What is the End Game in Ukraine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s time to push in to Russia itself.

No one wants that, but Putin and the FSB have long been obsessed with the idea that the West wants to invade or at least topple the regime and control the next leader. It's the entire reason why Putin and the ultranationalists want a Greater Russia, to defend itself against the West. Which from their point of view makes total sense. I'm sure a CIA unit is tasked with making contacts with political opponents and fundraising opposition movements and activitists. But it might pain them to know that Russia is not *that* high on any country's list that they'd want to actively take on a managerial role in its affairs. We're more concerned with China.

Too bad. Who cares what Putin says. He is done within the year. Russia is weak and ripe for the picking. The Chinese want to take back territory and oil/gas resources. Ukraine will push in to Russia to provide a Buffer zone. There are so many factions within Russia including the oil and gas industries who are losing billions.

[Anonymous]

This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kharkiv has plunged into darkness--seems the Russians hit some key infrastructure on their way out.

So?

It’s a war. Worse things happen then losing power or Wi-Fi


Russia straight up sucks. Like the entire country we thought would acclimate after the USSR fell.
Sure, some may be ok; they have some good looking people; but they are not western.

The fact they knock out power plants is no big deal; I am surprised the the barbaric Russians have not used nukes yet…but give a week or two an I am sure they exceed expectations for atrocities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Things must be going worse for Russia during this counter-offensive than we think.

Every time this thread, or one of the others, pops back up it's just before they fall on their faces again.

I for one welcome these spasmodic returns. It smells like victory in the air.

Wow, this one called it. Comment is from 9/6 at 12:15. The big counteroffensive news broke the next day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

That’s the standard Putin talking point. I thought the two guys talking like actual humans and making some good points made the white haired guy reciting rote talking points about nazis look even worse. He was using talking points from 6 months ago because he had absolutely nothing to say in response. And I think he knew it but didn’t want to end up with a bomb under his car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

LOL careful you're diverting from the party line that says Ukraine is a prosperous, freedom-loving, transparent democracy and any criticism of it and its government are strictly verboten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s time to push in to Russia itself.

No one wants that, but Putin and the FSB have long been obsessed with the idea that the West wants to invade or at least topple the regime and control the next leader. It's the entire reason why Putin and the ultranationalists want a Greater Russia, to defend itself against the West. Which from their point of view makes total sense. I'm sure a CIA unit is tasked with making contacts with political opponents and fundraising opposition movements and activitists. But it might pain them to know that Russia is not *that* high on any country's list that they'd want to actively take on a managerial role in its affairs. We're more concerned with China.

I think it is unquestionable that the "West" would very much prefer to have Russia led by a West-approved, compliant leader a la Zelensky.

Inasmuch as past history is the best indicator of future performance, it's also not unreasonable to have concerns about the West-driven regime change - certainly the West has not shied away from replacing leaders it doesn't like by force, invasions, funding the opposition, meddling in elections, or, in cases where this doesn't work, economic warfare. You cannot possibly argue that hasn't happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

No, we haven't forgotten. Here's a good article on it: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 However, Ukraine is trying to protect its right to self-determination and from unprovoked attacks by Russia. I'm sure if they win, then the U.S. and other countries that have influence will continue to press on eradicating its neo-Nazi problem. So, while we're on the subject, what you Trumpers doing about your own Nazi problem? You know, "very fine people on both sides" and all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can't you Trumpers be happy that Ukraine is winning? That the Soviet Union won't be revived? That this might bring about the end of Putin's regime? That NATO and our western alliances will be stronger because of this? That the U.S. hasn't embroiled itself directly in another foreign entanglement? Trump wanted Europe to start contributing its fair share of the NATO budget. Well, this war seems to have done the trick. It shouldn't matter that it happened under Biden. You should be happy to see an adversary - one that has directly interfered in U.S. elections get its comeuppance.

The Hate America First crowd loves autocrats like Orban and Putin.

All American presidents loved the Gulf autocrats. It's a common disease, dear.

Uhm, no. All presidents dealt with gulf autocrats because they control tons of oil and we need tons of oil. If that desert had only sand, they would still be living in tents like 1930 and nobody would care about them.

LOL no one is saying they deal with the Gulf dictatorships because they love the smell of oud. The fact of the matter is that the Western embrace of the Gulf monarchies and theocracies illuminates the cold reality - the Western talk of supporting freedom, democracy, human rights etc is just a bunch of BS. The West doesn't care about any of this. The West deals with dictators just fine. It doesn't have any innate opposition to dictatorships, monarchs or theocracies. The truth is like this: Does the West care about human rights, democracy, and freedom? Sure, as long as it concerns the countries the West considers enemies. If it concerns the countries the West considers friends, then it doesn't care.

I mean why is Israel allowed to annex the West Bank and Russia isn't allowed to annex Crimea?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

No, we haven't forgotten. Here's a good article on it: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 However, Ukraine is trying to protect its right to self-determination and from unprovoked attacks by Russia. I'm sure if they win, then the U.S. and other countries that have influence will continue to press on eradicating its neo-Nazi problem. So, while we're on the subject, what you Trumpers doing about your own Nazi problem? You know, "very fine people on both sides" and all?

LOL the West respects the right to self-determine but only from the right people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s time to push in to Russia itself.

No one wants that, but Putin and the FSB have long been obsessed with the idea that the West wants to invade or at least topple the regime and control the next leader. It's the entire reason why Putin and the ultranationalists want a Greater Russia, to defend itself against the West. Which from their point of view makes total sense. I'm sure a CIA unit is tasked with making contacts with political opponents and fundraising opposition movements and activitists. But it might pain them to know that Russia is not *that* high on any country's list that they'd want to actively take on a managerial role in its affairs. We're more concerned with China.

I think it is unquestionable that the "West" would very much prefer to have Russia led by a West-approved, compliant leader a la Zelensky.

Inasmuch as past history is the best indicator of future performance, it's also not unreasonable to have concerns about the West-driven regime change - certainly the West has not shied away from replacing leaders it doesn't like by force, invasions, funding the opposition, meddling in elections, or, in cases where this doesn't work, economic warfare. You cannot possibly argue that hasn't happened.

I'm not disputing that it would be mice to have a democratic Russia.

But Putin and allies believe there is an intense effort underway to fund opposition parties and effect regime change, and there simply isn't, because we don't care that much. Every nation spies on every other nation. The EU countries and the USA desultorily helps opposition parties of autocracies around the world and monitors regime weaknesses, etc, but the fact of the matter is that Russia is not all that. Not worth our time and money. Putin is obsessed over figments of his imagination, as usual.

[Anonymous]

10:25 again.

And there are neo-Nazi factions everywhere in Europe, and particularly so in Eastern Europe. No disputes there either.

But just like MAGAs are not America, Ukrainian neo-Nazis are not Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an amazing debate on Russian state TV. Finally, some voices of sense dare to speak:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569070513909022720

Hope they don't go home to polonium in their underwear.

Note the gasligting calling the Ukrainians Nazi's when their president is....Jewish.

Just 12 months ago the NYT had articles attacking the Ukranian government for including far-right, pro-Nazi groups...how fast some forget!

No, we haven't forgotten. Here's a good article on it: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 However, Ukraine is trying to protect its right to self-determination and from unprovoked attacks by Russia. I'm sure if they win, then the U.S. and other countries that have influence will continue to press on eradicating its neo-Nazi problem. So, while we're on the subject, what you Trumpers doing about your own Nazi problem? You know, "very fine people on both sides" and all?

LOL the West respects the right to self-determine but only from the right people.

If anyone thinks they are going to "self determine" their way into the us capital and is presidency without actually winning a national election with enough votes, they are going to be disappointed.