FIL divested assets and now has no way to pay for MIL's nursing home care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your FIL’s logic lost me at selling a house and moving to a cabin to be close to her medical care team. They had to leave the cabin to return for medical care so I do not get how he thinks moving further away is moving closer.

He wanted to avoid having to pay for her care and have Medicare do it? Yikes!

I think the plan originally was that they sold the house the brother-in-law so they could stay in the house when she needed routine medical care like doctor's visits and then the rest of the time they would live in the cabin but then her health deteriorated to too much to live in the cabin

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised she has an NG tube instead of a PEG tube.

I've seen lots of patients like your MIL. The humane thing to do is palliative care. I know you have no say in it. The number of family members who prolong someone's life is way too high. It's so selfish.

[Anonymous]

What were the details of the sale of their house to BIL? I don’t understand how they sold a house 3 years ago and have less than $50k in savings. Just how far below market price was the sale? Why would elderly people with modest savings think they could give $125,000 away? None of this makes any sense.

[Anonymous]

Elder care attorney- now.

[Anonymous]

"...He has about 2-3 weeks left before the LTACH is looking to discharge her."

I suggest you contact your State Elder Care Ombudsman's office (all States have them as required by law) and open up a case. It is free.

Long term care facilities cannot just discharge a person in your MIL's condition without other arrangements for care being in place - they often use this fear tactic on families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"...He has about 2-3 weeks left before the LTACH is looking to discharge her."

I suggest you contact your State Elder Care Ombudsman's office (all States have them as required by law) and open up a case. It is free.

Long term care facilities cannot just discharge a person in your MIL's condition without other arrangements for care being in place - they often use this fear tactic on families.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Elder care attorney- now.

This 100%! There's a lot to navigate here, so you absolutely need an experienced professional.

Also, see if you can get a care manager through MIL's doctors. They can help navigate the best care for her situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elder care attorney- now.

This 100%! There's a lot to navigate here, so you absolutely need an experienced professional.

Also, see if you can get a care manager through MIL's doctors. They can help navigate the best care for her situation.

How can they afford a lawyer on top of everything else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What were the details of the sale of their house to BIL? I don’t understand how they sold a house 3 years ago and have less than $50k in savings. Just how far below market price was the sale? Why would elderly people with modest savings think they could give $125,000 away? None of this makes any sense.

Ok, these aren't the exact details down to the dollar amount.

FIL inherited the home about 50 years ago. I believe it was mortgaged to 17K in the 1970s.
The house was sold for approximately ~450 in 2021.
325 was owed on the home. FIL did cash out refi's every few years.
The home was appraised at ~575 (DH and I assumed it would be worth 700K, but we were incorrect)
FIL "gifted" the 125K in equity to BIL and walked away with (roughly) 100K.

FIL spent about 40K on an exterior building on his cabin property, building a workshop for himself. He spent about an extra 10K on various things: diamond earrings for MIL, etc.

FIL gifted the equity to secure a quasi-tenantship in the home, to come/go as he and MIL please to attend her Dr's appointments. FIL never moved out of the home. All of the original belongings, furniture, clothing, and dishes remain. FIL and MIL still occupy the master bedroom. FIL lives there almost full-time now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the details of the sale of their house to BIL? I don’t understand how they sold a house 3 years ago and have less than $50k in savings. Just how far below market price was the sale? Why would elderly people with modest savings think they could give $125,000 away? None of this makes any sense.

Ok, these aren't the exact details down to the dollar amount.

FIL inherited the home about 50 years ago. I believe it was mortgaged to 17K in the 1970s.
The house was sold for approximately ~450 in 2021.
325 was owed on the home. FIL did cash out refi's every few years.
The home was appraised at ~575 (DH and I assumed it would be worth 700K, but we were incorrect)
FIL "gifted" the 125K in equity to BIL and walked away with (roughly) 100K.

FIL spent about 40K on an exterior building on his cabin property, building a workshop for himself. He spent about an extra 10K on various things: diamond earrings for MIL, etc.

FIL gifted the equity to secure a quasi-tenantship in the home, to come/go as he and MIL please to attend her Dr's appointments. FIL never moved out of the home. All of the original belongings, furniture, clothing, and dishes remain. FIL and MIL still occupy the master bedroom. FIL lives there almost full-time now.

Good Lord.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

Well then that’s FIL’s problem to solve.

Have you make clear to your DH that you aren’t giving FIL any money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What were the details of the sale of their house to BIL? I don’t understand how they sold a house 3 years ago and have less than $50k in savings. Just how far below market price was the sale? Why would elderly people with modest savings think they could give $125,000 away? None of this makes any sense.

He probably got some cash from the sale and thought the $125,000 discount would guarantee continuing right to stay there. Also he may have indeed been trying to hide assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't he sell the cabin?

The living situation was already fraught with significant tension (see here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1174345.page).

OP here - I can't imagine FIL selling the cabin he poured his heart and soul into. Also, he financed his original home several times to pay for the building costs of the cabin, upgrades, etc.

So you think the "only possible way" is to sell the primary home that 4 people, including BIL and SIL, are living in. Because he poured his heart and soul into the cabin? OP, I think there's some denial going on here.

FIL wants to hang onto the cabin because in his mind that's the love nest for his next wife.

OP, If I were you I'd stay out of this except to murmur "Oh that's too bad" or "Gee that sounds hard" at appropriate intervals. There is nothing for you to do here.

It's so hard not to stay involved.

FIL visits MIL every single day. On days he can't go and goes to his cabin, he asks DH to go and will say he does not want MIL to be alone. DH goes once a week and has been going on weekends to visit his mom when FIL is at his cabin.

There have been various miscommunications; FIL called DH a few weeks ago in tears and said, "[MIL] is in multi-system organ failure and is septic!" DH and I rushed to say our goodbyes. All the family gathered at BIL/FIL/SIL's house that evening to support him. Everyone was crying, thinking it was the end and we had to arrange funeral arrangements. Turns out, MIL was "at risk" of sepsis and MOS due to the amount of interventions she had.

The most recent issue is that FIL was informed MIL could not return home. We are unsure how that conversation went, if she is eligible for 100 days at an SNF paid under Medicare, or if she is not eligible for SNF care and has to move to a long-term care facility. When DH asks for clarification, FIL says he will update him or gives non-answers. I may be in the wrong here, but I feel DH has the right to know if it's recommended his mom move into long-term care permanently. We assume she needs the care, but we have no updates or information besides what FIL disseminated. DH has tried to call the facility for information but was told they can't share anything with him because he's not on the chart as a contact. DH does not want to ask his Dad to be included as a point of contact.

I agree with every PP that hospice and or palliative care would be a good option. Knowing MIL, this is not how she would have wanted to live. But that conversation is not for me - it's for the doctors and her care team to have with FIL. FIL does not include DH or any other family members in these conversations.