What do you do when your adult child goes into therapy and lays blame at your feet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Ok, consider OP’s son’s note more like an fyi. Now what?

For which one of them? I must say, I do not care much about the mom in this scenario. She was given the gift of a healthy boy, and she screwed him up with her crappy lifestyle, bad decisions and poor mental health. Good luck to her?

For the son, I hope he continues in therapy, limits his contact with his mom, learns as an adult the things he would have learned as a child in a healthy upbringing, and finds love and peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Ok, consider OP’s son’s note more like an fyi. Now what?

For which one of them? I must say, I do not care much about the mom in this scenario. She was given the gift of a healthy boy, and she screwed him up with her crappy lifestyle, bad decisions and poor mental health. Good luck to her?

For the son, I hope he continues in therapy, limits his contact with his mom, learns as an adult the things he would have learned as a child in a healthy upbringing, and finds love and peace.

I’m sorry, posting error. I was responding to the person who responded to you that adults have to fix their own lives. Does anyone doubt that? But OP’s son gave her a chance for a closer relationship and she (and many posters) are just stuck in their emotional immaturity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Ok, consider OP’s son’s note more like an fyi. Now what?

For which one of them? I must say, I do not care much about the mom in this scenario. She was given the gift of a healthy boy, and she screwed him up with her crappy lifestyle, bad decisions and poor mental health. Good luck to her?

For the son, I hope he continues in therapy, limits his contact with his mom, learns as an adult the things he would have learned as a child in a healthy upbringing, and finds love and peace.

I’m sorry, posting error. I was responding to the person who responded to you that adults have to fix their own lives. Does anyone doubt that? But OP’s son gave her a chance for a closer relationship and she (and many posters) are just stuck in their emotional immaturity.

Absolutely 100.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So DS 30's has finally gone into therapy to work on himself, but now he is basically blaming me and my marriage problem/fighting, my religion that I forced on him, my homeschooling, my house rules, etc. All these things caused his mental problems and unhappiness according to his therapist. I have apologized if I contributed but there is not much to be done now. He wrote me a letter about it. It's depressing have all this blame hurled at me, I can't change the past and I wasn't a perfect parent - but we did our best and I thought he had a fairly happy childhood, much better than DH and I. I tried to give him the childhood I wanted as a kid. It's causing me to feel down. No one can hurt you like your kid.

If you don't accept responsibility, then you aren't really apologizing. You acknowledge that your marriage was high conflict, but refuse to take responsibility for protecting your child from it.

Where are you getting this? OP says nothing about how she responded to the letter and it’s not clear she’s even responded yet. I read “if I contributed” to mean “I apologized for the things under my control,” - it’s you putting a spin of “not my fault” on it.

m

Your reading is convoluted. “If” I contributed means the speaker does not agree that they contributed.

No it doesn’t. Only if you’re trying to take out your mommy/daddy issues on OP.

Yes, it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

A poster who reads and understands other posts, and who doesn’t try to slap her own mommy issues on to them, obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

You’re making a number of unsubstantiated assumptions about a mother and child you don’t know. Your profiling technique works…until it doesn’t because you actually have nothing from OP to slot into your boxes. This is pathological. I feel sorry for your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

A poster who reads and understands other posts, and who doesn’t try to slap her own mommy issues on to them, obviously.

You're an idiot. You can make sentences, but not connections. You can express thoughts, but not ideas. You lack intuition. You lack intelligence. Plenty of profiles for you, but I will go with: Female, 50+, divorced or otherwise single, with many unsuccessful relationships, resulting in children, noww grown, who do not give you the time of day. You relate to the OP and want to defend her as you would yourself. But you're a piecwe of poopy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

You’re making a number of unsubstantiated assumptions about a mother and child you don’t know. Your profiling technique works…until it doesn’t because you actually have nothing from OP to slot into your boxes. This is pathological. I feel sorry for your children.

Who gives? This is anonymous!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

A poster who reads and understands other posts, and who doesn’t try to slap her own mommy issues on to them, obviously.

You're an idiot. You can make sentences, but not connections. You can express thoughts, but not ideas. You lack intuition. You lack intelligence. Plenty of profiles for you, but I will go with: Female, 50+, divorced or otherwise single, with many unsuccessful relationships, resulting in children, noww grown, who do not give you the time of day. You relate to the OP and want to defend her as you would yourself. But you're a piecwe of poopy.

Wow, major fail on all points. But I do appreciate your unbridled hatred for an anonymous internet poster. Sort of like the hate you’re directing to OP on equally groundless “surmises.”

Get therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

A poster who reads and understands other posts, and who doesn’t try to slap her own mommy issues on to them, obviously.

You're an idiot. You can make sentences, but not connections. You can express thoughts, but not ideas. You lack intuition. You lack intelligence. Plenty of profiles for you, but I will go with: Female, 50+, divorced or otherwise single, with many unsuccessful relationships, resulting in children, noww grown, who do not give you the time of day. You relate to the OP and want to defend her as you would yourself. But you're a piecwe of poopy.

Wow, major fail on all points. But I do appreciate your unbridled hatred for an anonymous internet poster. Sort of like the hate you’re directing to OP on equally groundless “surmises.”

Get therapy.

PS. I’m not the only poster pushing back on you. There are apparently several of us who think you’re a rage-fueled nutcase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college is ok. Forcing your kid to go to college (or the college the parent wants, or major the parent wants) is not ok. From OP's post I can surmise that she didn't just "want" her son to go to college. Additional pressure/manipulation was involved.

Oh goody. Some rando with mommy/daddy issues “surmises” that OP “wanting” her kid to go to college (the horror!) translates to she “forced” him to go snd also imperiously dictated his major (despite the fact that the kid apparently dropped out with OP’s assent). And now rando has delivered her armchair diagnosis. How useful for the rest of us. Happy days.

Hey, I'm not the immediate PP, but another PP whose posts you don't like I wanted to try to explain this to you with an example from TV!! Let's say there's a serial murderer, and the FBI/police have developed a profile. They are able to develop the profile because they have studied previous serial murderers. They know that it's almost certainly a male. They know from the manner of the murders about his psychological traits and they may even be able to extrapolate from there what kind of job and education he has. Because of patterns of human behavior and other clues.

So, there are profiles of toxic mothers. They are not all 100% alike of course, but certain things set off alarm bells for those of us who have known one intimately: homeschooling (the better to be in control and hide the results!), inability to take responsibility/apologize, great concern for oneself over their own child's hurt, high-conflict marriages/relationships, fanatical religiousness, not treating the child like he's an actual separate person of his own, extremely controlling behavior.

Since you are illogical, I will add the unnecessary caveat that not all homeschoolers are abusers, not all religious people are horrible, not all selfish people rise to the level of narcissist, etc, etc, since I'm sure you'll try to make some kind of circular argument out of it. The point is, when you see a bunch of issues like these in a bundle, well, you probably have a toxic parent.

Your rebuttals are like, "but she didn't say she did that!" But she did say that the issue, such as religion, was among his complaints. First off, you can't trust the toxic parent's account at all, because they are self-serving liars. When one admits as much as this OP did, and get so many red-flag issues, well, I'd say it's a slam dunk.

We don't even have to prove what she did or did not do. It's enough to me to know the son is complaining about it, because look, kids who were raised with love and empathy, with mentally healthy parents, do not go blaming their parents for their problems. Those kids are too busy exploring their world happily and with success.

Kids who were raised by toxic parent(s) will struggle. And it really burns me up to hear, "Oh, well they are 18 or 30, so it's their problem!" The trauma/abuse of a toxic parent disables the kid from being a normal 18 year old, and they will be delayed by emotional problems, PTSD or whatever the case may be, possibly up to age 30 or beyond. Therapy is really their only hope.

Of course I don't know for certain about this OP. Who cares?? I'd much rather respond on the side of empathy for the adult child, who was a defenseless child for 18 years of his 30 year life.

Ok, consider OP’s son’s note more like an fyi. Now what?

For which one of them? I must say, I do not care much about the mom in this scenario. She was given the gift of a healthy boy, and she screwed him up with her crappy lifestyle, bad decisions and poor mental health. Good luck to her?

For the son, I hope he continues in therapy, limits his contact with his mom, learns as an adult the things he would have learned as a child in a healthy upbringing, and finds love and peace.

Is your favorite hobby engaging in casual cruelty and willful misinterpretation on anonymous internet boards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

A poster who reads and understands other posts, and who doesn’t try to slap her own mommy issues on to them, obviously.

You're an idiot. You can make sentences, but not connections. You can express thoughts, but not ideas. You lack intuition. You lack intelligence. Plenty of profiles for you, but I will go with: Female, 50+, divorced or otherwise single, with many unsuccessful relationships, resulting in children, noww grown, who do not give you the time of day. You relate to the OP and want to defend her as you would yourself. But you're a piecwe of poopy.

Wow, major fail on all points. But I do appreciate your unbridled hatred for an anonymous internet poster. Sort of like the hate you’re directing to OP on equally groundless “surmises.”

Get therapy.

Literally, who cares? We are anonymous here, and the point is that children
need protection moreso than internet moms complaining on boards that thei feelings are hurt that their kids complain they were horrible mothers. Hatred has nothing to do with it. I can't hate you, you are no one, who are you? I do not care. I would only just like you to think of someone other than yourself.

[Anonymous]

Btw, I am really sorry your children are so dissatisfied with you. Must be because you are such strong and healthy people!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

Op here, I will say that DH was my most challenging kid. He was headstrong and demanding from the time he was a baby. He was rarely content and cried a lot as a baby. He fought potty training and putting on clothes. I would dress him, he would take it off. If we wanted him do his chores, he would argue about why it was unfair or he shouldn't have to do it - for a much longer time than the chore would take. He dropped out of college and blamed us because shouldn't have made him go in the first place. This is his personality.

Right up until my mother died she would throw in my face how I cried a lot as a baby and never wanted her to rock me. As if I was being mean to her, as if I should apologize for how I was as a BABY and TODDLER. Please do not do this to your son.

This is all I needed to read to know that OP was the problem. My mother does the same thing to me. I was colicky. She brings it up 40 years later. Like I owe her an apology for my inability to control my crying and be content with her as a baby.

So, a homeschooling, religious fundie who was annoyed that her baby cried is now not pleased that the baby grew up and told her she sucked as a mom. Poor guy. I hope he marries someone who is a better wife/mother than OP.

DP. Where did you get all this cr@p? Your fevered imagination? OP never said she threw her DS’ stubbornness his face—that was a completely different poster who was talking about her own mother. OP hasn’t told us how she dealt with her stubborn DC. OP also never indicated that she’s a fundie—you made that up. People homeschool for many reasons—ask our our atheist homeschooling neighbors—and you have no clue how much religion played a part because OP hasn’t told us all her reasons. Maybe she lived in a bad school district.

Geez, get a grip. We get it, you’re an anti-religion bigot. Can you stop posting this now?

OP did say, right above, that she wanted DC to go to college and now he’s mad about that. You didn’t address that in your rant. So tell us, is wanting college for your kids really so bad?

Wanting college isn't so bad, but altogether the picture painted for me is that: This mother never considered any input from her son about his life. She prescribed homeschooling, religion and college and didn't budge when he didn't respond well to those. It paints a picture of a mother who didn't know or care to know who her child was, did not value his individuality, and instead just marched him on to meet her own goals, as if he were a product and not a person. This would be traumatizing.

How do you know her son made his schooling and religion wishes known when he was still young but she just steam-rolled over them? OP never said that. It sounds very much like his claims about schooling and religion are new to her. What OP actually said was that they argued about him wearing clothes and doing chores—are you claiming she should have backed down on either of these to respect his “individuality”? Again, you’re fantasizing to fit some bizarre personal narrative of your own.

It's not a bizarre personal narrative. It is a pattern that many of us here recognize from our own experiences. Do I know OP? No. Do I know that what she shared is the whole story or accurate? Of course not. But many, many of the details are consistent with the idea that she's got some kind of personality disorder and that she mistreated or abused her son.

I share my take on the story because I have relevant experience, and even if my experience isn't close to what happened in OP's house, it's definitely going to be close to what happened in another poster's house. Therefore, it's relevant and will possibly resonate and help someone else.

Not just me but others picked up on:
The mother's inability to apologize unequivocally
The mother's criticism of the boy for having been a difficult baby/child
The mother's greater concern for her own discomfort, at having been confronted, than with the well being of her son

These are HALLMARKS of an abusive borderline or narcissistic parent.

I wonder why you're so invested in defending the mother. She's merely suffering some discomfort from being confronted. The son's problems, if I am right, are much worse.

Since you’re using caps: OP NEVER said she criticized her son for being difficult. That was ANOTHER POSTER who was talking about her own mom criticizing her. This was already pointed out to you. Go back and read the thread. Or are you just trolling? Geez.

I had a sometimes abusive mom. And yet I can stand back and not try to shoehorn this thread into my own experiences and prejudices, especially when OP’s given us nothing to justify that. You’re the narcissist, making armchair diagnoses based on nothing else but, apparently, your own strong dislike of religion, homeschooling, and kids wearing clothes and doing chores. Sit down.

No one has to “sit down” because you tell them to. Who the hell do you think you are?

A poster who reads and understands other posts, and who doesn’t try to slap her own mommy issues on to them, obviously.

You're an idiot. You can make sentences, but not connections. You can express thoughts, but not ideas. You lack intuition. You lack intelligence. Plenty of profiles for you, but I will go with: Female, 50+, divorced or otherwise single, with many unsuccessful relationships, resulting in children, noww grown, who do not give you the time of day. You relate to the OP and want to defend her as you would yourself. But you're a piecwe of poopy.

Not PP, but looks like you are projecting your mother on every other post in this thread. I hope you can solve your issues and find peace.