Spouses of big law partners/lawyers

[Anonymous]

Try contacting a professional car service and see if you can set up an arrangement for driving services for a minor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here with some salient additional information:

1) I make around $100,000 per year but I really work for my health insurance and retirement, which we get through my job.
2) our house isn’t big enough for an au pair and I don’t really feel like having a late teen/early 20 year old to also take care of (per experiences from friends who have had au pairs)
3) we do have bi-weekly cleaners and landscapers who cut the yard and do clean ups/weeding/etc
4) we are still paying off student loans (+$250,000 between DH and myself undergrad plus grad for him and grad for me) but should be done in 3 years thank god. So between student loans and daycare costs the past 8 years we are severely behind on retirement and savings

I think what would really help is someone in the afternoons to help kids with homework/shuttle them around when needed/make dinner/help with laundry. So someone 3-4 hours a day. Is that possible? How much would that cost?

Post your budget. If you can't figure out this sh** with $650,000 HHI, how do you think the rest of us do it? Your salary should take care of daycare costs and loan payments. Where is your DH's salary going?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here with some salient additional information:

1) I make around $100,000 per year but I really work for my health insurance and retirement, which we get through my job.
2) our house isn’t big enough for an au pair and I don’t really feel like having a late teen/early 20 year old to also take care of (per experiences from friends who have had au pairs)
3) we do have bi-weekly cleaners and landscapers who cut the yard and do clean ups/weeding/etc
4) we are still paying off student loans (+$250,000 between DH and myself undergrad plus grad for him and grad for me) but should be done in 3 years thank god. So between student loans and daycare costs the past 8 years we are severely behind on retirement and savings

I think what would really help is someone in the afternoons to help kids with homework/shuttle them around when needed/make dinner/help with laundry. So someone 3-4 hours a day. Is that possible? How much would that cost?

Post your budget. If you can't figure out this sh** with $650,000 HHI, how do you think the rest of us do it? Your salary should take care of daycare costs and loan payments. Where is your DH's salary going?

Op - I only started making $100,000 last year. Prior to that I was making $65,000. When we started having kids DH was making $250,000 and I was making $60,000. But we had more debt and daycare costs then. Salaries went up over time and we have tried to pay down student loan debt.

But of course over time we have had more kids, bought a house, bought cars to drive said kids, etc.

[Anonymous]

Former BigLaw mom who left in part because I was also the primary parent with a husband who made half my salary, but had a less flexible scheduled). I didn’t want a nanny/au pair, partly because I already didn’t see my kid that much and wanted that time together and partly because I didn’t want to manage a household employee.

Anyway - I don’t think you’re going to change your husband. It sucks, but it is what it is. And given your debt, he probably can’t drop down to a lower paying, less time consuming job. You might be able to quit, but health insurance for equity partners is $$$.

I’d say your best option is to cut kid activities. Something has to give, and that’s going to be it. I when I was BigLaw and my husband was working 50-55 hrs a week, we didn’t have any week day evening activities. It was easy because kid was in daycare, but still.

Now we have activities 3-4 nights a week and 2-3 times a weekend, I think it’s busy, but it’s doable because our jobs changed and we’re both available after 5pm now.


To give you some perspective, I’ve gone they
periods of resenting my husband, my co-workers who had wives at home who handled 90% of house stuff, and my friends who complained about doing the majority of household management while their husbands made 70-80% of the household income.

My resentment finally got a lot better when I found the balance I wanted.

[Anonymous]

OP do your work benefits require 40 hrs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP do your work benefits require 40 hrs?

Op - I am salaries and some weeks I work 20 hours and some weeks I work 40+ hours. But in general I work 40 hours.

[Anonymous]

Your big problem is your debt. That's what is making your income feel "not enough."

I think the first thing you need to do is sit down with a financial advisor, or on your own if you think you can do it, and come up with a plan to pay off your student loans rapidly. If you have some loans locked in at very low rates, maybe keep those on a payment plan, but everything else, you should be looking to just pay off. I'd be looking to pay those off either entirely or at least anything at more than a 3% interest rate, within 24 months. If you can get rid of that debt, or at least get it down to maybe 50-60k locked in at low interest rates, it's going to totally change how you view your budget. Plus, that kind of debt when you have kids is a massive source of stress. Since the stress levels of your DH's job are an issue, you need to be looking for ways to eliminate other sources of stress.

I think your goal should be to get to the point where you can either quit your job OR afford a full time housekeeper/nanny who can help you share the load since your DH can't. Your income is not low in an absolute sense, but your DH has a job that assumes a SAHP or full time help, and that will never change. That's just how it is for law firm partners. So you either need to become a SAHM or hire full time help. Period.

If you pay down the loan debt, you might reach a point where you can more comfortably leave your job. I know people at that income level who pay for bare bones "catastrophic" health insurance and then pay for most actual health care out of pocket, and it makes more sense for them financially. There's also no reason, given your DH's income, why you have to go through your job for you retirement fund. Is it a government pension? I honestly am not sure it's worth it in your case. If it's a 401k with an employer match, it's definitely not worth it in our case. At your income, you have better mechanisms for savings and investment -- real estate, a bunch of money in low-fee index funds like Vanguard, etc. Again, a financial planner could help you with this. Or just buy a few financial planning books and figure it out. It's not rocket science, especially when you have your level of cash flow.

You guys are managing your finances like a couple in their late 20s or early 30s making under 200k. It's the debt that is doing it. Frankly, you should have done more to pay that down before having kids and before your DH made partner, but it's not too late. You need to grow up though. You have kids and your DH has a serious job and no one is going to feel sorry for you if you can't figure it out because you are very high income and put yourselves in this position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been married 30 yrs. In that time we’ve had 4 kids, he’s gone from associate to partner, worked govt and also big law. I have worked full time 23 yrs. When I worked full time, I always had full time help. I had a house cleaner and sitter. Sometimes the sitter dropped kids off at after-school activities and I picked up. Sometimes I would take one to piano or violin lessons, leaving sitter with the other kids. I had 4 weeks vacation. She also got 4 weeks. I treated her like a salaried employee but she was more like family, so I never had issues there.

Of course I resented the hours at times, like when I was home with a newborn and he was traveling. I even had to be induced to fit his travel schedule.

But, I also quit my job when I felt like a pizza that had been sliced into too many pieces. I didn’t resent my spouse; I resented my job. So I quit to have more time to balance it all.

As you describe it, you are carrying 100% of the load for the kids. Do you have a sitter? How do you handle summers and sick kids? My sitter was invaluable to us. We couldn’t have done it without her expertise and dedication.

I would recommend trying to reframe or redirect your resentment. You can afford help. If there’s a reason you can’t let go of everything, consider asking why. Otherwise, get help so you and your spouse can support one another.

Op here - kids are in elementary school and daycare. I handle sick days by staying home with them. Kids go to summer camp.

DH makes good money but not insane money even for a partner. I think last year he made $550k with bonus. So we can’t realistically pay a full time housekeeper or something like that.

Maybe we could have a nanny but we felt that daycare actually was a better fit for our extroverted kids who needed to be around other kids during the day. But I would be open to a part time helper to do laundry or cooking or dropping kids off at sports. How do you find someone who only wants to work a few hours a day?

Obviously I don’t know your situation, but if he’s a partner working those kinds of hours for $550k including bonus, you should consider looking at a different firm. Talk with a recruiter. That’s on the very low end of partnership (counsels at most top 100 make that) so makes me think this isn’t really big law but a small boutique or an income partner that’s really a counsel but called partner. Either way, no way those kind of hours and inflexibility for that amount of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been married 30 yrs. In that time we’ve had 4 kids, he’s gone from associate to partner, worked govt and also big law. I have worked full time 23 yrs. When I worked full time, I always had full time help. I had a house cleaner and sitter. Sometimes the sitter dropped kids off at after-school activities and I picked up. Sometimes I would take one to piano or violin lessons, leaving sitter with the other kids. I had 4 weeks vacation. She also got 4 weeks. I treated her like a salaried employee but she was more like family, so I never had issues there.

Of course I resented the hours at times, like when I was home with a newborn and he was traveling. I even had to be induced to fit his travel schedule.

But, I also quit my job when I felt like a pizza that had been sliced into too many pieces. I didn’t resent my spouse; I resented my job. So I quit to have more time to balance it all.

As you describe it, you are carrying 100% of the load for the kids. Do you have a sitter? How do you handle summers and sick kids? My sitter was invaluable to us. We couldn’t have done it without her expertise and dedication.

I would recommend trying to reframe or redirect your resentment. You can afford help. If there’s a reason you can’t let go of everything, consider asking why. Otherwise, get help so you and your spouse can support one another.

Op here - kids are in elementary school and daycare. I handle sick days by staying home with them. Kids go to summer camp.

DH makes good money but not insane money even for a partner. I think last year he made $550k with bonus. So we can’t realistically pay a full time housekeeper or something like that.

Maybe we could have a nanny but we felt that daycare actually was a better fit for our extroverted kids who needed to be around other kids during the day. But I would be open to a part time helper to do laundry or cooking or dropping kids off at sports. How do you find someone who only wants to work a few hours a day?

Obviously I don’t know your situation, but if he’s a partner working those kinds of hours for $550k including bonus, you should consider looking at a different firm. Talk with a recruiter. That’s on the very low end of partnership (counsels at most top 100 make that) so makes me think this isn’t really big law but a small boutique or an income partner that’s really a counsel but called partner. Either way, no way those kind of hours and inflexibility for that amount of money.

Agree with this - that salary is low for biglaw partner and not worthwhile for those hours.

That said you can still outsource a lot more at that salary. I would look into daily evening help with cooking, chores, dishes etc. Like someone to help 5-7pm etc each night. Biweekly cleaner is a basic that ppl at much lower salaries have (like us - we are feds & former biglaw)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But, I also quit my job when I felt like a pizza that had been sliced into too many pieces. I didn’t resent my spouse; I resented my job. So I quit to have more time to balance it all.

I could’ve written this right now. My spouse is a big law partner and I don’t resent her for it whatsoever - she works hard, travels a bunch, but makes amazing money. My job is inflexible and pays a fraction of the money, but provides us with health insurance at low cost. (Firms don’t).

I don’t resent her job - I’m thrilled for her and for us. I resent the inflexibility of my job, the lack of understanding from my employer while she’s traveling, and am just generally burned out from doing my job + house care and childcare. I’m at the top of my career with no further upper mobility in terms of pay or job. But ready to call it quits and simplify my/our life and eliminate the stress. I understand not everyone has that option.

[Anonymous]

I always assume people who marry a person who works > 50 hours per week must just not really like each other very much. Who the hell would sign up for a long term relationship where you never see the person, much less with a person who never sees their own children. Nightmare fuel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been married 30 yrs. In that time we’ve had 4 kids, he’s gone from associate to partner, worked govt and also big law. I have worked full time 23 yrs. When I worked full time, I always had full time help. I had a house cleaner and sitter. Sometimes the sitter dropped kids off at after-school activities and I picked up. Sometimes I would take one to piano or violin lessons, leaving sitter with the other kids. I had 4 weeks vacation. She also got 4 weeks. I treated her like a salaried employee but she was more like family, so I never had issues there.

Of course I resented the hours at times, like when I was home with a newborn and he was traveling. I even had to be induced to fit his travel schedule.

But, I also quit my job when I felt like a pizza that had been sliced into too many pieces. I didn’t resent my spouse; I resented my job. So I quit to have more time to balance it all.

As you describe it, you are carrying 100% of the load for the kids. Do you have a sitter? How do you handle summers and sick kids? My sitter was invaluable to us. We couldn’t have done it without her expertise and dedication.

I would recommend trying to reframe or redirect your resentment. You can afford help. If there’s a reason you can’t let go of everything, consider asking why. Otherwise, get help so you and your spouse can support one another.

Op here - kids are in elementary school and daycare. I handle sick days by staying home with them. Kids go to summer camp.

DH makes good money but not insane money even for a partner. I think last year he made $550k with bonus. So we can’t realistically pay a full time housekeeper or something like that.

Maybe we could have a nanny but we felt that daycare actually was a better fit for our extroverted kids who needed to be around other kids during the day. But I would be open to a part time helper to do laundry or cooking or dropping kids off at sports. How do you find someone who only wants to work a few hours a day?

Obviously I don’t know your situation, but if he’s a partner working those kinds of hours for $550k including bonus, you should consider looking at a different firm. Talk with a recruiter. That’s on the very low end of partnership (counsels at most top 100 make that) so makes me think this isn’t really big law but a small boutique or an income partner that’s really a counsel but called partner. Either way, no way those kind of hours and inflexibility for that amount of money.

OP here - he is a first year partner (non-equity) in a AmLaw 100 firm but the firm is in the bottom 50. Rainmakers in his firm/group made upward of $8 million bonus last year, which was an exceedingly high bonus, but I think the average comp for partners in his firm is $1.2 million or something like that. Obviously that is an average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you continue to be supportive and not resentful of your spouses work hours? My DH has been in law for the entire time that I have known him. I obviously knew what the gig was before we got married and agreed to it. But over the years I feel like I have become more resentful of how many hours he works and the stress that comes with the job. He has moved up from staff attorney to counsel to partner in the past 12 years and the work hasn't lessened although the comp has gone up.

We have young children (under the age of 8) and I do the majority of the work. I also work fulltime in a flexible 40 hour a week job. I do all of the pick ups and drop offs, sports practices, doctors appointments, school related things. When he has downtime he helps where he can around the house, with the kids, church stuff, etc but when he is busy I know it will inevitably be a 6am-10pm sort of day for him and I will need to take care of everything else.

For those of you have raised kids and been there/done that with spouses in big law how did you handle it? Did you just get used to it over the years? I want to be less resentful and I know that he is doing this to provide a comfortable life for ourselves and our kids but it just gets to be a lot day in and day out.

This was my moms life when I was growing up. The answer is that she didn’t get over the resentment and my parents had a somewhat miserable marriage until recently when they both retired. My mom has always worked super hard in terms of raising us as kids and at her own full time (but more and far less high paying) flexible career. our lifestyle (big family, private schools etc.) would not have been possible without my dads financial success.

Looking back, I think my mom could have outsourced some things to make things easier for herself- like a full time housekeeper to cook and do laundry and tidy up. We had a cleaning lady who came twice a week and just cleaned the house (no laundry), but otherwise no help- not a nanny or babysitters or any other help. My advice to you is outsource as much as you can to lessen the burden on yourself, since you can afford to.

[Anonymous]

Nanny agency here.

SO MANY of my clients have one or both parents in big law. Many still have full time daycare and then they hire an almost full time household manager through me. Typically, this person works 11/12-7/8pm. While the kids are gone they handle all of the background tasks with the goal being if you (and DH) are not working, you can be enjoying your family time. So they do things such as family laundry, errands, grocery shopping, planning and booking travel or activities, buying/wrapping gifts, stocking the household with diapers, tp, baggies, toiletries, etc, making the kids routine doctor and dentist check ups, managing family and school calendars, packing for travel, regular clothes/toy donations, periodically cleaning toys/stroller/high chair/car seats, taking cars for washes and oil changes, making dinner, prepping breakfast so it's grab and go in the morning, etc. Then they do daycare/school pick up and help with the after school dinner, shuffling to activities, baths, etc. Then you likely have built in back up care for sick or no school days as well. It's around $68-75k all in for 30-40 hours per week, employer taxes, payroll and tax services, workers comp policy (if in DC or MD- VA doesn't require it), agency fee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your big problem is your debt. That's what is making your income feel "not enough."

I think the first thing you need to do is sit down with a financial advisor, or on your own if you think you can do it, and come up with a plan to pay off your student loans rapidly. If you have some loans locked in at very low rates, maybe keep those on a payment plan, but everything else, you should be looking to just pay off. I'd be looking to pay those off either entirely or at least anything at more than a 3% interest rate, within 24 months. If you can get rid of that debt, or at least get it down to maybe 50-60k locked in at low interest rates, it's going to totally change how you view your budget. Plus, that kind of debt when you have kids is a massive source of stress. Since the stress levels of your DH's job are an issue, you need to be looking for ways to eliminate other sources of stress.

I think your goal should be to get to the point where you can either quit your job OR afford a full time housekeeper/nanny who can help you share the load since your DH can't. Your income is not low in an absolute sense, but your DH has a job that assumes a SAHP or full time help, and that will never change. That's just how it is for law firm partners. So you either need to become a SAHM or hire full time help. Period.

If you pay down the loan debt, you might reach a point where you can more comfortably leave your job. I know people at that income level who pay for bare bones "catastrophic" health insurance and then pay for most actual health care out of pocket, and it makes more sense for them financially. There's also no reason, given your DH's income, why you have to go through your job for you retirement fund. Is it a government pension? I honestly am not sure it's worth it in your case. If it's a 401k with an employer match, it's definitely not worth it in our case. At your income, you have better mechanisms for savings and investment -- real estate, a bunch of money in low-fee index funds like Vanguard, etc. Again, a financial planner could help you with this. Or just buy a few financial planning books and figure it out. It's not rocket science, especially when you have your level of cash flow.

You guys are managing your finances like a couple in their late 20s or early 30s making under 200k. It's the debt that is doing it. Frankly, you should have done more to pay that down before having kids and before your DH made partner, but it's not too late. You need to grow up though. You have kids and your DH has a serious job and no one is going to feel sorry for you if you can't figure it out because you are very high income and put yourselves in this position.

OP here - yes agree our debt is the biggest factor in our budget.

We pay upward of $3000 per month on student loans. We should be done paying the majority of ours in the next 2-3 years I believe. The next highest payments are mortgage ($4,000) and daycare costs, which finally have gone done to one daycare but previously we were paying 3 daycare costs. Now we pay 1 daycare and then summer camps so if you average it around $1900 per month over 12 months.