What is the End Game in Ukraine?

[Anonymous]

I should preface this by saying that I'm not a pro-Russian troll. The invasion of Ukraine is both unprovoked and has led to an unending stream of Russian atrocities. I would love to see Russia pushed out of both Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

But I'm getting confused about Ukraine's prognosis and our own objectives. Ukraine has failed to reclaim any significant territory since Kharkiv in the Spring. They lack the manpower to conduct the urban warfare required to push Russia from its defensive positions. From everything I've read the HIMARS long-range missiles donated by the US, while allowing spectacular strikes behind Russian lines, are not likely to substantially affect Russia's long-term defensive capabilities. So we have a long-term (maybe permanent) stalemate. Except it's only a stalemate because of constant infusions of weapons from NATO countries.

So are you supportive of a permanent lien on the US military budget to keep the war as a stalemate? Is that even a moral choice, given the civilian destruction that will result? Should we be pressing instead for some negotiated swap of territory for peace? Or is it better to keep on present course, checkmating Russia by proxy even at a cost to Ukraine's civilian population and military?

[Anonymous]

I support not capitulating to Russia, because that would only encourage them to keep doing this to other countries. I don’t think we should use Ukraine as a tool for that so if at some point they did not want to keep fighting, I would respect that. But as long as Ukraine wants to keep going, I think we should support them.

[Anonymous]

Oh, please. You had me going for a brief moment, but as soon as you expfess concern for further civilian casualties as a result of continuing the war, your claims of not being pro-Russian ring hollow.

[Anonymous]

Nice try, pro-Kremlin parrot.

[Anonymous]

You can’t let bullies take what they want or else they will never stop. That’s the fundamental truth at play here.

[Anonymous]

Edngame? Get Russia out of a sovereign country, including Crimea.

[Anonymous]

The endgame is for Putin to take his toys and go home for a timeout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Edngame? Get Russia out of a sovereign country, including Crimea.

OP here. If there was the slimmest evidence that Ukraine was capable of pushing out Russia I’d be more optimistic.
And yes I was expecting the “pro Russia shill” comments. It’s the kind of lazy thinking that lets us sleepwalk into foreign policy quagmires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Edngame? Get Russia out of a sovereign country, including Crimea.

OP here. If there was the slimmest evidence that Ukraine was capable of pushing out Russia I’d be more optimistic.
And yes I was expecting the “pro Russia shill” comments. It’s the kind of lazy thinking that lets us sleepwalk into foreign policy quagmires.

You mean, you foresaw that people would call you a "pro Russia shill" after you parroted pro-Russian propaganda? Wow, you must be psychic!

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I should preface this by saying that I'm not a pro-Russian troll. The invasion of Ukraine is both unprovoked and has led to an unending stream of Russian atrocities. I would love to see Russia pushed out of both Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

But I'm getting confused about Ukraine's prognosis and our own objectives. Ukraine has failed to reclaim any significant territory since Kharkiv in the Spring. They lack the manpower to conduct the urban warfare required to push Russia from its defensive positions. From everything I've read the HIMARS long-range missiles donated by the US, while allowing spectacular strikes behind Russian lines, are not likely to substantially affect Russia's long-term defensive capabilities. So we have a long-term (maybe permanent) stalemate. Except it's only a stalemate because of constant infusions of weapons from NATO countries.

So are you supportive of a permanent lien on the US military budget to keep the war as a stalemate? Is that even a moral choice, given the civilian destruction that will result? Should we be pressing instead for some negotiated swap of territory for peace? Or is it better to keep on present course, checkmating Russia by proxy even at a cost to Ukraine's civilian population and military?

Would you believe that a bunch of ragtag villagers could push the great Soviet military out of Afghanistan (and that the same group could later do the same to the US)? Wars don't play out in reality the way they do on TV. Six months is not a long time.

[Anonymous]

I think the dismissal of OPs concerns is a bit callous from people on the other side of the ocean from the war itself.
There absolutely should be a conversation on the "end game", but it really should be led by our European allies, specifically Poland/Baltic countries/Finland as they are likely next on Putin's hit list (Kaliningrad/Koningsbeg exclave access and "reclaiming of former territory").
I dont know the answer to this, since I completely agree with the viewpoint of not letting a bully run amock but war of attrition is not a sustainable choice regardless of NATO's willingness to supply endless weapons.

[Anonymous]

Russia needs to surrender and retreat. They have treated their own military very badly during this war. It would be a shame if that were continue in perpetuity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Russia needs to surrender and retreat. They have treated their own military very badly during this war. It would be a shame if that were continue in perpetuity.

“They need to” but they won’t. Russia isn’t running out of petroleum-income, troops, or artillery. How do you make them withdraw?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia needs to surrender and retreat. They have treated their own military very badly during this war. It would be a shame if that were continue in perpetuity.

“They need to” but they won’t. Russia isn’t running out of petroleum-income, troops, or artillery. How do you make them withdraw?

Let them continue to abuse their own troops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I should preface this by saying that I'm not a pro-Russian troll. The invasion of Ukraine is both unprovoked and has led to an unending stream of Russian atrocities. I would love to see Russia pushed out of both Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

But I'm getting confused about Ukraine's prognosis and our own objectives. Ukraine has failed to reclaim any significant territory since Kharkiv in the Spring. They lack the manpower to conduct the urban warfare required to push Russia from its defensive positions. From everything I've read the HIMARS long-range missiles donated by the US, while allowing spectacular strikes behind Russian lines, are not likely to substantially affect Russia's long-term defensive capabilities. So we have a long-term (maybe permanent) stalemate. Except it's only a stalemate because of constant infusions of weapons from NATO countries.

So are you supportive of a permanent lien on the US military budget to keep the war as a stalemate? Is that even a moral choice, given the civilian destruction that will result? Should we be pressing instead for some negotiated swap of territory for peace? Or is it better to keep on present course, checkmating Russia by proxy even at a cost to Ukraine's civilian population and military?

For not being a Russian troll you seem to be repeating the Russia disinformation You do not seem to understand military operations, how the DOD budget works and what is happening in the Ukraine other then what is put out by Russian propaganda.

Ukraine does not lack man power but the Russians do. Russia is huge country and its military not deployed in the Ukraine have been stripped to the bone- equipment and man power. Those units are at 40-50% combat efficiency. Ukraine is now in the process of systematically destroying supply routs and depots in sectors that they will retake before the fall. They have been so successful that Russia can only mount company size actions. The Black Sea fleet(the pride of the Russia navy) hides on the other side of the Black Sea. The Russians Airforce can only operate in Russian territory unable to support it land forces. Ukraine has developed and deployed long range drones and missiles. There have been many attacks against Russian in Georgia and Chechnya. Russia does not have the capability to sustain this level of active and is facing increase “terrorist” threats at home.