What is the End Game in Ukraine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ And Putin is just executing the playbook, line-by-line, announcing every step. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't realize that the current U.S. policymakers were too stupid and didn't read the Soviet doctrine military manuals.

That's what you get for hiring flower children who do well at Happy Hour instead of professionally-trained experts.

Lol. The Russian army was about to collapse. The contract army was about to go home. Mobilization forces them to stay while the sham referendums allow conscripts to be sent to Ukraine. They're just desperately trying to hold on. It's all short term thinking. Just trying to survive until Spring at this point. One last chance at hoping the energy blackmail will cause Europe to split.

Correct.

I, a pro-Ukrainian French person, have every sympathy for the Russian people, and do think we need to offer humanitarian visas. They already protested the war in the Spring, and got beaten up, threatened, put in jail and fined. But as usual, it's the poor people who will suffer: the ones who cannot afford plane tickets, who don't have cars to leave the country. Dozens of thousands of Russian men will die for a delusional war they didn't want for a leader they never liked. Just because their suffering pales in comparison with what the Ukrainian people is collectively suffering, it doesn't mean they deserve it.

Putin should be tried for a genocidal war against Ukraine AND putting his own people in grave physical and economic jeopardy.

NATO should fund some huge camps in western Ukraine and then advertise that any Russians of fighting age will be given safe haven to come stay at the camps if they don't want to fight. Offer the same for any Russian soldiers who want to surrender. Putin will be out of men very quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ And Putin is just executing the playbook, line-by-line, announcing every step. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't realize that the current U.S. policymakers were too stupid and didn't read the Soviet doctrine military manuals.

That's what you get for hiring flower children who do well at Happy Hour instead of professionally-trained experts.

You really think the US and European governments don't know all this, after everything we did during the Cold War? You're very strange.

Please understand that what goes on inside the Oval Office with DoD and CIA will NOT be splashed on the news. Governments always project calm. They distract. Biden is not going on the news to tell you that Putin is about to launch a nuclear war. Governments are making plans in secret.

Now if you want to explain to the average clueless civilian, sure. But don't claim that government officials are not preparing for every scenario. Because they are.

the poster above must be stuck in the Trump era, when important international events related to the president were discussed first among guests at the dinner table at Mar A Lago, when the president let slip an ally's secrets while chatting with the Russian ambassador in the Oval Room or generally ran foreign policy on Twitter. Plus saying that our policy makers are stupid while Putin is so bright, yes sure, see where he was in January and when he is now and he does not look that bright to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ And Putin is just executing the playbook, line-by-line, announcing every step. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't realize that the current U.S. policymakers were too stupid and didn't read the Soviet doctrine military manuals.

That's what you get for hiring flower children who do well at Happy Hour instead of professionally-trained experts.

You really think the US and European governments don't know all this, after everything we did during the Cold War? You're very strange.

Please understand that what goes on inside the Oval Office with DoD and CIA will NOT be splashed on the news. Governments always project calm. They distract. Biden is not going on the news to tell you that Putin is about to launch a nuclear war. Governments are making plans in secret.

Now if you want to explain to the average clueless civilian, sure. But don't claim that government officials are not preparing for every scenario. Because they are.

the poster above must be stuck in the Trump era, when important international events related to the president were discussed first among guests at the dinner table at Mar A Lago, when the president let slip an ally's secrets while chatting with the Russian ambassador in the Oval Room or generally ran foreign policy on Twitter. Plus saying that our policy makers are stupid while Putin is so bright, yes sure, see where he was in January and when he is now and he does not look that bright to me

forgot to add a +1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ And Putin is just executing the playbook, line-by-line, announcing every step. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't realize that the current U.S. policymakers were too stupid and didn't read the Soviet doctrine military manuals.

That's what you get for hiring flower children who do well at Happy Hour instead of professionally-trained experts.

Lol. The Russian army was about to collapse. The contract army was about to go home. Mobilization forces them to stay while the sham referendums allow conscripts to be sent to Ukraine. They're just desperately trying to hold on. It's all short term thinking. Just trying to survive until Spring at this point. One last chance at hoping the energy blackmail will cause Europe to split.

Correct.

I, a pro-Ukrainian French person, have every sympathy for the Russian people, and do think we need to offer humanitarian visas. They already protested the war in the Spring, and got beaten up, threatened, put in jail and fined. But as usual, it's the poor people who will suffer: the ones who cannot afford plane tickets, who don't have cars to leave the country. Dozens of thousands of Russian men will die for a delusional war they didn't want for a leader they never liked. Just because their suffering pales in comparison with what the Ukrainian people is collectively suffering, it doesn't mean they deserve it.

Putin should be tried for a genocidal war against Ukraine AND putting his own people in grave physical and economic jeopardy.

NATO should fund some huge camps in western Ukraine and then advertise that any Russians of fighting age will be given safe haven to come stay at the camps if they don't want to fight. Offer the same for any Russian soldiers who want to surrender. Putin will be out of men very quickly.

These are not going to be highly trained war fighters. It’s not in Ukraine’s interests to permanently resettle Russian nationals. Anyone who deserts better not make plans to return to Russia. They’ll meet the same fate as those under Stalin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ And Putin is just executing the playbook, line-by-line, announcing every step. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't realize that the current U.S. policymakers were too stupid and didn't read the Soviet doctrine military manuals.

That's what you get for hiring flower children who do well at Happy Hour instead of professionally-trained experts.

Lol. The Russian army was about to collapse. The contract army was about to go home. Mobilization forces them to stay while the sham referendums allow conscripts to be sent to Ukraine. They're just desperately trying to hold on. It's all short term thinking. Just trying to survive until Spring at this point. One last chance at hoping the energy blackmail will cause Europe to split.

Correct.

I, a pro-Ukrainian French person, have every sympathy for the Russian people, and do think we need to offer humanitarian visas. They already protested the war in the Spring, and got beaten up, threatened, put in jail and fined. But as usual, it's the poor people who will suffer: the ones who cannot afford plane tickets, who don't have cars to leave the country. Dozens of thousands of Russian men will die for a delusional war they didn't want for a leader they never liked. Just because their suffering pales in comparison with what the Ukrainian people is collectively suffering, it doesn't mean they deserve it.

Putin should be tried for a genocidal war against Ukraine AND putting his own people in grave physical and economic jeopardy.

NATO should fund some huge camps in western Ukraine and then advertise that any Russians of fighting age will be given safe haven to come stay at the camps if they don't want to fight. Offer the same for any Russian soldiers who want to surrender. Putin will be out of men very quickly.

These are not going to be highly trained war fighters. It’s not in Ukraine’s interests to permanently resettle Russian nationals. Anyone who deserts better not make plans to return to Russia. They’ll meet the same fate as those under Stalin.

Putin is done. As soon as he is gone everyone will be able to come back. Stalin would kill returning POWs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ And Putin is just executing the playbook, line-by-line, announcing every step. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't realize that the current U.S. policymakers were too stupid and didn't read the Soviet doctrine military manuals.

That's what you get for hiring flower children who do well at Happy Hour instead of professionally-trained experts.

Lol. The Russian army was about to collapse. The contract army was about to go home. Mobilization forces them to stay while the sham referendums allow conscripts to be sent to Ukraine. They're just desperately trying to hold on. It's all short term thinking. Just trying to survive until Spring at this point. One last chance at hoping the energy blackmail will cause Europe to split.

Correct.

I, a pro-Ukrainian French person, have every sympathy for the Russian people, and do think we need to offer humanitarian visas. They already protested the war in the Spring, and got beaten up, threatened, put in jail and fined. But as usual, it's the poor people who will suffer: the ones who cannot afford plane tickets, who don't have cars to leave the country. Dozens of thousands of Russian men will die for a delusional war they didn't want for a leader they never liked. Just because their suffering pales in comparison with what the Ukrainian people is collectively suffering, it doesn't mean they deserve it.

Putin should be tried for a genocidal war against Ukraine AND putting his own people in grave physical and economic jeopardy.

You have sympathy for the Russians because you don’t talk with people who live there. I talk with them daily because I have plenty of friends and relatives in both Ukraine and Russia. Most of those who are still in Russia are brainwashed, support their “special military operation” and are happy that Ukrainians are being killed. My friend’s husband is subject to the second wave of mobilization, and I asked her if they consider leaving the country. She said no way, he’ll join the army if ordered and their sons will too. Her husband’s parents live in a Ukrainian city that’s being bombed by the Russians every day. And he is ready to come and help to bomb the city where his parents live and where he was born and raised. I have no hope and sympathy for those who are still in Russia and would fully support if the US could kill their entire government and media propagandists. All my sympathy is with Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

I think it is so important that we fund this war for many, many years, such that not one inch of Ukrainian territory (including disputed areas and Crimea) remains under the control or influence of Russia.

Then, we will need a five trillion aid package to begin the process of rebuilding Ukraine.

It’s important that we don’t platform MAGA voices that try to talk about American interests and American long term goals. Ultimately we need to jail Trump like Zelensky or Putin would do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is so important that we fund this war for many, many years, such that not one inch of Ukrainian territory (including disputed areas and Crimea) remains under the control or influence of Russia.

Then, we will need a five trillion aid package to begin the process of rebuilding Ukraine.

It’s important that we don’t platform MAGA voices that try to talk about American interests and American long term goals. Ultimately we need to jail Trump like Zelensky or Putin would do.

What happens if Trump wins the election in 2024? Would he immediately withdraw all support for the Ukraine and pull the United States out of NATO? I think the answer is clearly yes. Putin will move heaven and earth to get Trump elected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is so important that we fund this war for many, many years, such that not one inch of Ukrainian territory (including disputed areas and Crimea) remains under the control or influence of Russia.

Then, we will need a five trillion aid package to begin the process of rebuilding Ukraine.

It’s important that we don’t platform MAGA voices that try to talk about American interests and American long term goals. Ultimately we need to jail Trump like Zelensky or Putin would do.

What happens if Trump wins the election in 2024? Would he immediately withdraw all support for the Ukraine and pull the United States out of NATO? I think the answer is clearly yes. Putin will move heaven and earth to get Trump elected.

Garland needs to jail Trump; he must continue to be censored from social media, so his unAmerican voice is not heard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is so important that we fund this war for many, many years, such that not one inch of Ukrainian territory (including disputed areas and Crimea) remains under the control or influence of Russia.

Then, we will need a five trillion aid package to begin the process of rebuilding Ukraine.

It’s important that we don’t platform MAGA voices that try to talk about American interests and American long term goals. Ultimately we need to jail Trump like Zelensky or Putin would do.

What happens if Trump wins the election in 2024? Would he immediately withdraw all support for the Ukraine and pull the United States out of NATO? I think the answer is clearly yes. Putin will move heaven and earth to get Trump elected.

Garland needs to jail Trump; he must continue to be censored from social media, so his unAmerican voice is not heard.

He's not being censored and he is subject to the same due process as every other American. No more no less. Take your games somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Russian troops have raped and tortured children in Ukraine, carried out a “large number” of executions and committed other war crimes, according to a United Nations investigation by legal experts.

Set up by the U.N. to probe the conduct of the war, the Independent International Commission of Inquiry reported its chilling findings Friday in Geneva, describing a long list of abuses and atrocities in four regions.

“Based on the evidence gathered by the commission, it has concluded that war crimes have been committed in Ukraine,” Erik Mose, the chairman of the three-member commission, told the U.N. Human Rights Council.

Mose, a Norwegian judge, said the commission has documented cases in which children have been "raped, tortured and unlawfully confined."

“There are examples of cases where relatives were forced to witness the crimes," he added. "In the cases we have investigated, the age of victims of sexual and gendered-based violence ranged from 4 to 82 years."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tortured-children-ukraine-un-panel-says-rcna49168

What the f? Burn Russia to the ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ And Putin is just executing the playbook, line-by-line, announcing every step. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't realize that the current U.S. policymakers were too stupid and didn't read the Soviet doctrine military manuals.

That's what you get for hiring flower children who do well at Happy Hour instead of professionally-trained experts.

Lol. The Russian army was about to collapse. The contract army was about to go home. Mobilization forces them to stay while the sham referendums allow conscripts to be sent to Ukraine. They're just desperately trying to hold on. It's all short term thinking. Just trying to survive until Spring at this point. One last chance at hoping the energy blackmail will cause Europe to split.

Correct.

I, a pro-Ukrainian French person, have every sympathy for the Russian people, and do think we need to offer humanitarian visas. They already protested the war in the Spring, and got beaten up, threatened, put in jail and fined. But as usual, it's the poor people who will suffer: the ones who cannot afford plane tickets, who don't have cars to leave the country. Dozens of thousands of Russian men will die for a delusional war they didn't want for a leader they never liked. Just because their suffering pales in comparison with what the Ukrainian people is collectively suffering, it doesn't mean they deserve it.

Putin should be tried for a genocidal war against Ukraine AND putting his own people in grave physical and economic jeopardy.

You have sympathy for the Russians because you don’t talk with people who live there. I talk with them daily because I have plenty of friends and relatives in both Ukraine and Russia. Most of those who are still in Russia are brainwashed, support their “special military operation” and are happy that Ukrainians are being killed. My friend’s husband is subject to the second wave of mobilization, and I asked her if they consider leaving the country. She said no way, he’ll join the army if ordered and their sons will too. Her husband’s parents live in a Ukrainian city that’s being bombed by the Russians every day. And he is ready to come and help to bomb the city where his parents live and where he was born and raised. I have no hope and sympathy for those who are still in Russia and would fully support if the US could kill their entire government and media propagandists. All my sympathy is with Ukraine.

+1. The strategy needs to place more pressure on the Russian Government internally. Shut down all borders to the West. Repatriate current Russian Refugees. Deny all visa travel to/from Russia so that even the party officials can't get their own children out. Russian refugees, knowing that they are labeled vyrus or nerus will not be keen on falling in line. I would make it clear that the ONLY way out of Russia is to go ahead and mobilize, then take your chances by immediately surrendering to Ukrainian forces. I would also offer defection incentives (ex. if you provide information or equipment to Ukraine, you'll get a monetary bonus). This should further demoralize the Russian armed forces, and reduce their effectiveness (can you trust any mobilized person?), and encourage mobilized Russians to disobey the orders of their superiors.

Remember that Putin could, in theory, start a nuclear war at any time. It is more difficult to do the more Russian internal infrastructure and military is bogged down. This is the only way I see that keeps Russia off balance - to water down the current propaganda by flooding in information from the outside world gathered by Russian refugees.

This may seem cruel to the refugees, but you need to understand that if you let all protesters out of Russia, you're doing Putin a favor my making it easier to enact the mobilization and wage war. This will help Russia to take control of its own destiny and chart a new path forward - by having the "rational" people back inside their own country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ And Putin is just executing the playbook, line-by-line, announcing every step. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't realize that the current U.S. policymakers were too stupid and didn't read the Soviet doctrine military manuals.

That's what you get for hiring flower children who do well at Happy Hour instead of professionally-trained experts.

Lol. The Russian army was about to collapse. The contract army was about to go home. Mobilization forces them to stay while the sham referendums allow conscripts to be sent to Ukraine. They're just desperately trying to hold on. It's all short term thinking. Just trying to survive until Spring at this point. One last chance at hoping the energy blackmail will cause Europe to split.

Correct.

I, a pro-Ukrainian French person, have every sympathy for the Russian people, and do think we need to offer humanitarian visas. They already protested the war in the Spring, and got beaten up, threatened, put in jail and fined. But as usual, it's the poor people who will suffer: the ones who cannot afford plane tickets, who don't have cars to leave the country. Dozens of thousands of Russian men will die for a delusional war they didn't want for a leader they never liked. Just because their suffering pales in comparison with what the Ukrainian people is collectively suffering, it doesn't mean they deserve it.

Putin should be tried for a genocidal war against Ukraine AND putting his own people in grave physical and economic jeopardy.

You have sympathy for the Russians because you don’t talk with people who live there. I talk with them daily because I have plenty of friends and relatives in both Ukraine and Russia. Most of those who are still in Russia are brainwashed, support their “special military operation” and are happy that Ukrainians are being killed. My friend’s husband is subject to the second wave of mobilization, and I asked her if they consider leaving the country. She said no way, he’ll join the army if ordered and their sons will too. Her husband’s parents live in a Ukrainian city that’s being bombed by the Russians every day. And he is ready to come and help to bomb the city where his parents live and where he was born and raised. I have no hope and sympathy for those who are still in Russia and would fully support if the US could kill their entire government and media propagandists. All my sympathy is with Ukraine.

+1. The strategy needs to place more pressure on the Russian Government internally. Shut down all borders to the West. Repatriate current Russian Refugees. Deny all visa travel to/from Russia so that even the party officials can't get their own children out. Russian refugees, knowing that they are labeled vyrus or nerus will not be keen on falling in line. I would make it clear that the ONLY way out of Russia is to go ahead and mobilize, then take your chances by immediately surrendering to Ukrainian forces. I would also offer defection incentives (ex. if you provide information or equipment to Ukraine, you'll get a monetary bonus). This should further demoralize the Russian armed forces, and reduce their effectiveness (can you trust any mobilized person?), and encourage mobilized Russians to disobey the orders of their superiors.

Remember that Putin could, in theory, start a nuclear war at any time. It is more difficult to do the more Russian internal infrastructure and military is bogged down. This is the only way I see that keeps Russia off balance - to water down the current propaganda by flooding in information from the outside world gathered by Russian refugees.

This may seem cruel to the refugees, but you need to understand that if you let all protesters out of Russia, you're doing Putin a favor my making it easier to enact the mobilization and wage war. This will help Russia to take control of its own destiny and chart a new path forward - by having the "rational" people back inside their own country.

Saw a good post on Twitter along the lines of "If a million Russians go to the EU they will destabilize the EU. If they have to stay in Russia they will destabilize Russia."

Russia made its bed, let it sleep in it.

[Anonymous]

If Putin is toppled, then Russia likely destabilizes and becomes much more dangerous to its neighbors and the world than it currently is. I think the best solution is finding a way to contain Putin, but keeping him in power…at least for now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Putin is toppled, then Russia likely destabilizes and becomes much more dangerous to its neighbors and the world than it currently is. I think the best solution is finding a way to contain Putin, but keeping him in power…at least for now.

Russia can't get much more dangerous to its neighbors or the world.