What is the End Game in Ukraine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Putin is toppled, then Russia likely destabilizes and becomes much more dangerous to its neighbors and the world than it currently is. I think the best solution is finding a way to contain Putin, but keeping him in power…at least for now.

You could've saved yourself that paragraph and plainly told us you're in favor of appeasement. That has worked so well in the past. *eye roll*

[Anonymous]

End game =

Use 40 million Ukrainians to grind down 140 million Russians to half the population.

Ideally we want to keep Putin throwing men and resources into Russia but short of nuclear war.

Keep this cooking for a decade plus.

And then in 2030, Russia and Ukraine are so destroyed and poor that western firms and countries can rebuild And gain assets for cheap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:End game =

Use 40 million Ukrainians to grind down 140 million Russians to half the population.

Ideally we want to keep Putin throwing men and resources into Russia but short of nuclear war.

Keep this cooking for a decade plus.

And then in 2030, Russia and Ukraine are so destroyed and poor that western firms and countries can rebuild And gain assets for cheap

I don't think this is a likely scenario anymore. It was a month ago, but not now. Whatever happens I think will happen in the next 5 months. The fuse has already been lit by Putin himself.

If Russia destabilizes (becoming more and more likely), all it will do is open the door for China. Russia will most likely sell (from corrupt officials) all the high-tech weapons and technology it can. This will fuel Chinese nationalism - the result of which is likely Russia becoming a puppet state of China (if it does not turn to the West). That would be almost as bad as a scenario as nuclear war.

Ironically enough, in my gut I always felt (rightly or wrongly), at least a third or half of Russia's nuclear arsenal was always targeted at China, not the West. Russia always knew that the U.S. could not launch an effective land war against them and vis versa. The logistics were just too insurmountable. It was the classic American vs British issue during the American Revolutionary War. The British were higher tech, just too far away.

There is a saying - the only thing the Chinese Government fears is the Chinese people. Far-right Chinese nationalists I think are even more crazy than far-right Russian nationalists. If you thought the Russian's are brainwashed, try a farmer who believes the urine of a small child will bring vigor back to grandma. Far right Chinese nationalists have also had an expansionist bent to their propaganda, imho. I don't think they would be content with just making money in a peaceful world. Russia has a lot of land. Russia in turmoil makes a great future investment for anyone who needs leg room.

Does the Russian government know this already? I have to assume so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:End game =

Use 40 million Ukrainians to grind down 140 million Russians to half the population.

Ideally we want to keep Putin throwing men and resources into Russia but short of nuclear war.

Keep this cooking for a decade plus.

And then in 2030, Russia and Ukraine are so destroyed and poor that western firms and countries can rebuild And gain assets for cheap

Lol. Ideally Russia will just go home and mobilization is just a national Betty Ford Clinic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Putin is toppled, then Russia likely destabilizes and becomes much more dangerous to its neighbors and the world than it currently is. I think the best solution is finding a way to contain Putin, but keeping him in power…at least for now.

You could've saved yourself that paragraph and plainly told us you're in favor of appeasement. That has worked so well in the past. *eye roll*

Containment is not appeasement. Hope that eye roll didn’t hurt too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:End game =

Use 40 million Ukrainians to grind down 140 million Russians to half the population.

Ideally we want to keep Putin throwing men and resources into Russia but short of nuclear war.

Keep this cooking for a decade plus.

And then in 2030, Russia and Ukraine are so destroyed and poor that western firms and countries can rebuild And gain assets for cheap

Exactly!
Europe will need some “help” as well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:End game =

Use 40 million Ukrainians to grind down 140 million Russians to half the population.

Ideally we want to keep Putin throwing men and resources into Russia but short of nuclear war.

Keep this cooking for a decade plus.

And then in 2030, Russia and Ukraine are so destroyed and poor that western firms and countries can rebuild And gain assets for cheap

Exactly!
Europe will need some “help” as well

Europe gets so poor we all get to have English butlers and French governesses for cheap!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:End game =

Use 40 million Ukrainians to grind down 140 million Russians to half the population.

Ideally we want to keep Putin throwing men and resources into Russia but short of nuclear war.

Keep this cooking for a decade plus.

And then in 2030, Russia and Ukraine are so destroyed and poor that western firms and countries can rebuild And gain assets for cheap

I don't think this is a likely scenario anymore. It was a month ago, but not now. Whatever happens I think will happen in the next 5 months. The fuse has already been lit by Putin himself.

If Russia destabilizes (becoming more and more likely), all it will do is open the door for China. Russia will most likely sell (from corrupt officials) all the high-tech weapons and technology it can. This will fuel Chinese nationalism - the result of which is likely Russia becoming a puppet state of China (if it does not turn to the West). That would be almost as bad as a scenario as nuclear war.

Ironically enough, in my gut I always felt (rightly or wrongly), at least a third or half of Russia's nuclear arsenal was always targeted at China, not the West. Russia always knew that the U.S. could not launch an effective land war against them and vis versa. The logistics were just too insurmountable. It was the classic American vs British issue during the American Revolutionary War. The British were higher tech, just too far away.

There is a saying - the only thing the Chinese Government fears is the Chinese people. Far-right Chinese nationalists I think are even more crazy than far-right Russian nationalists. If you thought the Russian's are brainwashed, try a farmer who believes the urine of a small child will bring vigor back to grandma. Far right Chinese nationalists have also had an expansionist bent to their propaganda, imho. I don't think they would be content with just making money in a peaceful world. Russia has a lot of land. Russia in turmoil makes a great future investment for anyone who needs leg room.

Does the Russian government know this already? I have to assume so.

Good points.

I also think Russian elites and even regular russians are loathe becoming junior “partners” to China and loss of land to China due to racial superiority views.

It’s partly why russians went to war against Japanese in the late 19th/early 20th century and so confident they could win/dictate terms of the relationship. Russians thought there was no way Japanese are on the same level let alone superior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:End game =

Use 40 million Ukrainians to grind down 140 million Russians to half the population.

Ideally we want to keep Putin throwing men and resources into Russia but short of nuclear war.

Keep this cooking for a decade plus.

And then in 2030, Russia and Ukraine are so destroyed and poor that western firms and countries can rebuild And gain assets for cheap

Exactly!
Europe will need some “help” as well

Europe gets so poor we all get to have English butlers and French governesses for cheap!

Just huge new markets; or rather, new niches on the market