at risk" of sepsis and MOS due to the amount of interventions she had.

The most recent issue is that FIL was informed MIL could not return home. We are unsure how that conversation went, if she is eligible for 100 days at an SNF paid under Medicare, or if she is not eligible for SNF care and has to move to a long-term care facility. When DH asks for clarification, FIL says he will update him or gives non-answers. I may be in the wrong here, but I feel DH has the right to know if it's recommended his mom move into long-term care permanently. We assume she needs the care, but we have no updates or information besides what FIL disseminated. DH has tried to call the facility for information but was told they can't share anything with him because he's not on the chart as a contact. DH does not want to ask his Dad to be included as a point of contact.

I agree with every PP that hospice and or palliative care would be a good option. Knowing MIL, this is not how she would have wanted to live. But that conversation is not for me - it's for the doctors and her care team to have with FIL. FIL does not include DH or any other family members in these conversations.

OP how are you protecting YOUR assets? What are you going to do when FIL begs you to get a home equity loan to pay for MIL’s nursing home? If you think there is any possibility of this, you need to get started on paperwork that would ensure FIL gives you the equity cabin outright to equal the money you give him.

OP here - wait. How would our assets be impacted in any way? We didn't buy the home from FIL.

We have already been asked to help FIL with medical bills for MIL.

What was the answer, OP? I hope it was no.

I'd really back away, the crazy train will keep running but you don't have to be on it.

FIL may wish to consult an elder care lawyer re: finances, better late than never.

We just said we couldn't help, but we offered to help in other ways: inviting FIL for dinner, driving him to the hospital, and making extra visits. I offered to help clean/sanitize their home when we originally thought MIL would be coming home.

We have a costly daycare bill right now that is equal to our mortgage. We don't have much extra money until DS starts kindergarten in the fall.

[Anonymous]

OP make sure you and your husband do not mention that costly daycare ends in the fall! Aftercare and camps during breaks really adds up. Kids bring other expenses and you need to be saving for retirement and college.

Do not give up your own family’s needs so that FIL gets to keep his cabin. His bad financial decisions are his debts not yours. He may need to find low income senior housing and not go live n his dream cabin or the house he already sold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP make sure you and your husband do not mention that costly daycare ends in the fall! Aftercare and camps during breaks really adds up. Kids bring other expenses and you need to be saving for retirement and college.

Do not give up your own family’s needs so that FIL gets to keep his cabin. His bad financial decisions are his debts not yours. He may need to find low income senior housing and not go live n his dream cabin or the house he already sold.

DH and I discussed this last night: How would FIL possibly pay for MIL's care? We also discussed whether FIL would ever be able to sell his home.

We wouldn't be able to buy a second home at this point. Even if we were financially able to do so, it wouldn't be FIL's home. We saw firsthand that FIL does not leave properties he sells. Other family members use the home for vacation when FIL is out of town. We would deal with additional family members using the home and paying for extra water/electricity/etc. DH was a hard no on this.

I wish DH could worry about his Mom and spend quality time. DH needs to support FIL emotionally more than his mom at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

It's so hard not to stay involved.

FIL visits MIL every single day. On days he can't go and goes to his cabin, he asks DH to go and will say he does not want MIL to be alone. DH goes once a week and has been going on weekends to visit his mom when FIL is at his cabin.

There have been various miscommunications; FIL called DH a few weeks ago in tears and said, "[MIL] is in multi-system organ failure and is septic!" DH and I rushed to say our goodbyes. All the family gathered at BIL/FIL/SIL's house that evening to support him. Everyone was crying, thinking it was the end and we had to arrange funeral arrangements. Turns out, MIL was "at risk" of sepsis and MOS due to the amount of interventions she had.

The most recent issue is that FIL was informed MIL could not return home. We are unsure how that conversation went, if she is eligible for 100 days at an SNF paid under Medicare, or if she is not eligible for SNF care and has to move to a long-term care facility. When DH asks for clarification, FIL says he will update him or gives non-answers. I may be in the wrong here, but I feel DH has the right to know if it's recommended his mom move into long-term care permanently. We assume she needs the care, but we have no updates or information besides what FIL disseminated. DH has tried to call the facility for information but was told they can't share anything with him because he's not on the chart as a contact. DH does not want to ask his Dad to be included as a point of contact.

I agree with every PP that hospice and or palliative care would be a good option. Knowing MIL, this is not how she would have wanted to live. But that conversation is not for me - it's for the doctors and her care team to have with FIL. FIL does not include DH or any other family members in these conversations.

OP how are you protecting YOUR assets? What are you going to do when FIL begs you to get a home equity loan to pay for MIL’s nursing home? If you think there is any possibility of this, you need to get started on paperwork that would ensure FIL gives you the equity cabin outright to equal the money you give him.

OP here - wait. How would our assets be impacted in any way? We didn't buy the home from FIL.

We have already been asked to help FIL with medical bills for MIL.

What was the answer, OP? I hope it was no.

I'd really back away, the crazy train will keep running but you don't have to be on it.

FIL may wish to consult an elder care lawyer re: finances, better late than never.

We just said we couldn't help, but we offered to help in other ways: inviting FIL for dinner, driving him to the hospital, and making extra visits. I offered to help clean/sanitize their home when we originally thought MIL would be coming home.

We have a costly daycare bill right now that is equal to our mortgage. We don't have much extra money until DS starts kindergarten in the fall.

Don't have it available then, either, OP. Put it in 529 or retirement savings.

This situation is a train wreck and someone in the family needs to stop the codependence and enmeshment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

It's so hard not to stay involved.

FIL visits MIL every single day. On days he can't go and goes to his cabin, he asks DH to go and will say he does not want MIL to be alone. DH goes once a week and has been going on weekends to visit his mom when FIL is at his cabin.

There have been various miscommunications; FIL called DH a few weeks ago in tears and said, "[MIL] is in multi-system organ failure and is septic!" DH and I rushed to say our goodbyes. All the family gathered at BIL/FIL/SIL's house that evening to support him. Everyone was crying, thinking it was the end and we had to arrange funeral arrangements. Turns out, MIL was "at risk" of sepsis and MOS due to the amount of interventions she had.

The most recent issue is that FIL was informed MIL could not return home. We are unsure how that conversation went, if she is eligible for 100 days at an SNF paid under Medicare, or if she is not eligible for SNF care and has to move to a long-term care facility. When DH asks for clarification, FIL says he will update him or gives non-answers. I may be in the wrong here, but I feel DH has the right to know if it's recommended his mom move into long-term care permanently. We assume she needs the care, but we have no updates or information besides what FIL disseminated. DH has tried to call the facility for information but was told they can't share anything with him because he's not on the chart as a contact. DH does not want to ask his Dad to be included as a point of contact.

I agree with every PP that hospice and or palliative care would be a good option. Knowing MIL, this is not how she would have wanted to live. But that conversation is not for me - it's for the doctors and her care team to have with FIL. FIL does not include DH or any other family members in these conversations.

FIL may be unclear as well. Usually the patient has to be progressing in rehab for Medicare to pay. 100 days is not guaranteed even in circumstances that are better than what your MIL’s sounds like. I assume they haven’t been able to do any sort of PT from what you posted. The standard is “ But beware: not everyone receives 100 days of Medicare coverage in a skilled nursing facility. Coverage will end within the 100 days if the resident stops making progress in their rehabilitation (i.e. they “plateau”) and/or if rehabilitation will not help the resident maintain their skill level. Coverage will also be terminated if the resident refuses to participate in rehabilitation.”

https://conaelderlaw.com/the-myth-of-100-days-of-medicare-coverage-in-a-skilled-nursing-facility/

As other pps mentioned it sounds like FIL really needs a consult with an elder law attorney and to get in touch with the free resources available to him.

[Anonymous]

I am flabbergasted that BIL did not recognizes this was a terrible idea for his parents from the beginning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the details of the sale of their house to BIL? I don’t understand how they sold a house 3 years ago and have less than $50k in savings. Just how far below market price was the sale? Why would elderly people with modest savings think they could give $125,000 away? None of this makes any sense.

Ok, these aren't the exact details down to the dollar amount.

FIL inherited the home about 50 years ago. I believe it was mortgaged to 17K in the 1970s.
The house was sold for approximately ~450 in 2021.
325 was owed on the home. FIL did cash out refi's every few years.
The home was appraised at ~575 (DH and I assumed it would be worth 700K, but we were incorrect)
FIL "gifted" the 125K in equity to BIL and walked away with (roughly) 100K.

FIL spent about 40K on an exterior building on his cabin property, building a workshop for himself. He spent about an extra 10K on various things: diamond earrings for MIL, etc.

FIL gifted the equity to secure a quasi-tenantship in the home, to come/go as he and MIL please to attend her Dr's appointments. FIL never moved out of the home. All of the original belongings, furniture, clothing, and dishes remain. FIL and MIL still occupy the master bedroom. FIL lives there almost full-time now.

He didn’t gift the equity. He sold it for 125K less than appraisal which considering he still has all his crap there and is living in the master bedroom years later was a deal in his interest not the people who bought it.

It is unlikely that FIL would have actually gotten 575 without inspection and doing nothing to the house.

yeah well, that’s not how the government sees it. if he wanted to make some kind of bona fide deal, he should have done it in writing. now he’s screwed himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

It's so hard not to stay involved.

FIL visits MIL every single day. On days he can't go and goes to his cabin, he asks DH to go and will say he does not want MIL to be alone. DH goes once a week and has been going on weekends to visit his mom when FIL is at his cabin.

There have been various miscommunications; FIL called DH a few weeks ago in tears and said, "[MIL] is in multi-system organ failure and is septic!" DH and I rushed to say our goodbyes. All the family gathered at BIL/FIL/SIL's house that evening to support him. Everyone was crying, thinking it was the end and we had to arrange funeral arrangements. Turns out, MIL was "at risk" of sepsis and MOS due to the amount of interventions she had.

The most recent issue is that FIL was informed MIL could not return home. We are unsure how that conversation went, if she is eligible for 100 days at an SNF paid under Medicare, or if she is not eligible for SNF care and has to move to a long-term care facility. When DH asks for clarification, FIL says he will update him or gives non-answers. I may be in the wrong here, but I feel DH has the right to know if it's recommended his mom move into long-term care permanently. We assume she needs the care, but we have no updates or information besides what FIL disseminated. DH has tried to call the facility for information but was told they can't share anything with him because he's not on the chart as a contact. DH does not want to ask his Dad to be included as a point of contact.

I agree with every PP that hospice and or palliative care would be a good option. Knowing MIL, this is not how she would have wanted to live. But that conversation is not for me - it's for the doctors and her care team to have with FIL. FIL does not include DH or any other family members in these conversations.

OP how are you protecting YOUR assets? What are you going to do when FIL begs you to get a home equity loan to pay for MIL’s nursing home? If you think there is any possibility of this, you need to get started on paperwork that would ensure FIL gives you the equity cabin outright to equal the money you give him.

No do not give money as a trade for equity in that cabin, no no no! Stop the crazy!

I don’t think she SHOULD do this, but it’s inevitably where things are headed. When/if her DH starts to say they need to give FIL money she needs to be prepared.