FIL divested assets and now has no way to pay for MIL's nursing home care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so sorry to say this at what is an incredibly devastating and stressful time, but please consider that your mother in law may be a better candidate for hospice than a long term care facility. If she is not eating, and in the state you describe... it can be very hard for family to see that it is time to transition to end of life care, as opposed to prolonging life. I say this as someone whose own grandfather had serious and unnecessary surgery about a week before he died. We would have been better off discussing a palliative care plan, but were all in denial. I wish you all the best as you navigate this incredibly challenging situation.

OP here. She is a DNR at this time so if she does decline it will be the end. FIL does not include my husband in the healthcare conversations - but I doubt hospice care has been brought up. She would be eligible for a palliative care referral, though.

Your husband needs to push this with his brother and sister. He can explain it from a "don't let Mom suffer" point of view, and also "Brother, you're going to lose the house you went through hell to get" point of view. Then they can all work on their father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've posted about my ILs before. My FIL has three adult children, including my husband.

FIL sold his house to my BIL (husband's brother and his wife) 3 years ago. He sold the house under fair market value and gifted 125K in equity to BIL and his wife. The gift was so he and MIL could remain at the home as needed, close to MIL's medical care team. They planned to live in a remote cabin 90 minutes from the city. They found themselves only able to say for 1-2 weeks at a time due to MIL's frequent hospitalizations. My MIL has poorly controlled epilepsy and other neurological issues that affect her memory, balance, coordination, and overall functioning. She needed reminders to eat; FIL managed all the finances. She was not able to drive.

Roughly two months ago, she underwent the preparation for a routine colonoscopy, vomited her epilepsy medication, and went into respiratory arrest. She ended up ventilated in the ICU and was discharged to an acute, long-term care hospital. She now has a tracheostomy. She has come off the ventilator and is not eating. Her cognition is very poor - she knows who she and her husband are but does not recognize my husband. She doesn't know where she lives. She hasn't been able to get out of bed in 60 days or be able to start any speech, PT, or OT. She can't follow a two-step command, which is a safety risk. She is still in soft restraints because her limbs appear to have a mind of their own (she's constantly moving her legs and arms up in the air, whacking the nurses, and trying to pull out her NG tube). The doctors are recommending long-term care for my MIL.

Except—FIL divested 125K of his assets to "keep the family home in the family" and be close to MIL's care team. Social workers told him at the hospital he would be subject to the Medicaid 5-year lookback period. MIL receives social security and disability. FIL has an employment pension and social security. MIL cannot afford a nursing home on her income. FIL is not eligible for the live-in caregiver exemption (if the house is sold to an adult child who acted as a significant caregiver for 2+ years), nor could it be seen as an extraordinary, unforeseen event because MIL's health has declined for the past ten years. They don't have significant savings (less than 50k) and could be penalized at $391/day for about ten months. The only possible way is for BIL to sell the house he bought from FIL and give the money back, then use the funds towards MIL's care until Medicaid can kick in.

Has anyone been through something similar? I have no idea what to suggest to FIL. He is beside himself over this. He has about 2-3 weeks left before the LTACH is looking to discharge her.

He can get a home equity loan, both he and his wife can take a 401k loan, or pay the daily penalty for his mother.

Before roping back in BIL and his wife, who have suffered already at the hands of OP's spectacularly destructive FIL, it's worth everyone's while to pay for a consult with the appropriate lawyer.

Benefitted. They received a gift of 150k that they didn’t need to accept.

You don't know the backstory. FIL and MIL imposed for years on BIL and his wife. The wife had it up to there with the in-laws. The entire family saga is FIL forcing everyone to accept his dictates. At least, that's what I recollect from OP's previous posts.

And I agree with the other poster who says hospice. It's the humane thing to do: palliative care only.

None if that changes that the BIL and wife have financially benefited in this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am so sorry to say this at what is an incredibly devastating and stressful time, but please consider that your mother in law may be a better candidate for hospice than a long term care facility. If she is not eating, and in the state you describe... it can be very hard for family to see that it is time to transition to end of life care, as opposed to prolonging life. I say this as someone whose own grandfather had serious and unnecessary surgery about a week before he died. We would have been better off discussing a palliative care plan, but were all in denial. I wish you all the best as you navigate this incredibly challenging situation.

+1
Bring her home, have hospice care to make her comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Why does she have an NG tube? Seems cruel.

[Anonymous]

Your FIL’s logic lost me at selling a house and moving to a cabin to be close to her medical care team. They had to leave the cabin to return for medical care so I do not get how he thinks moving further away is moving closer.

He wanted to avoid having to pay for her care and have Medicare do it? Yikes!

[Anonymous]

All of these people are terrible decision makers. I would try not to touch this with a ten foot pole as the DIL. I would tell my husband (behind the scenes) that (I) they really need to think about doing hospice and letting this woman go or (II) dad needs to find a lawyer. And then, I would move on other than any specific support my husband needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your FIL’s logic lost me at selling a house and moving to a cabin to be close to her medical care team. They had to leave the cabin to return for medical care so I do not get how he thinks moving further away is moving closer.

He wanted to avoid having to pay for her care and have Medicare do it? Yikes!

He did the opposite. He sold his primary home and moved to their vacation home, further away from her care team. His plan was they would come back every few months or so for MIL's check-ups. It never ended up that way. My MIL had repeated, uncontrolled seizures every 1-2 weeks.

It was their retirement plan all along. I think there was some cognitive dissonance about MIL's health needs. It's kind of sad when you think about it. I don't think anyone's retirement plan is to be a full-time caregiver and spend their entire nest egg.

[Anonymous]

Can't he sell the cabin?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

Probably won't cover all the costs, and he can't do that in such a short timeframe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so sorry to say this at what is an incredibly devastating and stressful time, but please consider that your mother in law may be a better candidate for hospice than a long term care facility. If she is not eating, and in the state you describe... it can be very hard for family to see that it is time to transition to end of life care, as opposed to prolonging life. I say this as someone whose own grandfather had serious and unnecessary surgery about a week before he died. We would have been better off discussing a palliative care plan, but were all in denial. I wish you all the best as you navigate this incredibly challenging situation.

+1
Bring her home, have hospice care to make her comfortable.

+1 to this. Incredibly sad situation, but hospice seems like the best option. How old is MIL?

PSA for the rest of us: At 70 and after you should question your Dr. whether a routine colonoscopy is really a good idea, especially if you have other health issues. The prep is really hard on you the older you get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so sorry to say this at what is an incredibly devastating and stressful time, but please consider that your mother in law may be a better candidate for hospice than a long term care facility. If she is not eating, and in the state you describe... it can be very hard for family to see that it is time to transition to end of life care, as opposed to prolonging life. I say this as someone whose own grandfather had serious and unnecessary surgery about a week before he died. We would have been better off discussing a palliative care plan, but were all in denial. I wish you all the best as you navigate this incredibly challenging situation.

+1
Bring her home, have hospice care to make her comfortable.

+1 to this. Incredibly sad situation, but hospice seems like the best option. How old is MIL?

PSA for the rest of us: At 70 and after you should question your Dr. whether a routine colonoscopy is really a good idea, especially if you have other health issues. The prep is really hard on you the older you get.

Re: PSA colonoscopy-yes! Just went through this disaster of colonoscopy prep with my aging and ailing MIL, 74.

She misunderstood the directions and began following a liquid diet, basically jello and sprite and broth for several days, fainted from low blood sugar and went to the ER. Doctors there intervened and canceled her colonoscopy. She has other cognitive and memory issues and high cholesterol that are taking my FIL an extraordinarily long time to get properly diagnosed and treated. Colonoscopy fell to last on the list of her needed diagnostic tests.

[Anonymous]

OP I remember your prior post. Sorry that you are dealing with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

Denial has been going on for years in their family. Denial of the seriousness of MIL's health conditions and the failure to make any kind of plan for her ongoing care. Denial that four adults living together would be a bad plan.

FIL would probably try to convince my husband OR my other SIL/BIL to buy his cabin from him before he sold it to unknown buyers.