Spouses of big law partners/lawyers

[Anonymous]

Obviously I am a moron but I am the OP of this post:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1128137.page

I think it would likely help to talk to a financial advisor and figure things out. I do think you should be able to budget to get more help. I’m using YNAB so far and liking it. But I think a financial advisor could help you. Maybe you don’t pay that much for student loans if you need to pay for childcare now - idk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been married 30 yrs. In that time we’ve had 4 kids, he’s gone from associate to partner, worked govt and also big law. I have worked full time 23 yrs. When I worked full time, I always had full time help. I had a house cleaner and sitter. Sometimes the sitter dropped kids off at after-school activities and I picked up. Sometimes I would take one to piano or violin lessons, leaving sitter with the other kids. I had 4 weeks vacation. She also got 4 weeks. I treated her like a salaried employee but she was more like family, so I never had issues there.

Of course I resented the hours at times, like when I was home with a newborn and he was traveling. I even had to be induced to fit his travel schedule.

But, I also quit my job when I felt like a pizza that had been sliced into too many pieces. I didn’t resent my spouse; I resented my job. So I quit to have more time to balance it all.

As you describe it, you are carrying 100% of the load for the kids. Do you have a sitter? How do you handle summers and sick kids? My sitter was invaluable to us. We couldn’t have done it without her expertise and dedication.

I would recommend trying to reframe or redirect your resentment. You can afford help. If there’s a reason you can’t let go of everything, consider asking why. Otherwise, get help so you and your spouse can support one another.

Op here - kids are in elementary school and daycare. I handle sick days by staying home with them. Kids go to summer camp.

DH makes good money but not insane money even for a partner. I think last year he made $550k with bonus. So we can’t realistically pay a full time housekeeper or something like that.

Maybe we could have a nanny but we felt that daycare actually was a better fit for our extroverted kids who needed to be around other kids during the day. But I would be open to a part time helper to do laundry or cooking or dropping kids off at sports. How do you find someone who only wants to work a few hours a day?

That doesn't even include your salary. Ummm, yes you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here with some salient additional information:

1) I make around $100,000 per year but I really work for my health insurance and retirement, which we get through my job.
2) our house isn’t big enough for an au pair and I don’t really feel like having a late teen/early 20 year old to also take care of (per experiences from friends who have had au pairs)
3) we do have bi-weekly cleaners and landscapers who cut the yard and do clean ups/weeding/etc
4) we are still paying off student loans (+$250,000 between DH and myself undergrad plus grad for him and grad for me) but should be done in 3 years thank god. So between student loans and daycare costs the past 8 years we are severely behind on retirement and savings

I think what would really help is someone in the afternoons to help kids with homework/shuttle them around when needed/make dinner/help with laundry. So someone 3-4 hours a day. Is that possible? How much would that cost?

You guys have a HHI of $650k year. You most definitely can afford help. WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your big problem is your debt. That's what is making your income feel "not enough."

I think the first thing you need to do is sit down with a financial advisor, or on your own if you think you can do it, and come up with a plan to pay off your student loans rapidly. If you have some loans locked in at very low rates, maybe keep those on a payment plan, but everything else, you should be looking to just pay off. I'd be looking to pay those off either entirely or at least anything at more than a 3% interest rate, within 24 months. If you can get rid of that debt, or at least get it down to maybe 50-60k locked in at low interest rates, it's going to totally change how you view your budget. Plus, that kind of debt when you have kids is a massive source of stress. Since the stress levels of your DH's job are an issue, you need to be looking for ways to eliminate other sources of stress.

I think your goal should be to get to the point where you can either quit your job OR afford a full time housekeeper/nanny who can help you share the load since your DH can't. Your income is not low in an absolute sense, but your DH has a job that assumes a SAHP or full time help, and that will never change. That's just how it is for law firm partners. So you either need to become a SAHM or hire full time help. Period.

If you pay down the loan debt, you might reach a point where you can more comfortably leave your job. I know people at that income level who pay for bare bones "catastrophic" health insurance and then pay for most actual health care out of pocket, and it makes more sense for them financially. There's also no reason, given your DH's income, why you have to go through your job for you retirement fund. Is it a government pension? I honestly am not sure it's worth it in your case. If it's a 401k with an employer match, it's definitely not worth it in our case. At your income, you have better mechanisms for savings and investment -- real estate, a bunch of money in low-fee index funds like Vanguard, etc. Again, a financial planner could help you with this. Or just buy a few financial planning books and figure it out. It's not rocket science, especially when you have your level of cash flow.

You guys are managing your finances like a couple in their late 20s or early 30s making under 200k. It's the debt that is doing it. Frankly, you should have done more to pay that down before having kids and before your DH made partner, but it's not too late. You need to grow up though. You have kids and your DH has a serious job and no one is going to feel sorry for you if you can't figure it out because you are very high income and put yourselves in this position.

OP here - yes agree our debt is the biggest factor in our budget.

We pay upward of $3000 per month on student loans. We should be done paying the majority of ours in the next 2-3 years I believe. The next highest payments are mortgage ($4,000) and daycare costs, which finally have gone done to one daycare but previously we were paying 3 daycare costs. Now we pay 1 daycare and then summer camps so if you average it around $1900 per month over 12 months.

Daycare and your debt load are more than covered by your salary alone. Your mortgage is modest for your income level. This idea that you can't afford a full time nanny is all in your head. Not in your budget. You said your kid in daycare is an extrovert. Nanny plus part-time preschool is your answer here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your big problem is your debt. That's what is making your income feel "not enough."

I think the first thing you need to do is sit down with a financial advisor, or on your own if you think you can do it, and come up with a plan to pay off your student loans rapidly. If you have some loans locked in at very low rates, maybe keep those on a payment plan, but everything else, you should be looking to just pay off. I'd be looking to pay those off either entirely or at least anything at more than a 3% interest rate, within 24 months. If you can get rid of that debt, or at least get it down to maybe 50-60k locked in at low interest rates, it's going to totally change how you view your budget. Plus, that kind of debt when you have kids is a massive source of stress. Since the stress levels of your DH's job are an issue, you need to be looking for ways to eliminate other sources of stress.

I think your goal should be to get to the point where you can either quit your job OR afford a full time housekeeper/nanny who can help you share the load since your DH can't. Your income is not low in an absolute sense, but your DH has a job that assumes a SAHP or full time help, and that will never change. That's just how it is for law firm partners. So you either need to become a SAHM or hire full time help. Period.

If you pay down the loan debt, you might reach a point where you can more comfortably leave your job. I know people at that income level who pay for bare bones "catastrophic" health insurance and then pay for most actual health care out of pocket, and it makes more sense for them financially. There's also no reason, given your DH's income, why you have to go through your job for you retirement fund. Is it a government pension? I honestly am not sure it's worth it in your case. If it's a 401k with an employer match, it's definitely not worth it in our case. At your income, you have better mechanisms for savings and investment -- real estate, a bunch of money in low-fee index funds like Vanguard, etc. Again, a financial planner could help you with this. Or just buy a few financial planning books and figure it out. It's not rocket science, especially when you have your level of cash flow.

You guys are managing your finances like a couple in their late 20s or early 30s making under 200k. It's the debt that is doing it. Frankly, you should have done more to pay that down before having kids and before your DH made partner, but it's not too late. You need to grow up though. You have kids and your DH has a serious job and no one is going to feel sorry for you if you can't figure it out because you are very high income and put yourselves in this position.

OP here - yes agree our debt is the biggest factor in our budget.

We pay upward of $3000 per month on student loans. We should be done paying the majority of ours in the next 2-3 years I believe. The next highest payments are mortgage ($4,000) and daycare costs, which finally have gone done to one daycare but previously we were paying 3 daycare costs. Now we pay 1 daycare and then summer camps so if you average it around $1900 per month over 12 months.

You should be done in 2-3 years, you believe? Lady, you are complaining about stress and resentment and you don't know for sure when your $3000/mo student loan payments end? I am not joking about this -- go look. Right now. You have a 36k annual expense and you are not even sure how long you will have it for.

Yes, daycare is expensive. Something that should have been abundantly clear to you after your FIRST kid. You have 3? Why didn't you switch to a nanny after #2 anyway? By 3 kids, the nanny is definitely more economical, and then you'd already have a relationship with someone you could potentially keep on as a housekeeper/sitter. Right now you are spending 5k a month on student loans + daycare + camp -- once your loans are done, you could easily be spending less than that and have a full time household employee.

Depending on your DH's bonus this year, you could get that full time household employee by next year anyway. If he's a first year partner at 550k, my guess is you are going to see significant income bumps in coming years. You will have no problem affording household help.

Sorry you are feeling resentment today. But you married a corporate lawyer and between the two of you, you had a quarter of a million dollars in student loans. You then proceeded to have THREE children together, before paying off those loans, and bought a home worth at least 700k (I'm betting more but being conservative based on your mortgage payment and how long I'm guessing you've owned it). Within the next 2-3 years, you will likely have an extra 100k or more room in your budget, as you finish paying off loans and your DH's salary increases. And you would rather sit around lamenting how you can't afford a housekeeper than take a few minutes to go find out when you will be done paying off those loans and do a tiny bit of math. Oh yeah, and while you get a full time salary, some weeks you only work 20 hours a week.

Excuse me, I need to go put away the world's tiniest violin because I got it out thinking it was appropriate for this situation, but now that I have more facts, realize it is too big for the job.

Girl. Please.

[Anonymous]

I think you have lots of options but given that your primary question was about feeling resentful of your DH, I think you should explore your feelings through therapy. When you carry resentment it can be hard to find a solution, and I can see that in your replies to the suggestions made here. Maybe your resentful because your career is taking a hit? Or because your lonely? Or because of something from your childhood? Only after you’ve figured it out can you figure out if you need your DH to choose a different path, or need more hired help, or need more time with DH on your own, etc.

But I’d address the feeling of resentment asap before it builds and gets out of control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he’s a partner, you can afford to either stop working or hire help. It’s important that you talk this through with him and that you both find an arrangement that works. Someone working 40 hours per week shouldn’t be handling all of the household/child responsibilities.

I agree that someone whose DH gets paid half a million a year doesn't need to be cleaning the house and doing all the activity driving. But otherwise, working 40 hours a week does not exempt the vast, vast majority of American parents from also handling these roles.

OP works 40 hours while also handling nearly all household/child responsibilities to support her biglaw spouse. That arrangement is neither fair nor sustainable. She needs support and if their combined income isn’t enough to pay for it, they’re making poor life choices.

In families where both spouses have more typical 40-50 hour/week jobs, usually the husband takes on more responsibilities. The wife can’t do it all!

Or, the wife can do it all, but at a huge and disproportionate cost to her quality of life. Just because somebody can do something doesn’t mean that they should. (This is for all you out there who want to say that because you do it, OP should have to do it too).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your big problem is your debt. That's what is making your income feel "not enough."

I think the first thing you need to do is sit down with a financial advisor, or on your own if you think you can do it, and come up with a plan to pay off your student loans rapidly. If you have some loans locked in at very low rates, maybe keep those on a payment plan, but everything else, you should be looking to just pay off. I'd be looking to pay those off either entirely or at least anything at more than a 3% interest rate, within 24 months. If you can get rid of that debt, or at least get it down to maybe 50-60k locked in at low interest rates, it's going to totally change how you view your budget. Plus, that kind of debt when you have kids is a massive source of stress. Since the stress levels of your DH's job are an issue, you need to be looking for ways to eliminate other sources of stress.

I think your goal should be to get to the point where you can either quit your job OR afford a full time housekeeper/nanny who can help you share the load since your DH can't. Your income is not low in an absolute sense, but your DH has a job that assumes a SAHP or full time help, and that will never change. That's just how it is for law firm partners. So you either need to become a SAHM or hire full time help. Period.

If you pay down the loan debt, you might reach a point where you can more comfortably leave your job. I know people at that income level who pay for bare bones "catastrophic" health insurance and then pay for most actual health care out of pocket, and it makes more sense for them financially. There's also no reason, given your DH's income, why you have to go through your job for you retirement fund. Is it a government pension? I honestly am not sure it's worth it in your case. If it's a 401k with an employer match, it's definitely not worth it in our case. At your income, you have better mechanisms for savings and investment -- real estate, a bunch of money in low-fee index funds like Vanguard, etc. Again, a financial planner could help you with this. Or just buy a few financial planning books and figure it out. It's not rocket science, especially when you have your level of cash flow.

You guys are managing your finances like a couple in their late 20s or early 30s making under 200k. It's the debt that is doing it. Frankly, you should have done more to pay that down before having kids and before your DH made partner, but it's not too late. You need to grow up though. You have kids and your DH has a serious job and no one is going to feel sorry for you if you can't figure it out because you are very high income and put yourselves in this position.

OP here - yes agree our debt is the biggest factor in our budget.

We pay upward of $3000 per month on student loans. We should be done paying the majority of ours in the next 2-3 years I believe. The next highest payments are mortgage ($4,000) and daycare costs, which finally have gone done to one daycare but previously we were paying 3 daycare costs. Now we pay 1 daycare and then summer camps so if you average it around $1900 per month over 12 months.

You should be done in 2-3 years, you believe? Lady, you are complaining about stress and resentment and you don't know for sure when your $3000/mo student loan payments end? I am not joking about this -- go look. Right now. You have a 36k annual expense and you are not even sure how long you will have it for.

Yes, daycare is expensive. Something that should have been abundantly clear to you after your FIRST kid. You have 3? Why didn't you switch to a nanny after #2 anyway? By 3 kids, the nanny is definitely more economical, and then you'd already have a relationship with someone you could potentially keep on as a housekeeper/sitter. Right now you are spending 5k a month on student loans + daycare + camp -- once your loans are done, you could easily be spending less than that and have a full time household employee.

Depending on your DH's bonus this year, you could get that full time household employee by next year anyway. If he's a first year partner at 550k, my guess is you are going to see significant income bumps in coming years. You will have no problem affording household help.

Sorry you are feeling resentment today. But you married a corporate lawyer and between the two of you, you had a quarter of a million dollars in student loans. You then proceeded to have THREE children together, before paying off those loans, and bought a home worth at least 700k (I'm betting more but being conservative based on your mortgage payment and how long I'm guessing you've owned it). Within the next 2-3 years, you will likely have an extra 100k or more room in your budget, as you finish paying off loans and your DH's salary increases. And you would rather sit around lamenting how you can't afford a housekeeper than take a few minutes to go find out when you will be done paying off those loans and do a tiny bit of math. Oh yeah, and while you get a full time salary, some weeks you only work 20 hours a week.

Excuse me, I need to go put away the world's tiniest violin because I got it out thinking it was appropriate for this situation, but now that I have more facts, realize it is too big for the job.

Girl. Please.

I love you.

[Anonymous]

What is the total remaining student loan debt balance ?

If you are only paying $3,000 a month, then your total payments over the next 3 years will be just $108,000.

OP: One option would be for a full-time nanny. Would cost $70,000 per year which equals your take-home pay. You would be working for your family's health insurance and for your retirement.

Neither the need for a nanny nor for student loan payments will last forever. Even though they will be replaced by private school and college bills, your husband's earnings should be much higher then.

You are overwhelmed because of your choice to have 3 children--which I applaud. If you have 3 healthy children, then you have already won; you just need to learn how to appreciate & enjoy your victory.

Since it is your husband's first year as a partner in biglaw, you are not yet accustomed to your current income. Your after-tax take home pay should be about $36,000 a month on earnings totaling $650,000 per year. All of your needs should be doable within your current monthly budget.

OP: Whether you know it or not you are rich and successful. You have 3 healthy children and the earning capacity and resources to give them the best childhood and education.

[Anonymous]

You have 3 little kids

Your husband works more than full time and is not focused on the kids or house

You also work full time and are 50% focused on work, 25% focused on kids, and 25% focused on house.

It doesn't work. You need a designated adult to handle kids and house logistics whether that's you leaving your job or hiring someone. Not to mention other things in life- alone time, hobbies working out, socialization. It is not feasible for you to exist like this.

[Anonymous]

OP has undergrad AND grad school debt and is barely making 100k. Her DH's job is paying off her loans for her. Plus they decided to have three kids, a decision she was likely pretty involved in. Without a Big Law salary, OP would be absolutely screwed, but fortunately her DH makes a half million a year with potential to be a much higher earner than that (assuming she actually supports him in pursuing that, it will take a lot of hours and dedication), so they'll be able to pay off their loans and afford their kids.

But she RESENTS his job.

Just. I can't. I absolutely cannot.

I wonder if her DH resents the fact that she racked up 100k+ in loans, likely pushed for that third kid, but insist on staying in a job making barely more than you would pay a full time nanny, ostensibly for healthcare and retirement (what retirement? you don't make enough to be putting much away on your salary, even with your DH paying for your entire student loan payment). And then you complain he's not helping enough.

99% of the time on these threads, I'm on the wife's side because so many men slack at home and do not pull their weight. But in this case, the DH's job is the only thing keeping this leaky boat afloat, and it's the thing OP is complaining about. Suck. it. up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been married 30 yrs. In that time we’ve had 4 kids, he’s gone from associate to partner, worked govt and also big law. I have worked full time 23 yrs. When I worked full time, I always had full time help. I had a house cleaner and sitter. Sometimes the sitter dropped kids off at after-school activities and I picked up. Sometimes I would take one to piano or violin lessons, leaving sitter with the other kids. I had 4 weeks vacation. She also got 4 weeks. I treated her like a salaried employee but she was more like family, so I never had issues there.

Of course I resented the hours at times, like when I was home with a newborn and he was traveling. I even had to be induced to fit his travel schedule.

But, I also quit my job when I felt like a pizza that had been sliced into too many pieces. I didn’t resent my spouse; I resented my job. So I quit to have more time to balance it all.

As you describe it, you are carrying 100% of the load for the kids. Do you have a sitter? How do you handle summers and sick kids? My sitter was invaluable to us. We couldn’t have done it without her expertise and dedication.

I would recommend trying to reframe or redirect your resentment. You can afford help. If there’s a reason you can’t let go of everything, consider asking why. Otherwise, get help so you and your spouse can support one another.

Op here - kids are in elementary school and daycare. I handle sick days by staying home with them. Kids go to summer camp.

DH makes good money but not insane money even for a partner. I think last year he made $550k with bonus. So we can’t realistically pay a full time housekeeper or something like that.

Maybe we could have a nanny but we felt that daycare actually was a better fit for our extroverted kids who needed to be around other kids during the day. But I would be open to a part time helper to do laundry or cooking or dropping kids off at sports. How do you find someone who only wants to work a few hours a day?

How much do you make, OP? We make a little more than your husband makes combined and we were able to afford a full-time nanny for the first eight years of our twins' lives plus a cleaner that came once a week. Our house is worth almost $2 million (we paid about $1.5 for it), we travel, etc. I'm struggling to figure out how you can't find a way to hire more help on what has to be at least $600K a year?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP has undergrad AND grad school debt and is barely making 100k. Her DH's job is paying off her loans for her. Plus they decided to have three kids, a decision she was likely pretty involved in. Without a Big Law salary, OP would be absolutely screwed, but fortunately her DH makes a half million a year with potential to be a much higher earner than that (assuming she actually supports him in pursuing that, it will take a lot of hours and dedication), so they'll be able to pay off their loans and afford their kids.

But she RESENTS his job.

Just. I can't. I absolutely cannot.

I wonder if her DH resents the fact that she racked up 100k+ in loans, likely pushed for that third kid, but insist on staying in a job making barely more than you would pay a full time nanny, ostensibly for healthcare and retirement (what retirement? you don't make enough to be putting much away on your salary, even with your DH paying for your entire student loan payment). And then you complain he's not helping enough.

99% of the time on these threads, I'm on the wife's side because so many men slack at home and do not pull their weight. But in this case, the DH's job is the only thing keeping this leaky boat afloat, and it's the thing OP is complaining about. Suck. it. up.

Basically, this. I doubt OP will be too very happy with her husband downshifting to an in-house gig or fed job where he will have the bandwidth to help out but 1/3 the income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP has undergrad AND grad school debt and is barely making 100k. Her DH's job is paying off her loans for her. Plus they decided to have three kids, a decision she was likely pretty involved in. Without a Big Law salary, OP would be absolutely screwed, but fortunately her DH makes a half million a year with potential to be a much higher earner than that (assuming she actually supports him in pursuing that, it will take a lot of hours and dedication), so they'll be able to pay off their loans and afford their kids.

But she RESENTS his job.

Just. I can't. I absolutely cannot.

I wonder if her DH resents the fact that she racked up 100k+ in loans, likely pushed for that third kid, but insist on staying in a job making barely more than you would pay a full time nanny, ostensibly for healthcare and retirement (what retirement? you don't make enough to be putting much away on your salary, even with your DH paying for your entire student loan payment). And then you complain he's not helping enough.

99% of the time on these threads, I'm on the wife's side because so many men slack at home and do not pull their weight. But in this case, the DH's job is the only thing keeping this leaky boat afloat, and it's the thing OP is complaining about. Suck. it. up.

Op here - my student loan debt is $60,000. My husbands is $190,000 between undergrad and grad school.

Just clarifying. He has his high paying job to pay his loans.

[Anonymous]

Do you reset how much money he makes? How much stress and hard work he has to do? Do you resent the fact that you never have to worry about ordinary day-to-day bills or purchases? Do you resent the fact that you can take nice vacations?