Charging a parent for care when one sibling does nothing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of you are kidding yourselves if you think you can “just pay someone” to tend to an elderly family member’s every errand and need. First of all, who is managing and tasking all this help? That in itself takes work. Secondly, a bunch of paid errand runners are not providing the comfort and love of a family member being near. I mean wow, how removed are you from your families to think you can just outsource the care of your sick mother and say “send me the bill?”

OP you are doing something compassionate and right and you should not let these people make you think otherwise.

You can hire a case manager who has a bunch of subcontractors. Sometimes strangers are better . They turn on the charm and the parent behaves better for them or not.

My parents contracted out a ton for us growing up. Yes we were helpless children, but they prioritized staying sane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to do that much if she is in assisted living. Cut back.

Have you had a loved one with dementia in assisted living? The staff are over worked and underpaid. My grandmother was losing weight because they were not patient enough to feed her. My aunt went nearly every day at lunch and my father went at dinner time to spoon feed her like a baby the last 6 months of her life.

I had a MIL who I took care of in my home for a year and then a nursing home for several. If she needs that much help she should be in a nursing home and they are understaffed and underpaid but eventually it will get done. Assisted living does not provide those services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of you are kidding yourselves if you think you can “just pay someone” to tend to an elderly family member’s every errand and need. First of all, who is managing and tasking all this help? That in itself takes work. Secondly, a bunch of paid errand runners are not providing the comfort and love of a family member being near. I mean wow, how removed are you from your families to think you can just outsource the care of your sick mother and say “send me the bill?”

OP you are doing something compassionate and right and you should not let these people make you think otherwise.

OP mom needs a nursing home, not assisted living. You can order everything online/get delivered now.

[Anonymous]

How much is the inheritance? Maybe the horse riding sibling just doesn't care about that money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much would something like laundry cost? What if you raised the question with the siblings, saying that laundry cost $x per month at the facility, but that you're willing to do it for $y (less than x!), then ask which they would prefer. It may be that it's worth it to them to pay someone else so that you don't play the martyr.

Medication management plus laundry is an extra $700 a month. I just feel badly my mother spending $8400 a year on that. I have been doing it for over a year so I have saved her $12,600. The sibling who is supportive is extremely angry at the one who hasn't visited in 4 years and has just said we should pay but when I proposed it to our mother, she became so angry. She was a nurse so the thought of somebody (besides me) giving her medication gets her extremely agitated.

As long as she isn't going to run out of money, shouldn't her money be used for her care, not saved for inheritance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much would something like laundry cost? What if you raised the question with the siblings, saying that laundry cost $x per month at the facility, but that you're willing to do it for $y (less than x!), then ask which they would prefer. It may be that it's worth it to them to pay someone else so that you don't play the martyr.

Medication management plus laundry is an extra $700 a month. I just feel badly my mother spending $8400 a year on that. I have been doing it for over a year so I have saved her $12,600. The sibling who is supportive is extremely angry at the one who hasn't visited in 4 years and has just said we should pay but when I proposed it to our mother, she became so angry. She was a nurse so the thought of somebody (besides me) giving her medication gets her extremely agitated.

I wonder if the out of town sister was subjected to your mother's extreme anger and has decided to preserve her sanity. If your mother was a nurse, she probably gave many many people medication, so why can she only receive hers from one person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to do that much if she is in assisted living. Cut back.

Have you had a loved one with dementia in assisted living? The staff are over worked and underpaid. My grandmother was losing weight because they were not patient enough to feed her. My aunt went nearly every day at lunch and my father went at dinner time to spoon feed her like a baby the last 6 months of her life.

They are overworked. How disgusting of you to LIE and criticize them! Where were YOU?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to do that much if she is in assisted living. Cut back.

Have you had a loved one with dementia in assisted living? The staff are over worked and underpaid. My grandmother was losing weight because they were not patient enough to feed her. My aunt went nearly every day at lunch and my father went at dinner time to spoon feed her like a baby the last 6 months of her life.

They are overworked. How disgusting of you to LIE and criticize them! Where were YOU?

I wonder about the system where we spoon feed people for 6 months when they have end stage dementia and no chance of recovery. It's not what I'd want for myself. My mother was in palliative care with end stage cancer and delirium for four months, and was kept alive for that time by staff who did spoon feed her, but I question whether it was worth it for anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to do that much if she is in assisted living. Cut back.

Have you had a loved one with dementia in assisted living? The staff are over worked and underpaid. My grandmother was losing weight because they were not patient enough to feed her. My aunt went nearly every day at lunch and my father went at dinner time to spoon feed her like a baby the last 6 months of her life.

They are overworked. How disgusting of you to LIE and criticize them! Where were YOU?

I wonder about the system where we spoon feed people for 6 months when they have end stage dementia and no chance of recovery. It's not what I'd want for myself. My mother was in palliative care with end stage cancer and delirium for four months, and was kept alive for that time by staff who did spoon feed her, but I question whether it was worth it for anyone.

So this.

On a different note, OP when you finally hire out or get paid yourself, don't be surprised if mom turns on you and you become the BAD one and your sibling who does nothing becomes the GOOD one. It's a lot easier to cope with this if you hired someone else then it is if you are not accepting money to help a parent who suddenly detests you and complains about you.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes it seems that the caregiving sibling blames the out of town sibling for pressures that
actually stem from the misbehavior of a demanding parent. If the sister were to come to town and try and help out, there might be a different kind of post here about the seagull sister - the one that flies in, squawks loudly, and drops c**p on everyone.

No one wins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to do that much if she is in assisted living. Cut back.

It seems really easy to say that and perhaps that is what my distance sibling thinks but it ends up being time intensive. This week:
Monday deal with pharmacy to renew medication, pick up medication and sort it into weekly pill container, pick up snacks my mom requested then drop them off (total time 2 hours from leaving my house to getting back to my house).
Wed- Visit (90 minutes door to door)
Thursday- leave work an hour early to take my mother to audiologist for hearing aid issue (2 hours leaving work, picking her up, taking her to appointment, waiting, taking her back home).
Today- (mother called crying saying she wasn't feeling well and was nauseous and weak (2 hours going and getting her applesauce, figuring out what medication she could take, visiting, etc).

I am not counting the all the phone calls I received from her or the phone calls I made to her. So at least 7 1/2 hours of my time this week.

It sounds like you love your mom and you are a good daughter. I think a therapist could help you work through some of the issues you have with your siblings and your unwillingness to spend your mom's money. Let assisted living manage her medicine. If she wants special snacks have them shipped via amazon or instacart. If you don't want to visit or take your mom to doctor's appointments hire a caretaker to do these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes it seems that the caregiving sibling blames the out of town sibling for pressures that
actually stem from the misbehavior of a demanding parent. If the sister were to come to town and try and help out, there might be a different kind of post here about the seagull sister - the one that flies in, squawks loudly, and drops c**p on everyone.

No one wins.

In truth, OP is making choices about how much hands-on caregiving she is willing to do, based upon her own value system and relationship with her parent, and OP’s sibling is making their own choices. They both have free will - OP is deciding to do laundry, etc. which is wonderful, but it is a CHOICE and not mandatory. OP could also choose to prioritize her own well being and step away from administering medications daily - if her mom is upset, so be it; her demands are unreasonable. OP’s sibling could argue that OP is martyring herself.

It’s wonderful when caregiving responsibilities are shared equally (and I admit to judging those who do nothing) but ultimately, everyone has the right to make their own decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of you are kidding yourselves if you think you can “just pay someone” to tend to an elderly family member’s every errand and need. First of all, who is managing and tasking all this help? That in itself takes work. Secondly, a bunch of paid errand runners are not providing the comfort and love of a family member being near. I mean wow, how removed are you from your families to think you can just outsource the care of your sick mother and say “send me the bill?”

OP you are doing something compassionate and right and you should not let these people make you think otherwise.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am trying to get over how angry I am at one of my siblings who lives either a 7 hour drive or one hour plane ride away, but literally does nothing but an occasional phone call once a week or once every other week. Even when I told that sibling that our mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in Feb./March and so should come visit and bring the two grandkids to visit before our mother no longer recognizes them, the sibling has no plans to visit and hasn't for four years because of an expensive activity that takes up all their time and money.

My other sibling lives farther and at least is in charge of all the financial stuff, comes to visit with his family, is very sympathetic and appreciative to all I do.

Even though our mother is in an assisted living place I have to leave work to take her to multiple Dr. appointments, I get called by the facility when issues arise, take her shopping, get her mail and organize it because she can no longer pay bills, and visit 4 times a week. It is only because I am on top of it that she doesn't need a higher level of care and doesn't get charged for things such as doing her laundry, medication management, etc. The thought of the selfish sibling getting an equal share of inheritance to me is just ridiculous. I am thinking of creating a spreadsheet and charging my hourly rate I make at work for all that I do. If the sibling who does nothing wants to be the one to charge money, mover her closer to where the sibling lives and do everything I do , I would be ecstatic.

Anyone have this type of arrangement?

OP, I understand how you got to where you are, and why you are so angry and frustrated. But you need to realize that you have agency just like your siblings, and if you lived far away or weren't stepping up, others would to some degree and they would muddle through (though your mother's care would certainly be negatively impacted). You need to own your choices a bit - the bolded, for example, is, objectively, completely optional.

You need to focus on your life and your choices and what is manageable and what is not for you, and then express that to your siblings. You can't just start charging them.

What you can do, is go to them and say something like:

"We need to check in on mom's care. I am getting overwhelmed, and the pace I've been keeping up is no longer sustainable for me. Something has to give - I'm missing work almost weekly because of doctors appointments and unexpected calls from mom's facility, and I'm there two days a week* to handling bills, shopping, and home care. I'm open to suggestions on how to handle this. From my perspective, it seems like we have a few options. We could spend more money to increase her level of support and care at the facility, we could pay to outsource some of these tasks to other people (like using a service for all her shopping), you guys could pitch in more, either remotely as much as possible or by visiting more, or I could potentially be open to continuing to handle a big chunk of this (though not all!) with some additional financial support from mom's estate (which would allow me to throw some money at my own personal issues/life and focus more attention on mom). Or we could do some combination of those things. But as it stands now, I can't keep this up. It's too much."

Who knows, maybe they'll jump at the chance to pay you and thus lose some guilt.

*You'll note that I said two visits a week when you said four. When talking to your siblings, you need to parse out the things that you are doing out of love and living your values that are essentially social, and the things you're doing that are impacting her care. If you could handle everything that needs to be handled and her care would not really be impacted if you only went two days a week, but you don't like her being lonely at this stage of life, so you visit more, that is your decision and is NOT something that it's fair to bring up with your siblings.

I would recommend, especially since your emotions are so high right now, putting this in an email. You don't want to throw something out in anger that you regret, you don't want your siblings to do that either, and this gives you a chance to really think about what you're saying and for your siblings to respond in kind.

Then, you need to be open and flexible in this conversation. If both your siblings, for example, agree that X is not necessary, it is optional, and not worth doing, and objectively, they're correct, but it's something you value and is important to you on a personal level, like number of visits or quality of care or something mom likes but isn't necessary (like going shopping rather than getting delivery), then that gets removed from the equation, and once you have all hit a balance on handling mom's necessary care, then you can always take on optional stuff at your own discretion.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It sounds exceptionally difficult. I hope you can find a better balance during this difficult time.

[Anonymous]

I really don't think you should be spending as much time doing essentially menial labor for your mom. Apart from the bitterness and resentment towards your sister, which I agree is a separate issue, how much bitterness and resentment are you building up towards your mom? It is only going to get harder from here, not easier.

My mom just moved to a continuing care community in the DMV. I'm the local daughter -- my siblings are in NYC. Realistically, between kids and jobs, they can't visit more than once every 6-8 weeks, because that is a three-day trip to get stuff done. They both took a lot of time off, as did I, to get my mom through a surgery + rehab, plus all the work it took over the last year to get her cleaned out and moved down here and her house sold.

They do a lot from long distance and can do a lot of stuff that doesn't require them to be present -- my sibling who's best at money, for example, is dealing with consolidating my mom's accounts and figuring out financials (that should have been figured out a long time ago, but my mom is both terrible with money and ashamed at how terrible she is, so she concealed the whole picture and didn't let us know about it for decades. Lots to unravel there).

My other sibling is now in charge of stuff like Medicare and Tricare for Life benefits -- again, things she can do long distance.

We've all pulled together on all the jobs and we've used Google Drive and Notes extensively to be able to share information. But I realized that, given how many doctors' appointments my mom has with her health issues, I can't keep taking a day off work every time she needs to go to an appointment. It's not only the time but it's all the mental load of being the one in charge with communicating, and it's not great for my relationship with my mom because it's inevitably infantilizing to her.

So we hired an independent nurse from Independent You to go with my mom to doctors' appointments, etc. Yes, it's money, but it's money that's well spent on taking the time and mental load off me and on improving my relationship.

I also put a lot of work into getting my mom on 90-day mail order prescriptions on auto-renew wherever possible and cost-effective, and getting 90-day delivery prescriptions from her local independent pharmacy where that's more cost-effective. She's only got one script now that's monthly. It was a lot of work up front but so much less work than someone having to track all her scripts and refills on a monthly basis.

She's still mentally healthy enough that she can fill her own pillcases -- we ordered cases that have separate boxes for morning, lunch, evening each day of the week, and we ordered four of them so we can fill them assembly-line. In addition to her printed-out copy of the spreadsheet with each medication, dosage, times per day, pharmacy, refills, and last refilled date, she also has a page where I taped one pill of each medication and OTC med/vitamin she takes and labeled those so she has the visual to go by as well. If it's too much, then that's something the independent nurse can help her with as well. But just rationalizing scripts has been a huge load off everyone's mind and well worth the investment of time.