Are men happier than women in marriage at midlife?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is actual research on this - marriage is generally very beneficial for men and not for women. In most marriages the woman is handling so much of what makes a life enjoyable - men benefit from that and women resent the imbalance.

It’s this. Women are over it because they feel like their DH is another child to care for and clean up after. Men are happy because they’ve successfully replaced their mother. They might be unhappy with the amount of sex, but also might recognize that being single at their age doesn’t guarantee much more sex than a reasonable healthy marriage, plus that sex would come with the burden of having to actually put effort into attracting a woman. You think these guys are prepared to romance a woman who doesn’t do all their laundry and make sure their kids have summer childcare and plan their vacations and remember their mom’s birthday and put up with even their shittiest friends? They are not prepared. They know the score and most of these guys are significantly better off staying married, even when it comes to sex.

Meanwhile, women fantasize about joint custody agreements that would force their DHs to actually do childcare, plus living in a home that is not shared with a grown adult who never cleans the bathroom or changes the sheets. There are tons of downsides to divorce but the upsides really target the pressure points for women— too little help with kids and the house, no alone time or true free time.

DH and I have a very traditional marriage. We follow the typical and nowadays despised gender roles. We are both very happy. I’m not saying this is for everyone and we didn’t start out this way. But we did discuss very detailed expectations before we got married about stuff like housework and for the most part we stick to it. When our situation changed and I started SAH, we discussed expectations again.

Maybe the answer is simply better communication?

[Anonymous]

Men start becoming unhappy once the first baby is born
I’d say most on line virtually cheat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Early 40s DW. I’m pretty over being married to my spouse. Nothing wrong with DH or our marriage, I just don’t feel a spark. A number of my female friends say they feel the Same. Yet, the men I know of the same age seem blissfully happy, including my DH.

What gives? Any DH out there want to shed light? DWs is it a perimenopause midlife crisis?

Men are not blissfully happy. I bet your husband is as unhappy(or much more unhappy vs your level)as you are. Many men are extremely lonely and isolated in their marriages. Men are told no one cares how you feel so suck it up and continue on.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men don't expect to be happy, and certainly don't think that's the purpose of being married.

But in truth, marriage should be explicitly presented to men as being "only valid until she decides she's no longer haaaaaappy and then she will take the kids and half your money" and see how many are still willing to sign up for that.

This is totally untrue. Just look at all the men leaving their wives for younger women and having sex all I over the place and not doing anything at home. Many think that is the only purpose of marriage. To have some sort of happiness doll that can be their possession and give them pleasure and take care of them.

I think many men WOULD leave their wives for a younger, more attractive woman, but I think this board also overestimates the ability of most married middle aged men, even those with good jobs, to attract younger women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men don't expect to be happy, and certainly don't think that's the purpose of being married.

But in truth, marriage should be explicitly presented to men as being "only valid until she decides she's no longer haaaaaappy and then she will take the kids and half your money" and see how many are still willing to sign up for that.

This is totally untrue. Just look at all the men leaving their wives for younger women and having sex all I over the place and not doing anything at home. Many think that is the only purpose of marriage. To have some sort of happiness doll that can be their possession and give them pleasure and take care of them.

I think many men WOULD leave their wives for a younger, more attractive woman, but I think this board also overestimates the ability of most married middle aged men, even those with good jobs, to attract younger women.

Only in DCUM do most men have good jobs. That's why this board is so skewed. The average male in this country does not have a good job. That's why they are miserable and stay in their marriages even if not happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Men start becoming unhappy once the first baby is born
I’d say most on line virtually cheat

My ex definitely fell off the cliff of happiness once the second was born. I learned later his dad did when the third was born. Why is this? Expectations went down for both of them. My theory is that they feel they are replaced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men start becoming unhappy once the first baby is born
I’d say most on line virtually cheat

My ex definitely fell off the cliff of happiness once the second was born. I learned later his dad did when the third was born. Why is this? Expectations went down for both of them. My theory is that they feel they are replaced.

I think for some families having multiple kids is the gateway to spending less time together. One parent does things with one kid and one with the other and the parents rarely see each other.

Also, financial pressure...I think for the average UMC family, they can easily afford one kid or maybe two. But the third one is definitely pressure, especially if one of the kids has special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men start becoming unhappy once the first baby is born
I’d say most on line virtually cheat

My ex definitely fell off the cliff of happiness once the second was born. I learned later his dad did when the third was born. Why is this? Expectations went down for both of them. My theory is that they feel they are replaced.

I think for some families having multiple kids is the gateway to spending less time together. One parent does things with one kid and one with the other and the parents rarely see each other.

Also, financial pressure...I think for the average UMC family, they can easily afford one kid or maybe two. But the third one is definitely pressure, especially if one of the kids has special needs.

No this was instantaneous. The men thought the child was their way out of the family life so kind of the other way around. They had a child as a way to escape home life. As if once the child was born they were done with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men start becoming unhappy once the first baby is born
I’d say most on line virtually cheat

My ex definitely fell off the cliff of happiness once the second was born. I learned later his dad did when the third was born. Why is this? Expectations went down for both of them. My theory is that they feel they are replaced.

I think for some families having multiple kids is the gateway to spending less time together. One parent does things with one kid and one with the other and the parents rarely see each other.

Also, financial pressure...I think for the average UMC family, they can easily afford one kid or maybe two. But the third one is definitely pressure, especially if one of the kids has special needs.

No this was instantaneous. The men thought the child was their way out of the family life so kind of the other way around. They had a child as a way to escape home life. As if once the child was born they were done with it.

Yeah, if the couple doesn't like each other to begin with, I think oftentimes the husband just kind of escapes into work and social life with his friends, and the wife "stays home with the baby" as an excuse and they live entirely separate lives. Pretty sure a few of the guys my DH plays golf with are like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men start becoming unhappy once the first baby is born
I’d say most on line virtually cheat

My ex definitely fell off the cliff of happiness once the second was born. I learned later his dad did when the third was born. Why is this? Expectations went down for both of them. My theory is that they feel they are replaced.

To a significant extent, they are replaced. Babies require a lot of attention. There's no avoiding that. But husband/fathers become invisible in a way that I don't think wives/mothers do. Combine that with men's usually weak social networks even without a baby, and it makes things worse. In a traditional situation where the man is working and expected to spend non-work hours relieving his wife from childcare duties, he's not going to have opportunities for social situations anyway. Mom might at least get out with the kid to hang with other moms during the day. She might get out for a girl's night after Dad comes home from work. There's a fantastic chance that the couple's sex life is going to tank for a couple of years at least.

None of that is to excuse men cheating. A real man can suck it up and endure. Forge a relationship with your kids. That alone is worth more than what you might lose. And if you can avoid doing unnecessary damage to your relationship with your wife, it might even bounce back to pre-baby quality or better in five or ten years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men start becoming unhappy once the first baby is born
I’d say most on line virtually cheat

My ex definitely fell off the cliff of happiness once the second was born. I learned later his dad did when the third was born. Why is this? Expectations went down for both of them. My theory is that they feel they are replaced.

To a significant extent, they are replaced. Babies require a lot of attention. There's no avoiding that. But husband/fathers become invisible in a way that I don't think wives/mothers do. Combine that with men's usually weak social networks even without a baby, and it makes things worse. In a traditional situation where the man is working and expected to spend non-work hours relieving his wife from childcare duties, he's not going to have opportunities for social situations anyway. Mom might at least get out with the kid to hang with other moms during the day. She might get out for a girl's night after Dad comes home from work. There's a fantastic chance that the couple's sex life is going to tank for a couple of years at least.

None of that is to excuse men cheating. A real man can suck it up and endure. Forge a relationship with your kids. That alone is worth more than what you might lose. And if you can avoid doing unnecessary damage to your relationship with your wife, it might even bounce back to pre-baby quality or better in five or ten years.

For men with childhood trauma/attachment issues (children of divorce/abandonment, alcoholic/addiction parents, parents that neglected), when the kids come along and take up most of the wife's time (and even more so if she is working too!), they see that subconsciously are triggered and that's when they look for a side piece. It's also what they learned from their family of origin, e.g., this is how to cope, this is what 'men' do. We see that on White Lotus2 with Dominic (albie's dad). He doesn't want to be that guy anymore and finally seeing why he is the way he is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men start becoming unhappy once the first baby is born
I’d say most on line virtually cheat

My ex definitely fell off the cliff of happiness once the second was born. I learned later his dad did when the third was born. Why is this? Expectations went down for both of them. My theory is that they feel they are replaced.

To a significant extent, they are replaced. Babies require a lot of attention. There's no avoiding that. But husband/fathers become invisible in a way that I don't think wives/mothers do. Combine that with men's usually weak social networks even without a baby, and it makes things worse. In a traditional situation where the man is working and expected to spend non-work hours relieving his wife from childcare duties, he's not going to have opportunities for social situations anyway. Mom might at least get out with the kid to hang with other moms during the day. She might get out for a girl's night after Dad comes home from work. There's a fantastic chance that the couple's sex life is going to tank for a couple of years at least.

None of that is to excuse men cheating. A real man can suck it up and endure. Forge a relationship with your kids. That alone is worth more than what you might lose. And if you can avoid doing unnecessary damage to your relationship with your wife, it might even bounce back to pre-baby quality or better in five or ten years.

See below. I completely agree, but men without role models from childhood do not know this is normal and that is why they continue the cycle of infidelity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is actual research on this - marriage is generally very beneficial for men and not for women. In most marriages the woman is handling so much of what makes a life enjoyable - men benefit from that and women resent the imbalance.

It’s this. Women are over it because they feel like their DH is another child to care for and clean up after. Men are happy because they’ve successfully replaced their mother. They might be unhappy with the amount of sex, but also might recognize that being single at their age doesn’t guarantee much more sex than a reasonable healthy marriage, plus that sex would come with the burden of having to actually put effort into attracting a woman. You think these guys are prepared to romance a woman who doesn’t do all their laundry and make sure their kids have summer childcare and plan their vacations and remember their mom’s birthday and put up with even their shittiest friends? They are not prepared. They know the score and most of these guys are significantly better off staying married, even when it comes to sex.

Meanwhile, women fantasize about joint custody agreements that would force their DHs to actually do childcare, plus living in a home that is not shared with a grown adult who never cleans the bathroom or changes the sheets. There are tons of downsides to divorce but the upsides really target the pressure points for women— too little help with kids and the house, no alone time or true free time.

DH and I have a very traditional marriage. We follow the typical and nowadays despised gender roles. We are both very happy. I’m not saying this is for everyone and we didn’t start out this way. But we did discuss very detailed expectations before we got married about stuff like housework and for the most part we stick to it. When our situation changed and I started SAH, we discussed expectations again.

Maybe the answer is simply better communication?

That's part of it, but a bigger part of it is commitment to your responsibilities. Lots of men say they will do things but then when it comes time to do it they just don't, or do things really poorly, like giving kids hot dogs every time it's their turn to make dinner.

But for what it's worth I am also in a marriage where we do the typical gender roles. It started out that way probably because we are religious, but even after becoming atheists we have kept it up and it works well for us. I don't love cleaning messes and making dinner, but I'd prefer that to trying to manage working out the home and outsourcing childcare, cleaning, etc. And honestly I haven't mowed a lawn in my life and I plan on keeping it that way. DH doesn't do the nitty gritty kid stuff like enrolling kids in activities, researching the best way to approach a 504 meeting, taking the kids to dentist appointments, and obviously all the childcare during the workday, but he does half the bedtime routine and spends plenty of time with the kids. We didn't actually communicate much about all this. I think we are just both committed to being the best parents and spouses we can be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men start becoming unhappy once the first baby is born
I’d say most on line virtually cheat

My ex definitely fell off the cliff of happiness once the second was born. I learned later his dad did when the third was born. Why is this? Expectations went down for both of them. My theory is that they feel they are replaced.

To a significant extent, they are replaced. Babies require a lot of attention. There's no avoiding that. But husband/fathers become invisible in a way that I don't think wives/mothers do. Combine that with men's usually weak social networks even without a baby, and it makes things worse. In a traditional situation where the man is working and expected to spend non-work hours relieving his wife from childcare duties, he's not going to have opportunities for social situations anyway. Mom might at least get out with the kid to hang with other moms during the day. She might get out for a girl's night after Dad comes home from work. There's a fantastic chance that the couple's sex life is going to tank for a couple of years at least.

None of that is to excuse men cheating. A real man can suck it up and endure. Forge a relationship with your kids. That alone is worth more than what you might lose. And if you can avoid doing unnecessary damage to your relationship with your wife, it might even bounce back to pre-baby quality or better in five or ten years.

For men with childhood trauma/attachment issues (children of divorce/abandonment, alcoholic/addiction parents, parents that neglected), when the kids come along and take up most of the wife's time (and even more so if she is working too!), they see that subconsciously are triggered and that's when they look for a side piece. It's also what they learned from their family of origin, e.g., this is how to cope, this is what 'men' do. We see that on White Lotus2 with Dominic (albie's dad). He doesn't want to be that guy anymore and finally seeing why he is the way he is.

Well, shit. This is eye-opening. Thanks.

I never cheated, but I definitely felt a lot of negative things when my wife lost interest in me and was all-consumed by the kids. My father bailed on us when I was about two years old. My mom and step-dad weren't very attentive. I didn't bail on the family though, I went the other direction and put a lot of effort into being a good dad. If I'm honest, part of my dad-energy had to do with resentment toward my own father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men don't expect to be happy, and certainly don't think that's the purpose of being married.

But in truth, marriage should be explicitly presented to men as being "only valid until she decides she's no longer haaaaaappy and then she will take the kids and half your money" and see how many are still willing to sign up for that.

This is totally untrue. Just look at all the men leaving their wives for younger women and having sex all I over the place and not doing anything at home. Many think that is the only purpose of marriage. To have some sort of happiness doll that can be their possession and give them pleasure and take care of them.

I think many men WOULD leave their wives for a younger, more attractive woman, but I think this board also overestimates the ability of most married middle aged men, even those with good jobs, to attract younger women.

A truly wealthy man will have no problem getting a hot pierce of as$.