What is the End Game in Ukraine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s time to push in to Russia itself.

No one wants that, but Putin and the FSB have long been obsessed with the idea that the West wants to invade or at least topple the regime and control the next leader. It's the entire reason why Putin and the ultranationalists want a Greater Russia, to defend itself against the West. Which from their point of view makes total sense. I'm sure a CIA unit is tasked with making contacts with political opponents and fundraising opposition movements and activitists. But it might pain them to know that Russia is not *that* high on any country's list that they'd want to actively take on a managerial role in its affairs. We're more concerned with China.

I think it is unquestionable that the "West" would very much prefer to have Russia led by a West-approved, compliant leader a la Zelensky.

Inasmuch as past history is the best indicator of future performance, it's also not unreasonable to have concerns about the West-driven regime change - certainly the West has not shied away from replacing leaders it doesn't like by force, invasions, funding the opposition, meddling in elections, or, in cases where this doesn't work, economic warfare. You cannot possibly argue that hasn't happened.

I'm not disputing that it would be mice to have a democratic Russia.

But Putin and allies believe there is an intense effort underway to fund opposition parties and effect regime change, and there simply isn't, because we don't care that much. Every nation spies on every other nation. The EU countries and the USA desultorily helps opposition parties of autocracies around the world and monitors regime weaknesses, etc, but the fact of the matter is that Russia is not all that. Not worth our time and money. Putin is obsessed over figments of his imagination, as usual.

Really? Like it helped the Bahrain uprising asking for more representation in the government? By helping to put it down with Saudi troops and American weapons? Was American meddling in LAC also a figment of someone's imagination? Stop lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

Well since the US government also included far right pro Nazi groups as of 2020, and still have a large contingent of far right Republican supporters, I guess we can't throw stones at this anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
10:25 again.

And there are neo-Nazi factions everywhere in Europe, and particularly so in Eastern Europe. No disputes there either.

But just like MAGAs are not America, Ukrainian neo-Nazis are not Ukraine.

I don't think you, or any other person solo, can say what America is. America is many things, and a far-right religious fundamentalist person voting MAGA in Texas is every bit as American as a Lululemon-clad lefty UMC woman in Whole Foods. I get that you think your claim on American-ness is legit and hers isn't, but you are both American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

No, we haven't forgotten. Here's a good article on it: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 However, Ukraine is trying to protect its right to self-determination and from unprovoked attacks by Russia. I'm sure if they win, then the U.S. and other countries that have influence will continue to press on eradicating its neo-Nazi problem. So, while we're on the subject, what you Trumpers doing about your own Nazi problem? You know, "very fine people on both sides" and all?

LOL the West respects the right to self-determine but only from the right people.

If anyone thinks they are going to "self determine" their way into the us capital and is presidency without actually winning a national election with enough votes, they are going to be disappointed.

I mean I dunno. Can Palestinians self-determine? Can South Sudan? Can Eastern Ukraine? Can the Shia Crescent? Why is some people's will toward independence celebrated and some people's suppressed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
10:25 again.

And there are neo-Nazi factions everywhere in Europe, and particularly so in Eastern Europe. No disputes there either.

But just like MAGAs are not America, Ukrainian neo-Nazis are not Ukraine.

I don't think you, or any other person solo, can say what America is. America is many things, and a far-right religious fundamentalist person voting MAGA in Texas is every bit as American as a Lululemon-clad lefty UMC woman in Whole Foods. I get that you think your claim on American-ness is legit and hers isn't, but you are both American.

Overturning election results is illegal and un american.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
10:25 again.

And there are neo-Nazi factions everywhere in Europe, and particularly so in Eastern Europe. No disputes there either.

But just like MAGAs are not America, Ukrainian neo-Nazis are not Ukraine.

I don't think you, or any other person solo, can say what America is. America is many things, and a far-right religious fundamentalist person voting MAGA in Texas is every bit as American as a Lululemon-clad lefty UMC woman in Whole Foods. I get that you think your claim on American-ness is legit and hers isn't, but you are both American.

Overturning election results is illegal and un american.

That's not what pains you; what pains you is that a large swath of America does not support your vision of what America ought to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

No, we haven't forgotten. Here's a good article on it: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 However, Ukraine is trying to protect its right to self-determination and from unprovoked attacks by Russia. I'm sure if they win, then the U.S. and other countries that have influence will continue to press on eradicating its neo-Nazi problem. So, while we're on the subject, what you Trumpers doing about your own Nazi problem? You know, "very fine people on both sides" and all?

LOL the West respects the right to self-determine but only from the right people.

If anyone thinks they are going to "self determine" their way into the us capital and is presidency without actually winning a national election with enough votes, they are going to be disappointed.

I mean I dunno. Can Palestinians self-determine? Can South Sudan? Can Eastern Ukraine? Can the Shia Crescent? Why is some people's will toward independence celebrated and some people's suppressed?

Awwwww. Did your candidate lose and now you are "suppressed". You poor poor thing lost an election.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
10:25 again.

And there are neo-Nazi factions everywhere in Europe, and particularly so in Eastern Europe. No disputes there either.

But just like MAGAs are not America, Ukrainian neo-Nazis are not Ukraine.

I don't think you, or any other person solo, can say what America is. America is many things, and a far-right religious fundamentalist person voting MAGA in Texas is every bit as American as a Lululemon-clad lefty UMC woman in Whole Foods. I get that you think your claim on American-ness is legit and hers isn't, but you are both American.

Overturning election results is illegal and un american.

That's not what pains you; what pains you is that a large swath of America does not support your vision of what America ought to be.

I am fine with that. We settle our differences at the ballot box. I did not support trump in 2016 but I accepted the result instead of beating the crap out of some coo with a flag pole.

[Anonymous]

Cop*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

No, we haven't forgotten. Here's a good article on it: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 However, Ukraine is trying to protect its right to self-determination and from unprovoked attacks by Russia. I'm sure if they win, then the U.S. and other countries that have influence will continue to press on eradicating its neo-Nazi problem. So, while we're on the subject, what you Trumpers doing about your own Nazi problem? You know, "very fine people on both sides" and all?

LOL the West respects the right to self-determine but only from the WHITE people.

fify

If anyone thinks they are going to "self determine" their way into the us capital and is presidency without actually winning a national election with enough votes, they are going to be disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

No, we haven't forgotten. Here's a good article on it: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 However, Ukraine is trying to protect its right to self-determination and from unprovoked attacks by Russia. I'm sure if they win, then the U.S. and other countries that have influence will continue to press on eradicating its neo-Nazi problem. So, while we're on the subject, what you Trumpers doing about your own Nazi problem? You know, "very fine people on both sides" and all?

LOL the West respects the right to self-determine but only from the right people.

If anyone thinks they are going to "self determine" their way into the us capital and is presidency without actually winning a national election with enough votes, they are going to be disappointed.

I mean I dunno. Can Palestinians self-determine? Can South Sudan? Can Eastern Ukraine? Can the Shia Crescent? Why is some people's will toward independence celebrated and some people's suppressed?

Awwwww. Did your candidate lose and now you are "suppressed". You poor poor thing lost an election.

I don't have a candidate.

Do you deny that the US suppresses "some" pro-independence movements globally and supports others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
10:25 again.

And there are neo-Nazi factions everywhere in Europe, and particularly so in Eastern Europe. No disputes there either.

But just like MAGAs are not America, Ukrainian neo-Nazis are not Ukraine.

I don't think you, or any other person solo, can say what America is. America is many things, and a far-right religious fundamentalist person voting MAGA in Texas is every bit as American as a Lululemon-clad lefty UMC woman in Whole Foods. I get that you think your claim on American-ness is legit and hers isn't, but you are both American.

Overturning election results is illegal and un american.

That's not what pains you; what pains you is that a large swath of America does not support your vision of what America ought to be.

I am fine with that. We settle our differences at the ballot box. I did not support trump in 2016 but I accepted the result instead of beating the crap out of some coo with a flag pole.

You make it sound like everyone who voted differently was beating the crap out of cops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

No, we haven't forgotten. Here's a good article on it: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 However, Ukraine is trying to protect its right to self-determination and from unprovoked attacks by Russia. I'm sure if they win, then the U.S. and other countries that have influence will continue to press on eradicating its neo-Nazi problem. So, while we're on the subject, what you Trumpers doing about your own Nazi problem? You know, "very fine people on both sides" and all?

LOL the West respects the right to self-determine but only from the right people.

If anyone thinks they are going to "self determine" their way into the us capital and is presidency without actually winning a national election with enough votes, they are going to be disappointed.

I mean I dunno. Can Palestinians self-determine? Can South Sudan? Can Eastern Ukraine? Can the Shia Crescent? Why is some people's will toward independence celebrated and some people's suppressed?

Awwwww. Did your candidate lose and now you are "suppressed". You poor poor thing lost an election.

I don't have a candidate.

Do you deny that the US suppresses "some" pro-independence movements globally and supports others?

You should get one and support their position by voting. We will never all agree. In this country, we have decided to settle those disagreements by supporting the candidates that represent our views. You win some and lose some. Deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

No, we haven't forgotten. Here's a good article on it: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 However, Ukraine is trying to protect its right to self-determination and from unprovoked attacks by Russia. I'm sure if they win, then the U.S. and other countries that have influence will continue to press on eradicating its neo-Nazi problem. So, while we're on the subject, what you Trumpers doing about your own Nazi problem? You know, "very fine people on both sides" and all?

LOL the West respects the right to self-determine but only from the right people.

If anyone thinks they are going to "self determine" their way into the us capital and is presidency without actually winning a national election with enough votes, they are going to be disappointed.

I mean I dunno. Can Palestinians self-determine? Can South Sudan? Can Eastern Ukraine? Can the Shia Crescent? Why is some people's will toward independence celebrated and some people's suppressed?

Awwwww. Did your candidate lose and now you are "suppressed". You poor poor thing lost an election.

I don't have a candidate.

Do you deny that the US suppresses "some" pro-independence movements globally and supports others?

You should get one and support their position by voting. We will never all agree. In this country, we have decided to settle those disagreements by supporting the candidates that represent our views. You win some and lose some. Deal with it.

I don't have a problem with that - but what does that have to do with the topic of the thread? I feel like you're arguing things that everyone generally accepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
10:25 again.

And there are neo-Nazi factions everywhere in Europe, and particularly so in Eastern Europe. No disputes there either.

But just like MAGAs are not America, Ukrainian neo-Nazis are not Ukraine.

I don't think you, or any other person solo, can say what America is. America is many things, and a far-right religious fundamentalist person voting MAGA in Texas is every bit as American as a Lululemon-clad lefty UMC woman in Whole Foods. I get that you think your claim on American-ness is legit and hers isn't, but you are both American.

Overturning election results is illegal and un american.

That's not what pains you; what pains you is that a large swath of America does not support your vision of what America ought to be.

I am fine with that. We settle our differences at the ballot box. I did not support trump in 2016 but I accepted the result instead of beating the crap out of some coo with a flag pole.

You make it sound like everyone who voted differently was beating the crap out of cops.

It's a dramatic substitution for being an election denier. Just use election denier if you did not grasp that.