What do you do when your adult child goes into therapy and lays blame at your feet.

[Anonymous]

I am sure you were a good parent OP
Some kids are just duds unfortunately

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

A poster who reads and understands other posts, and who doesn’t try to slap her own mommy issues on to them, obviously.

A poster with an overinflated ego who vastly overestimates her own importance.

There, I fixed it for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

A poster who reads and understands other posts, and who doesn’t try to slap her own mommy issues on to them, obviously.

You're an idiot. You can make sentences, but not connections. You can express thoughts, but not ideas. You lack intuition. You lack intelligence. Plenty of profiles for you, but I will go with: Female, 50+, divorced or otherwise single, with many unsuccessful relationships, resulting in children, noww grown, who do not give you the time of day. You relate to the OP and want to defend her as you would yourself. But you're a piecwe of poopy.

Wow, major fail on all points. But I do appreciate your unbridled hatred for an anonymous internet poster. Sort of like the hate you’re directing to OP on equally groundless “surmises.”

Get therapy.

I wrote the post you originally responded to. I didn’t write the second response.

Sounds like the only “fail” (are you 12?) here is you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Every adult has to own and fix their own sh*t regardless of how it came to be. It's helpful to share feelings with the parents so they understand their adult child and apologize for mistakes. The adult child has to heal themselves, no one can do it for them. It's easy to blame and direct anger at someone else, but it won't fix anything.[/quote]



Dp. But it sure was satisfying to ask my mom (when I was expecting my first child and felt such hope and love) "How would you describe your parenting style when I was a young kid? Seriously, wtf was that?!?!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Ok, consider OP’s son’s note more like an fyi. Now what?

For which one of them? I must say, I do not care much about the mom in this scenario. She was given the gift of a healthy boy, and she screwed him up with her crappy lifestyle, bad decisions and poor mental health. Good luck to her?

For the son, I hope he continues in therapy, limits his contact with his mom, learns as an adult the things he would have learned as a child in a healthy upbringing, and finds love and peace.

I’m sorry, posting error. I was responding to the person who responded to you that adults have to fix their own lives. Does anyone doubt that? But OP’s son gave her a chance for a closer relationship and she (and many posters) are just stuck in their emotional immaturity.

I doubt the intention was to have a closer relationship. More likely the intention was to deliver a sucker punch. After raising a challenging child, it feels like a thankless job. Parenting is tough and it never ends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

A poster who reads and understands other posts, and who doesn’t try to slap her own mommy issues on to them, obviously.

You're an idiot. You can make sentences, but not connections. You can express thoughts, but not ideas. You lack intuition. You lack intelligence. Plenty of profiles for you, but I will go with: Female, 50+, divorced or otherwise single, with many unsuccessful relationships, resulting in children, noww grown, who do not give you the time of day. You relate to the OP and want to defend her as you would yourself. But you're a piecwe of poopy.

Wow, major fail on all points. But I do appreciate your unbridled hatred for an anonymous internet poster. Sort of like the hate you’re directing to OP on equally groundless “surmises.”

Get therapy.

PS. I’m not the only poster pushing back on you. There are apparently several of us who think you’re a rage-fueled nutcase.

+100 OP is not your momma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Every adult has to own and fix their own sh*t regardless of how it came to be. It's helpful to share feelings with the parents so they understand their adult child and apologize for mistakes. The adult child has to heal themselves, no one can do it for them. It's easy to blame and direct anger at someone else, but it won't fix anything.[/quote]



Dp. But it sure was satisfying to ask my mom (when I was expecting my first child and felt such hope and love) "How would you describe your parenting style when I was a young kid? Seriously, wtf was that?!?!"

What did she say 'mommy dearest with a sprinkle of 'octomom'.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Ok, consider OP’s son’s note more like an fyi. Now what?

For which one of them? I must say, I do not care much about the mom in this scenario. She was given the gift of a healthy boy, and she screwed him up with her crappy lifestyle, bad decisions and poor mental health. Good luck to her?

For the son, I hope he continues in therapy, limits his contact with his mom, learns as an adult the things he would have learned as a child in a healthy upbringing, and finds love and peace.

I’m sorry, posting error. I was responding to the person who responded to you that adults have to fix their own lives. Does anyone doubt that? But OP’s son gave her a chance for a closer relationship and she (and many posters) are just stuck in their emotional immaturity.

I doubt the intention was to have a closer relationship. More likely the intention was to deliver a sucker punch. After raising a challenging child, it feels like a thankless job. Parenting is tough and it never ends.

NP. I agree but there is far from a consensus on this thread about that.

Also, I think an adult child can try to have a close relationship but also want to sucker punch. This is exactly what teens do. They want closeness but they also want independence and being mean is a way of doing that. It's highly immature and never appropriate, especially as you get older, but as parents we have to avoid getting defensive (even though it hurts) and look at the bigger picture. We set boundaries but we also see that if somebody is talking to us about things, that means they haven't written us off entirely. It's when somebody stops communicating that we know they aren't trying for a better relationship.

And yes in an adult child forum these are adults we are talking about, but remember that the brain doesn't actually fully mature until well after 18, and when it's your child it's good to give somebody an extra dose of patience and grace. As parents we are always the older ones, always the ones who are expected to be more mature, and we can set the example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure you were a good parent OP
Some kids are just duds unfortunately

Uhhh, how are you *sure* OP was a good parent? I believe she was a parent who tried hard, but the way she is insulting her son by pointing out the shortcomings he has had throughout his life (assuming I'm looking at the comments correctly) doesn't exactly scream "good parent" to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is in pain and he is expressing it and you want to make it go away with a quick "I'm sorry if I anything I did contributed to your unhappiness."

Obviously that is not going to be satisfying for your son! He doesn't want a throwaway non-apology, he wants you to listen and validate his feelings. Why not actually talk it through with him, admit that you made mistakes (specific, not a general "sorry if I made some mistakes") and explain why you did the things you did? Not to make it go away, but so he can see you that you actually care.

I don't think he has doubts that we care. I will admit somethings were mistakes, like homeschooling - it didn't work for him, he fought it. Other things like church were not a mistake even though he doesn't attend church now. The opportunity to go to college was not a mistake. He didn't like it and his grades weren’t good, but he had the chance to try it, but dropped out. Our marriage was challenging and I wish we hid it better from the kids. We did the best we knew at the time. If these are the worse things we did, we should be forgiven.

Let me spell this out for you. Your son grew up in an unstable, high-conflict household. On top of this, the two people in the dysfunctional, high-conflict marriage he was born into were also intensely controlling and gave him no opportunity to be exposed to a normal, non-dysfunctional environment (homeschooling, forcing a specific church on him).

And this is just from what you’ve told us.

Strongly suspect that your son was homeschooled for religious reasons. This feels so familiar- saying you know you weren’t perfect (but it wasn’t that bad), trying to explain everything away as him having been a challenging kid (and universally responding to it with an authoritarian style of parenting)… feels very old school evangelical and I’m not surprised that 1) your kid finally broke, and 2) you still can’t handle hearing- actually hearing- what he is telling you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

This is now a long thread but I thought OP came back and acknowledged homeschooling and her marriage were issues that affected her son negatively. And that she stood by college and religion?

OP here, we pushed DS to go to college because we hoped it would help him find a career path and also help him grow up vs living at home. DS went to the college but didn't go to classes or study so his grades were crap and had to leave. DS blames us to sending him to college but doesn't take responsibility for not going to class or studying. Now his college GPA is so low he feels like he can't enroll in college now if we wanted to. Not his fault, but ours.

After 18 we didn't force church on him, but did expect him to be a godly person in his behavior. He went a bit wild as a young adult.

Pp here. “Godly person”… lol I (and others that I’ve just seen) were spot on. Classic fundie. And for those of you who can’t see it, lucky you.

And fwiw, I’m Christian. Just not the kind that uses their God to justify emotionally immaturity and their rigid way of parenting.

[Anonymous]

If you comment on this thread please list how many kids you have raised. And their ages so we can understand your experience or lack of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

This is now a long thread but I thought OP came back and acknowledged homeschooling and her marriage were issues that affected her son negatively. And that she stood by college and religion?

OP here, we pushed DS to go to college because we hoped it would help him find a career path and also help him grow up vs living at home. DS went to the college but didn't go to classes or study so his grades were crap and had to leave. DS blames us to sending him to college but doesn't take responsibility for not going to class or studying. Now his college GPA is so low he feels like he can't enroll in college now if we wanted to. Not his fault, but ours.

After 18 we didn't force church on him, but did expect him to be a godly person in his behavior. He went a bit wild as a young adult.

Pp here. “Godly person”… lol I (and others that I’ve just seen) were spot on. Classic fundie. And for those of you who can’t see it, lucky you.

And fwiw, I’m Christian. Just not the kind that uses their God to justify emotionally immaturity and their rigid way of parenting.

As a Christian, do you consider yourself a Godly person, living your life according to Christian principles and keeping God central in your life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you comment on this thread please list how many kids you have raised. And their ages so we can understand your experience or lack of it.

You first. Please also note if your adult children are in any type of contact with you and if they come to you for support, guidance or advice. If they moved across the country or to another country, that is of interest, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

This is now a long thread but I thought OP came back and acknowledged homeschooling and her marriage were issues that affected her son negatively. And that she stood by college and religion?

OP here, we pushed DS to go to college because we hoped it would help him find a career path and also help him grow up vs living at home. DS went to the college but didn't go to classes or study so his grades were crap and had to leave. DS blames us to sending him to college but doesn't take responsibility for not going to class or studying. Now his college GPA is so low he feels like he can't enroll in college now if we wanted to. Not his fault, but ours.

After 18 we didn't force church on him, but did expect him to be a godly person in his behavior. He went a bit wild as a young adult.

Pp here. “Godly person”… lol I (and others that I’ve just seen) were spot on. Classic fundie. And for those of you who can’t see it, lucky you.

And fwiw, I’m Christian. Just not the kind that uses their God to justify emotionally immaturity and their rigid way of parenting.

As a Christian, do you consider yourself a Godly person, living your life according to Christian principles and keeping God central in your life?

Non Christian dp. The Christians I know don't make declarations about their godliness. They are simply good people who do good deeds for their family and community. Most of all, they do not judge.