What do you do when your adult child goes into therapy and lays blame at your feet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is in pain and he is expressing it and you want to make it go away with a quick "I'm sorry if I anything I did contributed to your unhappiness."

Obviously that is not going to be satisfying for your son! He doesn't want a throwaway non-apology, he wants you to listen and validate his feelings. Why not actually talk it through with him, admit that you made mistakes (specific, not a general "sorry if I made some mistakes") and explain why you did the things you did? Not to make it go away, but so he can see you that you actually care.

I don't think he has doubts that we care. I will admit somethings were mistakes, like homeschooling - it didn't work for him, he fought it. Other things like church were not a mistake even though he doesn't attend church now. The opportunity to go to college was not a mistake. He didn't like it and his grades weren’t good, but he had the chance to try it, but dropped out. Our marriage was challenging and I wish we hid it better from the kids. We did the best we knew at the time. If these are the worse things we did, we should be forgiven.

Let me spell this out for you. Your son grew up in an unstable, high-conflict household. On top of this, the two people in the dysfunctional, high-conflict marriage he was born into were also intensely controlling and gave him no opportunity to be exposed to a normal, non-dysfunctional environment (homeschooling, forcing a specific church on him).

And this is just from what you’ve told us.

Strongly suspect that your son was homeschooled for religious reasons. This feels so familiar- saying you know you weren’t perfect (but it wasn’t that bad), trying to explain everything away as him having been a challenging kid (and universally responding to it with an authoritarian style of parenting)… feels very old school evangelical and I’m not surprised that 1) your kid finally broke, and 2) you still can’t handle hearing- actually hearing- what he is telling you.

You’re a crazed loon. What are you smoking, and can I have some?

You make a huge leap from OP’s “Challenging marriage” to claiming she was in a “high conflict marriage.” These two are not the same. And your equation of church with abnormal disfunction says less about OP’s particular church and more about your rabid bigotry.

And where did you get the idea OP is “intensely controlling” and “universally authoritarian” and gave him “no opportunity to be exposed to normal, non-disfuncional environments”? Did you just go ahead and assume OP never let her kid choose his own clothing, musical instrument, hobbies, sports team, band, or play with the neighborhood kids?

You really need to get a therapist of your own and work out your mommy issues and your issues with trying to shoehorn others’ experiences into your own facts.

— pp who identified her two kids above

Every time you type “mommy issues” (repeatedly — yes, we know it’s you), you embarrass yourself. If that’s your goal, by all means, keep at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Ok, consider OP’s son’s note more like an fyi. Now what?

For which one of them? I must say, I do not care much about the mom in this scenario. She was given the gift of a healthy boy, and she screwed him up with her crappy lifestyle, bad decisions and poor mental health. Good luck to her?

For the son, I hope he continues in therapy, limits his contact with his mom, learns as an adult the things he would have learned as a child in a healthy upbringing, and finds love and peace.

I’m sorry, posting error. I was responding to the person who responded to you that adults have to fix their own lives. Does anyone doubt that? But OP’s son gave her a chance for a closer relationship and she (and many posters) are just stuck in their emotional immaturity.

I doubt the intention was to have a closer relationship. More likely the intention was to deliver a sucker punch. After raising a challenging child, it feels like a thankless job. Parenting is tough and it never ends.

NP. I agree but there is far from a consensus on this thread about that.

Also, I think an adult child can try to have a close relationship but also want to sucker punch. This is exactly what teens do. They want closeness but they also want independence and being mean is a way of doing that. It's highly immature and never appropriate, especially as you get older, but as parents we have to avoid getting defensive (even though it hurts) and look at the bigger picture. We set boundaries but we also see that if somebody is talking to us about things, that means they haven't written us off entirely. It's when somebody stops communicating that we know they aren't trying for a better relationship.

And yes in an adult child forum these are adults we are talking about, but remember that the brain doesn't actually fully mature until well after 18, and when it's your child it's good to give somebody an extra dose of patience and grace. As parents we are always the older ones, always the ones who are expected to be more mature, and we can set the example.

THE KID IS 30. STAY ON TOPIC!!!

[Anonymous]

Lot of people getting their consciences poked. Better double down with the vitriol and stamp on those who relate to ops kids. There are a few of you, so you can take comfort that you're all RIGHT and the rest of us are losers, just like your dumb kids. Can't wait till they're out of your hair, am I right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lot of people getting their consciences poked. Better double down with the vitriol and stamp on those who relate to ops kids. There are a few of you, so you can take comfort that you're all RIGHT and the rest of us are losers, just like your dumb kids. Can't wait till they're out of your hair, am I right?

You need to stop projecting your own issues onto OP and other posters. It’s not healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Are you from around here??? Have you read any posts on DCUM about kids going to college? Any? At all?

she homeschooled him and then he flunked out of college …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Are you from around here??? Have you read any posts on DCUM about kids going to college? Any? At all?

she homeschooled him and then he flunked out of college …

You don’t have kids, so it’s a little hard to take you seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of people getting their consciences poked. Better double down with the vitriol and stamp on those who relate to ops kids. There are a few of you, so you can take comfort that you're all RIGHT and the rest of us are losers, just like your dumb kids. Can't wait till they're out of your hair, am I right?

You need to stop projecting your own issues onto OP and other posters. It’s not healthy.

DP. We don’t need to project anything on OP. Her own words show she is absolutely unwilling to try to understand her son’s perspective and cannot tolerate the fact that she might have done some things wrong that can’t be immediately swept under the rug. She’s willing to admit that there were some challenges, but not willing to allow that her son could have been affected by her actions, and not willing to engage in an emotionally mature discussion about the past. None of that is healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Are you from around here??? Have you read any posts on DCUM about kids going to college? Any? At all?

she homeschooled him and then he flunked out of college …

You don’t have kids, so it’s a little hard to take you seriously.

Why would you think I don’t have kids? I have kids, and parents like OP who can do no wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lot of people getting their consciences poked. Better double down with the vitriol and stamp on those who relate to ops kids. There are a few of you, so you can take comfort that you're all RIGHT and the rest of us are losers, just like your dumb kids. Can't wait till they're out of your hair, am I right?

The problem is you keep assigning all of your problems to the OP and now onto other posters. You can't see things clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of people getting their consciences poked. Better double down with the vitriol and stamp on those who relate to ops kids. There are a few of you, so you can take comfort that you're all RIGHT and the rest of us are losers, just like your dumb kids. Can't wait till they're out of your hair, am I right?

You need to stop projecting your own issues onto OP and other posters. It’s not healthy.

DP. We don’t need to project anything on OP. Her own words show she is absolutely unwilling to try to understand her son’s perspective and cannot tolerate the fact that she might have done some things wrong that can’t be immediately swept under the rug. She’s willing to admit that there were some challenges, but not willing to allow that her son could have been affected by her actions, and not willing to engage in an emotionally mature discussion about the past. None of that is healthy.

You are extreme and demanding. OP sounds hurt and troubled by her son's letter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of people getting their consciences poked. Better double down with the vitriol and stamp on those who relate to ops kids. There are a few of you, so you can take comfort that you're all RIGHT and the rest of us are losers, just like your dumb kids. Can't wait till they're out of your hair, am I right?

You need to stop projecting your own issues onto OP and other posters. It’s not healthy.

DP. We don’t need to project anything on OP. Her own words show she is absolutely unwilling to try to understand her son’s perspective and cannot tolerate the fact that she might have done some things wrong that can’t be immediately swept under the rug. She’s willing to admit that there were some challenges, but not willing to allow that her son could have been affected by her actions, and not willing to engage in an emotionally mature discussion about the past. None of that is healthy.

You are extreme and demanding. OP sounds hurt and troubled by her son's letter.

Yes, because it would shatter her egoto admit she f*cked up with her son. If she truly loves her sons and wants him to heal and be at peace, all she has to do is acknowledge his feelings. There is no need to assign blame or destroy ones ego, just say, "I'm sorry and I'm willing to listen and support you while you work through this". Don't let your need to be right destroy your relationship with your adult child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of people getting their consciences poked. Better double down with the vitriol and stamp on those who relate to ops kids. There are a few of you, so you can take comfort that you're all RIGHT and the rest of us are losers, just like your dumb kids. Can't wait till they're out of your hair, am I right?

You need to stop projecting your own issues onto OP and other posters. It’s not healthy.

DP. We don’t need to project anything on OP. Her own words show she is absolutely unwilling to try to understand her son’s perspective and cannot tolerate the fact that she might have done some things wrong that can’t be immediately swept under the rug. She’s willing to admit that there were some challenges, but not willing to allow that her son could have been affected by her actions, and not willing to engage in an emotionally mature discussion about the past. None of that is healthy.

You are extreme and demanding. OP sounds hurt and troubled by her son's letter.

Yes, because it would shatter her egoto admit she f*cked up with her son. If she truly loves her sons and wants him to heal and be at peace, all she has to do is acknowledge his feelings. There is no need to assign blame or destroy ones ego, just say, "I'm sorry and I'm willing to listen and support you while you work through this". Don't let your need to be right destroy your relationship with your adult child.

You should be telling your parents that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of people getting their consciences poked. Better double down with the vitriol and stamp on those who relate to ops kids. There are a few of you, so you can take comfort that you're all RIGHT and the rest of us are losers, just like your dumb kids. Can't wait till they're out of your hair, am I right?

You need to stop projecting your own issues onto OP and other posters. It’s not healthy.

DP. We don’t need to project anything on OP. Her own words show she is absolutely unwilling to try to understand her son’s perspective and cannot tolerate the fact that she might have done some things wrong that can’t be immediately swept under the rug. She’s willing to admit that there were some challenges, but not willing to allow that her son could have been affected by her actions, and not willing to engage in an emotionally mature discussion about the past. None of that is healthy.

You are extreme and demanding. OP sounds hurt and troubled by her son's letter.

So, what? Nothing I wrote indicated she’s wrong for feeling hurt and troubled. The question is how OP reacts to being hurt. Does she react defensively, refuse to believe anything could be wrong, refuse to listen, refuse to consider her own role? Or can she tolerate the pain and accept that her son has a different reality? So far OP seems to be firmly in the denial camp.

[Anonymous]

I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.