when the grandparents leave

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only do grandparents tend to be older now, what is seen as good parenting has become more and more intensive over time. This means that
1. Current grandparents are happier to be out of the parenting role because they did more for and with their kids than their parents had to do. Many of the current grandparents were the first in the family with the mom working and raising kids, no wonder they are tired.
2. It also means that it’s harder for grandparents to take care of todays kids. My mom sent us to grandma’s house for the weekend, but my grandma didn’t have to watch us as intensely as kids get now. We’d go play in The neighborhood; much easier for my grandma, who in Todays world might be expected to play games and engage the kids the whole time.

3. Also means that todays parents need more help because this expectation of intensive parenting is really hard.

X1000! Kidnappings are incredibly rare today compared to the 1980s but parents today are enraged at the thought 5yos+ playing outside by themselves.

My grandmother was the same way. She had things to do in the house so as kids we were turned outside after breakfast and then after lunch to play. And we had a blast. We didn’t need adults or technology to engage us because we had imaginations.

Also, read this forum and the million posts about how incompetent older people are. It’s amazing the complaints fellow Millenials have about their parents but then in the same breath whine that their parents won’t help care for grandkids.

Yea I think the issue is sort of you reap what you sow. Like I know exactly how much help my mom provided and I’ll return the favor. And it wasn’t insignificant! But I owe her a couple weeks here and there about 5 times. And not for any emergencies.

My parents were not really able to travel when we had young kids. Once I was struck by the flu with 14 month old twins and DH out of the country for work. He tried to get his younger and much more able bodied mom with total control over her schedule to come but she refused to do it because she was "there for the fun stuff, not this drudgery." I have now helped her out a few times with "this drudgery" over the last few years between her health issues as well as FiL's. I can't help but think about her refusing to come, but push on as my now deceased parents would expect me to do this for someone in need. I also want to model that behavior for my now much older kids.

[Anonymous]

If I were a grandparent of the kids of a DCUM mom I’d never want to help any of you either. You’re all so nasty when it comes to your parents. You don’t deserve their help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems there's a rise of grandparents who really don't want to take care of little kids, even just for a weekend. At least this is what I'm seeing a lot in my various circles. They're more tired and less tolerant than what I remember grandparents being like when I was a kid.

Do you think they want to more fully check out, or at least give themselves a simpler reason to not be involved?

It’s not their role to take care of little kids. That’s the role of parents.

And of course this generation of grandparents are more tired. Retirement ages have pushed back significantly. Gone are the days of retirement pay starting between 50-55. And when their kids don’t start having kids until they are late 30s, grandparents are much older too.

Disagree. I actually have read articles where scientists hypothesize that menopause is so that human women have time to focus on their grandchildren and helping them (ensuring that their family line goes on) instead of continuing to have children. Most mammals don't have menopause.

It might not be the role of grandparents now to take care of grandkids, but don't pretend that wasn't their role for centuries. Not to 100% babysit grandkids, but to assist and help while the moms did the major chores and had babies.

I've seen a lot of grandparents arrive right after a new grandchild's birth, take lots of photos, expect for the new mom and dad to cook for them and host them in their guest room, entertain them, and then they leave.

I have actually read articles about the reduction in "caring hormones" in women at menopause and how women are less inclined to care for others after spending decades doing so as a result of that reduction.

I would love a side thread on this. Either way it lands would be fascinating.

https://www.marieclaire.co.uk/life/health-fitness/the-menopause-advice-jennifer-nadel-715355

Just as puberty ushers in a new stage of life, so does the menopause. It’s when we as women can step into our full power. We are no longer weighed down by periods and the possibility of pregnancy. The hormones that have made us impeccable carers have begun to disappear and we find ourselves better able to detach from those we love and to break out of any co-dependent traps.

I went from smother-mother to slob-mum at lightning speed. Instead of hovering over my three sons’ feelings and actions I became laissez-faire. ‘It’s their lives, I’m sure they’ll sort it out’ replaced ‘let me do it for you’.

That cauldron of rage that boiled over in my failing marriage became the furnace for alchemic change. What did I want to do with the time I had left? What were the things that mattered most to me? Who did I really want to be with? Or more basic still, ‘who was I really’? After all those years of working, caring and achieving it became time to step back and take stock.

We all know about the male mid-life crisis, but how many know that in fact more women leave their partners in their fifties than vice versa? I’ve had girlfriends walk out on seemingly happy twenty-year marriages for younger men or female lovers. Free from the choke-grip of our caring hormones a whole wealth of opportunities opens up.

https://www.menopause.org/docs/default-document-library/careberg.pdf?sfvrsn=2

https://www.avogel.co.uk/health/menopause/videos/can-menopause-cause-emotional-detachment/#:~:text=Sometimes%2C%20it's%20a%20fact%20%2D%20you,with%20daily%20life%20can%20decrease.

Why does menopause cause emotional detachment?
So, let's take a look at a few ways in which menopause can cause you to feel emotionally detached:

Oxytocin levels - one of the things that is thought to cause emotional detachment is the decrease of a hormone called oxytocin. Oxytocin is called your love hormone. You're flooded with it when you give birth so that you will fall in love with your baby. When you start a relationship and you fall in love, there is oodles of oxytocin swimming around your system.

There does seem to be a link, however, between the level of oestrogen and the level of oxytocin. As your oestrogen starts to fall in perimenopause and in menopause, the levels of oxytocin can decrease. This just makes it more difficult to form or continue with the relationships you have because that love hormone just isn't there or there's very little of it.

Stress and fatigue - at this time, most people are stressed and fatigued. Sometimes, it's a fact - you just can't be bothered with other people because you're too tired and all you want to do is sleep or rest.

Emotional defence mechanism - during menopause, there are all these changes going on, and sometimes, your ability to cope with daily life can decrease. And because of all the hormonal changes going on, it make certain areas of your life seem more difficult. Work might be more challenging. Relationships that are maybe a little bit difficult to start with seem more challenging and much more difficult to cope with.

Your body creates this defence mechanism by shutting you off from everything so that you don't actually feel any of these extra emotions that you may have had to deal with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only do grandparents tend to be older now, what is seen as good parenting has become more and more intensive over time. This means that
1. Current grandparents are happier to be out of the parenting role because they did more for and with their kids than their parents had to do. Many of the current grandparents were the first in the family with the mom working and raising kids, no wonder they are tired.
2. It also means that it’s harder for grandparents to take care of todays kids. My mom sent us to grandma’s house for the weekend, but my grandma didn’t have to watch us as intensely as kids get now. We’d go play in The neighborhood; much easier for my grandma, who in Todays world might be expected to play games and engage the kids the whole time.

3. Also means that todays parents need more help because this expectation of intensive parenting is really hard.

X1000! Kidnappings are incredibly rare today compared to the 1980s but parents today are enraged at the thought 5yos+ playing outside by themselves.

My grandmother was the same way. She had things to do in the house so as kids we were turned outside after breakfast and then after lunch to play. And we had a blast. We didn’t need adults or technology to engage us because we had imaginations.

Also, read this forum and the million posts about how incompetent older people are. It’s amazing the complaints fellow Millenials have about their parents but then in the same breath whine that their parents won’t help care for grandkids.

Yea I think the issue is sort of you reap what you sow. Like I know exactly how much help my mom provided and I’ll return the favor. And it wasn’t insignificant! But I owe her a couple weeks here and there about 5 times. And not for any emergencies.

My parents were not really able to travel when we had young kids. Once I was struck by the flu with 14 month old twins and DH out of the country for work. He tried to get his younger and much more able bodied mom with total control over her schedule to come but she refused to do it because she was "there for the fun stuff, not this drudgery." I have now helped her out a few times with "this drudgery" over the last few years between her health issues as well as FiL's. I can't help but think about her refusing to come, but push on as my now deceased parents would expect me to do this for someone in need. I also want to model that behavior for my now much older kids.

I would talk to her about it. If you aren't able to let it go then you owe it to yourself to clear the air. It's likely not going to change anything but you won't feel like you stuffed it down f9r the rest of your/her life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems there's a rise of grandparents who really don't want to take care of little kids, even just for a weekend. At least this is what I'm seeing a lot in my various circles. They're more tired and less tolerant than what I remember grandparents being like when I was a kid.

Do you think they want to more fully check out, or at least give themselves a simpler reason to not be involved?

So sad. My dad passed away 5 years ago and he was sooooo involved and loved to be with his grandsons (5 grandkids). He was on the sidelines of all of their sports' games, came to school events, talked to them about all kinds of things. Bonded over the love of history with my oldest and sports trivia with the youngest. He always was there to make them laugh. My mom was at the games too and did all kinds of arts and crafts with them, baked with them, etc. They took them to the movies when they were younger, etc.

My own grandparents were over 6 hours a way and we only saw them once a year. I see the difference in relationships and I am really thankful my kids had the monthly sleepovers with my mom and dad.

I am really sad my dad missed the teen years with my boys because they were so incredibly close to him and he really made a huge difference in their lives for the better.

You had a great dad. My dad is like that and so is my mom. I am so blessed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only do grandparents tend to be older now, what is seen as good parenting has become more and more intensive over time. This means that
1. Current grandparents are happier to be out of the parenting role because they did more for and with their kids than their parents had to do. Many of the current grandparents were the first in the family with the mom working and raising kids, no wonder they are tired.
2. It also means that it’s harder for grandparents to take care of todays kids. My mom sent us to grandma’s house for the weekend, but my grandma didn’t have to watch us as intensely as kids get now. We’d go play in The neighborhood; much easier for my grandma, who in Todays world might be expected to play games and engage the kids the whole time.

3. Also means that todays parents need more help because this expectation of intensive parenting is really hard.

X1000! Kidnappings are incredibly rare today compared to the 1980s but parents today are enraged at the thought 5yos+ playing outside by themselves.

My grandmother was the same way. She had things to do in the house so as kids we were turned outside after breakfast and then after lunch to play. And we had a blast. We didn’t need adults or technology to engage us because we had imaginations.

Also, read this forum and the million posts about how incompetent older people are. It’s amazing the complaints fellow Millenials have about their parents but then in the same breath whine that their parents won’t help care for grandkids.

Yea I think the issue is sort of you reap what you sow. Like I know exactly how much help my mom provided and I’ll return the favor. And it wasn’t insignificant! But I owe her a couple weeks here and there about 5 times. And not for any emergencies.

My parents were not really able to travel when we had young kids. Once I was struck by the flu with 14 month old twins and DH out of the country for work. He tried to get his younger and much more able bodied mom with total control over her schedule to come but she refused to do it because she was "there for the fun stuff, not this drudgery." I have now helped her out a few times with "this drudgery" over the last few years between her health issues as well as FiL's. I can't help but think about her refusing to come, but push on as my now deceased parents would expect me to do this for someone in need. I also want to model that behavior for my now much older kids.

I would talk to her about it. If you aren't able to let it go then you owe it to yourself to clear the air. It's likely not going to change anything but you won't feel like you stuffed it down f9r the rest of your/her life.

Nah. I’m one of those folks who can remember that kind of moment/encounter yet also keep on. It would take way too much time/energy and we’ve got enough on our plates.

[Anonymous]

Ugh, OP I feel your loss. I had kids at 38 and 40 so my parents (and spouses parents) were already older, but still in good shape in their early 70s. My dad and stepmom (she is younger) were retired but chose instead to spend all their time traveling, or buying houses, or whatever. We were invited to travel to see them once a year (we would fly with baby and toddler, bring our crap to a hotel, etc) but that's it. Maybe if they has a stopover near us they would stay, but often not. It never occurred to them to spend even a single night with the kids, or invite us on any of their trips (even cruises to alaska etc), or just come to visit us and hang with the kids and us. Now my dad is dying and my kids barely know him. Then send cards for birthdays but there's no real relationship to speak of, and I feel grief for my kids. I have tried, but my stepmother manages all my father's relationships and she does not want us to intrude on their life.

My mom loves to be around the kids, but she lived across the country. Recently I moved my mom to assisted living closer to us but with alzheimers she is really limited in how much she can engage. Of all of the grandparents she was the closest but not super close. My spouse's parents were 1) mentally ill and recluse and 2) wheelchair bound now lives near us so we do see her, but she pretty much lives in the past.

Its also history repeating itself. I had no close relationship with grandparents when I was growing up. 2 were already dead, one died when I was 4 and the other died when I was 12 but he also lived across the country. I feel terrible that I may also be old when my kids have kids and wont be able to be as active as I'd like. Mostly I dont want to be a burden to them.

[Anonymous]

My mom and stepdad did this when my kids were toddlers. I felt much like you in that I was sad my kids wouldn’t know their grandmother very well.
They moved back to within a couple hours’ drive five years later because they were very lonely and missed their kids and grandkids. They still regret those five years they missed out on our kids’ lives (they have said this to us more than once). They are still a two hour drive and our kids are teens now but at least we see them every few months.
Just wanted to say you never know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my parents are moving cross country, away from their kids and young grandkids, who currently all reside within a 50 mile radius. ostensibly to retire to a lower COL place and ‘enjoy life.’ they live an expensive lifestyle and could have just downsized here. my own relationship with them has been strained over the years, but I do feel sad for the grandkids. it feels a bit like mourning their deaths as I don’t expect we’ll see each other much if at all. hoping to hear from others who have gone through something similar.

My Dad did this and my Mom went along with it, then got pissed off that we didn’t come visit every year or more to the tune of 5K a trip. Lost their relationship with the kids. My father had a stroke, refused to move back, and died with just my sister there, leaving my mother in a hellish situation I am now about done fixing. I wish I had good things to say - I don’t

[Anonymous]

As usual, life is not fair. DH and I have two kids but neither will be having children. We would have been awesome grandparents, taking the kids as often as their parents wanted. Perhaps we can dote on our niece's children when they come along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems there's a rise of grandparents who really don't want to take care of little kids, even just for a weekend. At least this is what I'm seeing a lot in my various circles. They're more tired and less tolerant than what I remember grandparents being like when I was a kid.

Do you think they want to more fully check out, or at least give themselves a simpler reason to not be involved?

Grandparents were younger when we were growing up

This. I and my siblings and cousins were the only kids I knew with an “old” grandmother when we were growing up. And she was only 65. Now parents are in their mid 40s when they have toddlers and grandparents are mid-70s. They aren’t just tired, they have health issues, and they are afraid of accidentally hurting the kid or themselves during childcare.

[Anonymous]

My parents wanted to live the good life and felt that didn't include all this boring family stuff with grandkids. They only really cared when their friends started talking grandkids and they wanted to keep up with the Jones'. They were all about their freedom and travel which was totally fine. I have learned to accept people as they are. The thing is as they aged it all changed and there were all these guilt trips and expectations. So don't be surprised if they don't embrace the extended family stuff until they need it to be all about them and their needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As usual, life is not fair. DH and I have two kids but neither will be having children. We would have been awesome grandparents, taking the kids as often as their parents wanted. Perhaps we can dote on our niece's children when they come along.

My aunt and uncle are “bonus grandparents” to my kids and honestly way closer to my kids than the actual grandparents. I had great aunts and uncles I was super close with growing up. I hope you get to have those fantastic relationships. We travel all the time with my aunt and uncle, they stay with kids while we travel as a couple, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems there's a rise of grandparents who really don't want to take care of little kids, even just for a weekend. At least this is what I'm seeing a lot in my various circles. They're more tired and less tolerant than what I remember grandparents being like when I was a kid.

Do you think they want to more fully check out, or at least give themselves a simpler reason to not be involved?

It’s not their role to take care of little kids. That’s the role of parents.

And of course this generation of grandparents are more tired. Retirement ages have pushed back significantly. Gone are the days of retirement pay starting between 50-55. And when their kids don’t start having kids until they are late 30s, grandparents are much older too.

I agree it's not their responsibility, but it is something parents want - for the break & help, but also for their kids to have memories. So there's resentment if the grandparents are lackluster about fulfilling what was a typical grandparent's role 30 years ago.

Grandparents also seem less embracing of common parenting practices and methods these days which also doesn't help.

This feels like a really outdated perspective. Most people I know don't live near their parents, and their parents are older. I know relatively few families where grandparents have been involved in caregiving on a regular basis.

Same. I also do not want any expectations put on me for childcare. My parents had me late, my DH is older than me, we had kids when we were older, so by the time my kids have kids I’m pretty certain I will be “done” with helping with kids. Just being honest — I recognize it isn’t ideal. It’s just reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I were a grandparent of the kids of a DCUM mom I’d never want to help any of you either. You’re all so nasty when it comes to your parents. You don’t deserve their help.

Same. So much complaining about their "toxic" parents; this forum is dominated by whining adult children.

That said, we are happy to be able to help with some child care and desire to build relations with our grandchildren. What has been tough for us (& I don't think has been mentioned yet):the kids are so often sick that we are constantly exposed to all sorts of viruses and when you are a senior, it's very hard to avoid/recover from. So please be mindful that the grandparents immune systems are often weaker than those of the parents.