What do you do when your adult child goes into therapy and lays blame at your feet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is in pain and he is expressing it and you want to make it go away with a quick "I'm sorry if I anything I did contributed to your unhappiness."

Obviously that is not going to be satisfying for your son! He doesn't want a throwaway non-apology, he wants you to listen and validate his feelings. Why not actually talk it through with him, admit that you made mistakes (specific, not a general "sorry if I made some mistakes") and explain why you did the things you did? Not to make it go away, but so he can see you that you actually care.

I don't think he has doubts that we care. I will admit somethings were mistakes, like homeschooling - it didn't work for him, he fought it. Other things like church were not a mistake even though he doesn't attend church now. The opportunity to go to college was not a mistake. He didn't like it and his grades weren’t good, but he had the chance to try it, but dropped out. Our marriage was challenging and I wish we hid it better from the kids. We did the best we knew at the time. If these are the worse things we did, we should be forgiven.

Let me spell this out for you. Your son grew up in an unstable, high-conflict household. On top of this, the two people in the dysfunctional, high-conflict marriage he was born into were also intensely controlling and gave him no opportunity to be exposed to a normal, non-dysfunctional environment (homeschooling, forcing a specific church on him).

And this is just from what you’ve told us.

Strongly suspect that your son was homeschooled for religious reasons. This feels so familiar- saying you know you weren’t perfect (but it wasn’t that bad), trying to explain everything away as him having been a challenging kid (and universally responding to it with an authoritarian style of parenting)… feels very old school evangelical and I’m not surprised that 1) your kid finally broke, and 2) you still can’t handle hearing- actually hearing- what he is telling you.

You’re a crazed loon. What are you smoking, and can I have some?

You make a huge leap from OP’s “Challenging marriage” to claiming she was in a “high conflict marriage.” These two are not the same. And your equation of church with abnormal disfunction says less about OP’s particular church and more about your rabid bigotry.

And where did you get the idea OP is “intensely controlling” and “universally authoritarian” and gave him “no opportunity to be exposed to normal, non-disfuncional environments”? Did you just go ahead and assume OP never let her kid choose his own clothing, musical instrument, hobbies, sports team, band, or play with the neighborhood kids?

You really need to get a therapist of your own and work out your mommy issues and your issues with trying to shoehorn others’ experiences into your own facts.

— pp who identified her two kids above

the fact is - OP claiming that she is totally blameless, deserves to be forgiven, her son is “difficult” … then dropping parenting decisions that could have been dysfunctional (homeschool, rigid religous expectations, pressure to go to college) raises a TON of questions. Nobody knows what OP was like as a parent, but there is more than enough here to strongly believe in the possibility that OP is in denial about her parenting.

OP never ever said she was totally blameless. She even said she made mistakes and listed a few, like the marriage issues. You use phrases like “could have been” and “raises question” and “believe” so it looks like you’re reluctantly admitting that WE JUST DON’T KNOW. Where you go off the rails is when you take your surmises and your beliefs and use that to justify your social media cruelty.

yeah we just don’t know. which suggests that OP should meaningfully engage with her son and try to understand, instead of insisting she should be forgiven immediately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is in pain and he is expressing it and you want to make it go away with a quick "I'm sorry if I anything I did contributed to your unhappiness."

Obviously that is not going to be satisfying for your son! He doesn't want a throwaway non-apology, he wants you to listen and validate his feelings. Why not actually talk it through with him, admit that you made mistakes (specific, not a general "sorry if I made some mistakes") and explain why you did the things you did? Not to make it go away, but so he can see you that you actually care.

I don't think he has doubts that we care. I will admit somethings were mistakes, like homeschooling - it didn't work for him, he fought it. Other things like church were not a mistake even though he doesn't attend church now. The opportunity to go to college was not a mistake. He didn't like it and his grades weren’t good, but he had the chance to try it, but dropped out. Our marriage was challenging and I wish we hid it better from the kids. We did the best we knew at the time. If these are the worse things we did, we should be forgiven.

Let me spell this out for you. Your son grew up in an unstable, high-conflict household. On top of this, the two people in the dysfunctional, high-conflict marriage he was born into were also intensely controlling and gave him no opportunity to be exposed to a normal, non-dysfunctional environment (homeschooling, forcing a specific church on him).

And this is just from what you’ve told us.

Strongly suspect that your son was homeschooled for religious reasons. This feels so familiar- saying you know you weren’t perfect (but it wasn’t that bad), trying to explain everything away as him having been a challenging kid (and universally responding to it with an authoritarian style of parenting)… feels very old school evangelical and I’m not surprised that 1) your kid finally broke, and 2) you still can’t handle hearing- actually hearing- what he is telling you.

You’re a crazed loon. What are you smoking, and can I have some?

You make a huge leap from OP’s “Challenging marriage” to claiming she was in a “high conflict marriage.” These two are not the same. And your equation of church with abnormal disfunction says less about OP’s particular church and more about your rabid bigotry.

And where did you get the idea OP is “intensely controlling” and “universally authoritarian” and gave him “no opportunity to be exposed to normal, non-disfuncional environments”? Did you just go ahead and assume OP never let her kid choose his own clothing, musical instrument, hobbies, sports team, band, or play with the neighborhood kids?

You really need to get a therapist of your own and work out your mommy issues and your issues with trying to shoehorn others’ experiences into your own facts.

— pp who identified her two kids above

the fact is - OP claiming that she is totally blameless, deserves to be forgiven, her son is “difficult” … then dropping parenting decisions that could have been dysfunctional (homeschool, rigid religous expectations, pressure to go to college) raises a TON of questions. Nobody knows what OP was like as a parent, but there is more than enough here to strongly believe in the possibility that OP is in denial about her parenting.

OP never ever said she was totally blameless. She even said she made mistakes and listed a few, like the marriage issues. You use phrases like “could have been” and “raises question” and “believe” so it looks like you’re reluctantly admitting that WE JUST DON’T KNOW. Where you go off the rails is when you take your surmises and your beliefs and use that to justify your social media cruelty.

yeah we just don’t know. which suggests that OP should meaningfully engage with her son and try to understand, instead of insisting she should be forgiven immediately.

OP never said that—another thing you made up. Social media cruelty at its lying finest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If you comment on this thread please list how many kids you have raised. And their ages so we can understand your experience or lack of it.

You first. Please also note if your adult children are in any type of contact with you and if they come to you for support, guidance or advice. If they moved across the country or to another country, that is of interest, too.

Why is their location relevant?

Proxy on whether they are trying to escape you.

Or maybe that's where their job is.

Or their grad school (like my kid)

Too bad there are no high paying jobs for young graduates here in the DMV...wait a minute!

Good lord. So when my kid finishes grad school, she shouldn’t take that cool job where she interned and they’ve all but offered her a FT job, because it’s out of state and she should stay near me, her mommy?

You are truly nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is in pain and he is expressing it and you want to make it go away with a quick "I'm sorry if I anything I did contributed to your unhappiness."

Obviously that is not going to be satisfying for your son! He doesn't want a throwaway non-apology, he wants you to listen and validate his feelings. Why not actually talk it through with him, admit that you made mistakes (specific, not a general "sorry if I made some mistakes") and explain why you did the things you did? Not to make it go away, but so he can see you that you actually care.

I don't think he has doubts that we care. I will admit somethings were mistakes, like homeschooling - it didn't work for him, he fought it. Other things like church were not a mistake even though he doesn't attend church now. The opportunity to go to college was not a mistake. He didn't like it and his grades weren’t good, but he had the chance to try it, but dropped out. Our marriage was challenging and I wish we hid it better from the kids. We did the best we knew at the time. If these are the worse things we did, we should be forgiven.

Let me spell this out for you. Your son grew up in an unstable, high-conflict household. On top of this, the two people in the dysfunctional, high-conflict marriage he was born into were also intensely controlling and gave him no opportunity to be exposed to a normal, non-dysfunctional environment (homeschooling, forcing a specific church on him).

And this is just from what you’ve told us.

Strongly suspect that your son was homeschooled for religious reasons. This feels so familiar- saying you know you weren’t perfect (but it wasn’t that bad), trying to explain everything away as him having been a challenging kid (and universally responding to it with an authoritarian style of parenting)… feels very old school evangelical and I’m not surprised that 1) your kid finally broke, and 2) you still can’t handle hearing- actually hearing- what he is telling you.

You’re a crazed loon. What are you smoking, and can I have some?

You make a huge leap from OP’s “Challenging marriage” to claiming she was in a “high conflict marriage.” These two are not the same. And your equation of church with abnormal disfunction says less about OP’s particular church and more about your rabid bigotry.

And where did you get the idea OP is “intensely controlling” and “universally authoritarian” and gave him “no opportunity to be exposed to normal, non-disfuncional environments”? Did you just go ahead and assume OP never let her kid choose his own clothing, musical instrument, hobbies, sports team, band, or play with the neighborhood kids?

You really need to get a therapist of your own and work out your mommy issues and your issues with trying to shoehorn others’ experiences into your own facts.

— pp who identified her two kids above

the fact is - OP claiming that she is totally blameless, deserves to be forgiven, her son is “difficult” … then dropping parenting decisions that could have been dysfunctional (homeschool, rigid religous expectations, pressure to go to college) raises a TON of questions. Nobody knows what OP was like as a parent, but there is more than enough here to strongly believe in the possibility that OP is in denial about her parenting.

OP never ever said she was totally blameless. She even said she made mistakes and listed a few, like the marriage issues. You use phrases like “could have been” and “raises question” and “believe” so it looks like you’re reluctantly admitting that WE JUST DON’T KNOW. Where you go off the rails is when you take your surmises and your beliefs and use that to justify your social media cruelty.

yeah we just don’t know. which suggests that OP should meaningfully engage with her son and try to understand, instead of insisting she should be forgiven immediately.

OP never said that—another thing you made up. Social media cruelty at its lying finest.

OP said she should be forgiven and listed no steps for repair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is in pain and he is expressing it and you want to make it go away with a quick "I'm sorry if I anything I did contributed to your unhappiness."

Obviously that is not going to be satisfying for your son! He doesn't want a throwaway non-apology, he wants you to listen and validate his feelings. Why not actually talk it through with him, admit that you made mistakes (specific, not a general "sorry if I made some mistakes") and explain why you did the things you did? Not to make it go away, but so he can see you that you actually care.

I don't think he has doubts that we care. I will admit somethings were mistakes, like homeschooling - it didn't work for him, he fought it. Other things like church were not a mistake even though he doesn't attend church now. The opportunity to go to college was not a mistake. He didn't like it and his grades weren’t good, but he had the chance to try it, but dropped out. Our marriage was challenging and I wish we hid it better from the kids. We did the best we knew at the time. If these are the worse things we did, we should be forgiven.

Let me spell this out for you. Your son grew up in an unstable, high-conflict household. On top of this, the two people in the dysfunctional, high-conflict marriage he was born into were also intensely controlling and gave him no opportunity to be exposed to a normal, non-dysfunctional environment (homeschooling, forcing a specific church on him).

And this is just from what you’ve told us.

Strongly suspect that your son was homeschooled for religious reasons. This feels so familiar- saying you know you weren’t perfect (but it wasn’t that bad), trying to explain everything away as him having been a challenging kid (and universally responding to it with an authoritarian style of parenting)… feels very old school evangelical and I’m not surprised that 1) your kid finally broke, and 2) you still can’t handle hearing- actually hearing- what he is telling you.

You’re a crazed loon. What are you smoking, and can I have some?

You make a huge leap from OP’s “Challenging marriage” to claiming she was in a “high conflict marriage.” These two are not the same. And your equation of church with abnormal disfunction says less about OP’s particular church and more about your rabid bigotry.

And where did you get the idea OP is “intensely controlling” and “universally authoritarian” and gave him “no opportunity to be exposed to normal, non-disfuncional environments”? Did you just go ahead and assume OP never let her kid choose his own clothing, musical instrument, hobbies, sports team, band, or play with the neighborhood kids?

You really need to get a therapist of your own and work out your mommy issues and your issues with trying to shoehorn others’ experiences into your own facts.

— pp who identified her two kids above

the fact is - OP claiming that she is totally blameless, deserves to be forgiven, her son is “difficult” … then dropping parenting decisions that could have been dysfunctional (homeschool, rigid religous expectations, pressure to go to college) raises a TON of questions. Nobody knows what OP was like as a parent, but there is more than enough here to strongly believe in the possibility that OP is in denial about her parenting.

OP never ever said she was totally blameless. She even said she made mistakes and listed a few, like the marriage issues. You use phrases like “could have been” and “raises question” and “believe” so it looks like you’re reluctantly admitting that WE JUST DON’T KNOW. Where you go off the rails is when you take your surmises and your beliefs and use that to justify your social media cruelty.

yeah we just don’t know. which suggests that OP should meaningfully engage with her son and try to understand, instead of insisting she should be forgiven immediately.

OP never said that—another thing you made up. Social media cruelty at its lying finest.

Well OP did says she should be forgiven.

You’re gonna need to cite that post. Oh wait, it doesn’t exist. OP said she apologized, she admitted to doing a few things wrong (and she listed those things) and she complained about how the blame hurt.

What’s your relationship with your own kids, again? Oh wait, you don’t have any kids.

OP, did you post and delete this: "I don't think he has doubts that we care. I will admit somethings were mistakes, like homeschooling - it didn't work for him, he fought it. Other things like church were not a mistake even though he doesn't attend church now. The opportunity to go to college was not a mistake. He didn't like it and his grades weren’t good, but he had the chance to try it, but dropped out. Our marriage was challenging and I wish we hid it better from the kids. We did the best we knew at the time. If these are the worse things we did, we should be forgiven."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone should try therapy. But therapy should make people feel better, not worse. It should help someone understand where their parents are coming from and help them unravel their feelings, not help them have bad feelings for their parents. Because unless parents raped their children (which happens) or abandoned them (happens) or beat them severely or brought johns home while their kids were in the house, or put zero effort into being there for them, moving away and leaving them behind, etc., then it's a good bet their parents did actually the best they could. This is reality. A good therapist should know that just from listening to so many people. If they are not wise, they are useless.

I agree. Pointing the finger at your parents is easier than owning your own sh*t and healing your own heart. A therapist should heal not encourage resentment that festers. When young people become parents they usually get an appreciation of how hard it is to be a parent and they get a better perspective on their own parents. Sometimes they realize they owe their parents an apology for their behavior as a young person.

Or sometimes becoming a parent makes you realize what a poor job your parents did.

+1000. Becoming a parent made me a) realize how poor a job my parents did and b) resolve to do almost everything the opposite w my own kids. I had never thought that much about parenting before getting pregnant w my first. Before having kids I didn’t fully understand just how lacking my parents were and how strongly I felt about wanting to do so much better for my kids.

But intention does not matter according to all these people bashing a loving parent. So did you go to a university and get a child rearing degree before you get pregnant?

Nobody said intent doesn't matter. We just said that impact matters too, and if a parent really cares about how their kids are feeling they will also care about impact and won't make it *all* about intent.

It's one thing to say "I did my best, but I see that you suffered some hurt and I'm sorry for that."

It's another to say "I gave up everything for you and did my best, I deserve some understanding, your issues are your responsibility and not mine."

All of this can be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

I never said DS ruined my life as a mother, just that he was challenging because he was not an easy baby and was a rebellious teenager and young adult. I wonder if it's his nature and no amount of therapy will change it so maybe we're not the cause of his unhappiness.

No wonder he has issues. You had one job: raise the child you had. What mother blames a child's personality or temperament as the reason for his unhappiness. As a homeschooling parent, you had double the time with him than most parents get. You missed an opportunity to help him learn to navigate life. You prioritized your spouse and easy kids over him, the one who needed your unconditional love the most. Honestly, if he gets through the thereputic process and still wants a relationship with you, you shoukd fall to your knees and thank your god.

How do you know this? She could have had many jobs. Just because she didn't mention it doesn't mean she wasn't working or helping out other family members.

As a parent, what is more pressing, more important than raising your kid? Childhood is precious and, if as a parent, you eff it up, your child pays the price in adulthood. If you aren't up to the task of raising a child into a well adjusted, secure adult, don't have kids.

This is purely a 21st century thing. I am not saying raising your kid isn't important BUT most people have to have jobs to raise their kids and all parents today were raised by imperfect parents who were also working and trying to do their best. It isn't a all or nothing thing having kids. You sound like a very black and white thinker.

My mom had a sick husband, a mom that needed her , a jjob and three kids. Plus she had her own needs as well. Moms/Dads are not robots.

It is a 20 year investment in one's child(ren). I get that sh1t happens, but my kids come first. I'm not saying sah or homeschool. I'm saying have a child centered home where the kids' feelings and opinions are valued and where they have a loving, safe, secure, and peaceful childhood. Childhood is precious. Do you really want to eff your kids over? I am a black and white thinker. You know why? My parents f#cked me up. My kids are close to adulthood and their life experience is vastly superior to my and dh's. Nothing is more important than our kids, including and especially our sh1tty parents.

This is scary. I would not be surprised if your kids have issues later.

Being a black and white thinker serves me well. I make quick decisions, I suffer no uncertainty and I am deliberate in my actions. I do not visit my abusive childhood or my shortcomings(due to my abusive childhood) upon my children. I am a master at compartmentalization and my children receive the absolute best care from me and their father, who has no traumatic past. The kids will be fine. Should they one day come to me with complaints or mental injuries from my parenting, I will 100% acknowledge, support and apologize. I'll even pay for therapy.

In other words, your advice is useless. Everyone is a perfect parent before they have kids. Come back to us with how perfectly you'll handle yourself when you've actually got adult kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

That's probably not why she brings it up.

[Anonymous]

I am sick of being responsible for other adults. I've done raising kids. Now I am taking care of aging parents and they are dumping on me as well. They are dying, so they have priority over my adult children. I don't have time for their self healing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in my 20's I went into therapy because I was unhappy and struggling with life. I was angry with my dysfunctional parents for my difficult childhood. I was focused on me me me and what I needed.

I wrote my Dad a letter about how his alcoholism and marital abuse affected me and my life. He never responded but I am sure it hit him in the gut. Years later I realized that's all I really wanted, to inflict maximum pain on my parents. Hurt people, hurt people. It seemed fair at the time. I was satisfied.

Decades later I see my parents (now dead) in a larger picture, they were products of their upbringing. They were raised in the depression, large families, under brutal parents and religion. They themselves had too many kids to manage successfully because birth control wasn't available. They struggled to keep a marriage together under the stress of not enough money and too many kids.

So decades later, I feel sorry for them not angry with them. It took some living to see the picture clearly.

I told my father something really terrible, on the advice of an older friend I cpmsidered wise and mature and knew all about psychological things. It ruined any chance we had of ever repairing our relationship. Huge mistake. He's been dead for a long time and i still regret it as if it just happened every time I think about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sick of being responsible for other adults. I've done raising kids. Now I am taking care of aging parents and they are dumping on me as well. They are dying, so they have priority over my adult children. I don't have time for their self healing.

I also don't see them lifting fingers to help grandparents who loved and pampered them when they were young. I don't even think they deserve my attention right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Are you from around here??? Have you read any posts on DCUM about kids going to college? Any? At all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Let’s cut the crap and the “surmising,” pp. This is about your rabid hatred of religion, isn’t it? I’m not particularly religious. From here you seem unhinged.

I didn’t write anything about religion previously. But since you asked - yes, the same parents who will unduly pressure kids about religion are the same parents who will unduly pressure kids about college.

So what. Both of those things -- college and religion -- are things most kids don't want at the time but later in life are grateful that their parents forced on them. Feeling comfortable in religious settings in important all throughout life -- there are funerals, people get married, friends' kids get baptized or the equivalent, there are bar mitzvahs etc etc. Most people have religious rituals in their lives, even if they're just guests. There is nothing wrong with religion. Even if they end up not believing, understanding how the majority of people on earth behave is part of cultural literacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

You are a mess, PP.

DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Let’s cut the crap and the “surmising,” pp. This is about your rabid hatred of religion, isn’t it? I’m not particularly religious. From here you seem unhinged.

I didn’t write anything about religion previously. But since you asked - yes, the same parents who will unduly pressure kids about religion are the same parents who will unduly pressure kids about college.

So what. Both of those things -- college and religion -- are things most kids don't want at the time but later in life are grateful that their parents forced on them. Feeling comfortable in religious settings in important all throughout life -- there are funerals, people get married, friends' kids get baptized or the equivalent, there are bar mitzvahs etc etc. Most people have religious rituals in their lives, even if they're just guests. There is nothing wrong with religion. Even if they end up not believing, understanding how the majority of people on earth behave is part of cultural literacy.

Absolutely incorrect.