Why do women compete with their friends?

[Anonymous]

PP who bumped. Thanks so much. It’s good to hear that I’m not alone.

Like you, I do think this competition has been going on for a long time, but I was stupidly oblivious to it...because I was at the top of the hierarchy. At 24, I had a really good job but generally did my own thing. My splurge was travel, but I can look back now and realize that most of my friends couldn’t afford that. I took their interest in clothes at face value; not as a possible sign they couldn’t affford other things.

At 24, I was also really focused on going back to school. My friends were too (and they did). I was never the girl who cared much about getting married by 25, but I ended up meeting DH in school and got married on the earlier end at 30. I have a really good career. He has a great one. There’s this weird dynamic where I’ve been iced out of the group but I also feel awkward trying to engage more, so I’ve stopped trying. When I think back over things now, I can think of some many little comments that were micro aggressions in the moment that I blew off. Now I think it’s indicative of their true feelings. Comments about my ring. Comments about how far ahead I was on my personal life. Comments about clothes and travel.

While I’m sad about their actions, I can only change myself and I want to be obvious about where I screwed up too. I honestly think I was too oblivious. I wasn’t bragging about my luxe clothes or lifestyle, but I should have been more mindful that not everyone was living like me.

[Anonymous]

I had this dynamic with a long time childhood friend. She was upset I had a family before she did and made a few hurtful comments about my husband and kids. When she finally got married and she and her husband made more money than us and lived in a fancier zip code- she was insufferable- she acted like we were less than her. We both mutually ended the friendship when she became pregnant. I couldn't stomach the thought of having to listen to endless stories/pics about how her awesome her kids were when she had disparaged mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had this dynamic with a long time childhood friend. She was upset I had a family before she did and made a few hurtful comments about my husband and kids. When she finally got married and she and her husband made more money than us and lived in a fancier zip code- she was insufferable- she acted like we were less than her. We both mutually ended the friendship when she became pregnant. I couldn't stomach the thought of having to listen to endless stories/pics about how her awesome her kids were when she had disparaged mine.

+1 for only having this problem with a long time childhood friend. None of the friends I have made from college through adulthood are like this - they happy for my wins, empathetic for the losses, and I feel like they're on my side. We support and love each other.

Childhood friend got very mean when I had professional success right out of college, and took it personally when I wouldn't go out drinking or travel because of work obligations. Every conversation was about how I was such a loser for working long hours, and how I was going to die alone and never have fun again.

Then I got married in late 20s (she is/was single), took a big step back to go back to school and try something new and she would always comment about how sad it is that I'll never have the excitement of dating again, how boring it must be to only have sex with one person, faux-empathy about how difficult it must be to start a new career just dripping with condescension, about how her job is more important than mine, better paid, and how she works harder than me.

I stopped drinking after the kids came for health and mental reasons. I wasn't a messy/problem drinker other than occasionally in college, but she was there for it and now takes every opportunity possible to bring up this one specific night (10+ years ago!) where I threw up after drinking too much on a post-heartbreak/breakup bender. WTF lady, this was a decade ago and my poor, stupid little 20 year old heart was broken. Is it really that funny? BUT she also has to talk about how much more fun I was when I drank.

We don't see her often now because COVID, but before that also because her social life revolves around drinking and it's awkward for me. When we do see her it's just constant belittling for the strangest things (I'm wearing clothes I had a decade ago, how she would 'rather die' than live in my UMC 'boring' suburb, I am pathetic because we have the same vacations every year, I go to bed too early because I don't respond to texts after 10pm, most recently mocking me for being a 'basement dwelling loser' for not wanting to come over to her indoor wine and cheese night during COVID, which she held 3 days after being in the UK, etc.).

I want to ditch her permanently but she is close with a group of girls I've known my whole life and it would be really impossible without cutting them all off, which I don't want to do. She is not nearly as catty and mean with them, but was not as close growing up and had less in common with them from ~12-21 years old so I suspect she's hurt and/or angry that my priorities changed as I got older compared to hers. I never initiate contact but I am just dying to respond to the next text with 'if you think I'm such an insufferable loser, why do you keep messaging me?'.

[Anonymous]

It saddens me to see so many broken relationships. I have genuine loving relationships with friends from childhood. Near all of them. No bad blood.

Maybe because we have distance in our personal lives? But there is authenticity and transparency as if we never lost a beat when we connect.

This women helped to stretch and challenge me, while offering me a soft landing space for support. They fought when I wanted to cave in, they helped dress my wounds.

Before this — I was lonely. I didn’t trust women because I only saw stories like what is being shared here. I wasn’t superficial, I was just unavailable. A loving friend reached through to me and I realized that much of my hesitation and tolerance forward solely related to my experience as a woman with my birth mother growing up.

So many people are broken and don’t even realize it. It is hard to observe without concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had this dynamic with a long time childhood friend. She was upset I had a family before she did and made a few hurtful comments about my husband and kids. When she finally got married and she and her husband made more money than us and lived in a fancier zip code- she was insufferable- she acted like we were less than her. We both mutually ended the friendship when she became pregnant. I couldn't stomach the thought of having to listen to endless stories/pics about how her awesome her kids were when she had disparaged mine.

+1 for only having this problem with a long time childhood friend. None of the friends I have made from college through adulthood are like this - they happy for my wins, empathetic for the losses, and I feel like they're on my side. We support and love each other.

Childhood friend got very mean when I had professional success right out of college, and took it personally when I wouldn't go out drinking or travel because of work obligations. Every conversation was about how I was such a loser for working long hours, and how I was going to die alone and never have fun again.

Then I got married in late 20s (she is/was single), took a big step back to go back to school and try something new and she would always comment about how sad it is that I'll never have the excitement of dating again, how boring it must be to only have sex with one person, faux-empathy about how difficult it must be to start a new career just dripping with condescension, about how her job is more important than mine, better paid, and how she works harder than me.

I stopped drinking after the kids came for health and mental reasons. I wasn't a messy/problem drinker other than occasionally in college, but she was there for it and now takes every opportunity possible to bring up this one specific night (10+ years ago!) where I threw up after drinking too much on a post-heartbreak/breakup bender. WTF lady, this was a decade ago and my poor, stupid little 20 year old heart was broken. Is it really that funny? BUT she also has to talk about how much more fun I was when I drank.

We don't see her often now because COVID, but before that also because her social life revolves around drinking and it's awkward for me. When we do see her it's just constant belittling for the strangest things (I'm wearing clothes I had a decade ago, how she would 'rather die' than live in my UMC 'boring' suburb, I am pathetic because we have the same vacations every year, I go to bed too early because I don't respond to texts after 10pm, most recently mocking me for being a 'basement dwelling loser' for not wanting to come over to her indoor wine and cheese night during COVID, which she held 3 days after being in the UK, etc.).

I want to ditch her permanently but she is close with a group of girls I've known my whole life and it would be really impossible without cutting them all off, which I don't want to do. She is not nearly as catty and mean with them, but was not as close growing up and had less in common with them from ~12-21 years old so I suspect she's hurt and/or angry that my priorities changed as I got older compared to hers. I never initiate contact but I am just dying to respond to the next text with 'if you think I'm such an insufferable loser, why do you keep messaging me?'.

PP, find your voice, and express yourself with confidence. You don’t have to be dramatic, or have ill will. Liken yourself to a dam, establishing a solid security measure when the demands of others seek to overtake you. Hold the door, and define your boundary, it can be in a very quiet whisper, a silently loving look - or a clear direct expression. Even something as simple as: “I disagree.”

And nothing more. Start with that. We should only be held captive to the authority we choose to submit to.eventually, you may be able to redirect the energy of this symbolic dam in a way that gives light to others. Don’t reduce the power just redirect and don’t be afraid to be yourself.

If you cannot to this — untangle yourself completely, and then reassess your capacity.

Also read up on codependency. It can happen in friendships. One friendship we were codependents!! But we grew out of it together, isn’t that something?

I wish the best for you. .

[Anonymous]

Q: why do women compete with friends?
A: Ultimately, everything boils down to nature/nurture/need.

It is a process for everyone. Often people are barely treading water even if it looks like they are just floating on their back.

[Anonymous]

Same. In my 20s I was doing extremely well (bought two homes) and just enjoying my life. I never rubbed this in my friend's face - I would do my best to just talk about regular things - politics, life, love, travel (they were doing trips). But every part of their conservation seemed resentful and misery-based. I didn't even realize why until I hit my 30s. I still don't understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP, find your voice, and express yourself with confidence. You don’t have to be dramatic, or have ill will. Liken yourself to a dam, establishing a solid security measure when the demands of others seek to overtake you. Hold the door, and define your boundary, it can be in a very quiet whisper, a silently loving look - or a clear direct expression. Even something as simple as: “I disagree.”

And nothing more. Start with that. We should only be held captive to the authority we choose to submit to.eventually, you may be able to redirect the energy of this symbolic dam in a way that gives light to others. Don’t reduce the power just redirect and don’t be afraid to be yourself.

If you cannot to this — untangle yourself completely, and then reassess your capacity.

Also read up on codependency. It can happen in friendships. One friendship we were codependents!! But we grew out of it together, isn’t that something?

I wish the best for you. .

PP here. Thank you so much for the thoughtful response to my late night rant (welp!). This question really got me riled up because it is something that has been bothering me for a while and you're absolutely right about setting boundaries and untangling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP, find your voice, and express yourself with confidence. You don’t have to be dramatic, or have ill will. Liken yourself to a dam, establishing a solid security measure when the demands of others seek to overtake you. Hold the door, and define your boundary, it can be in a very quiet whisper, a silently loving look - or a clear direct expression. Even something as simple as: “I disagree.”

And nothing more. Start with that. We should only be held captive to the authority we choose to submit to.eventually, you may be able to redirect the energy of this symbolic dam in a way that gives light to others. Don’t reduce the power just redirect and don’t be afraid to be yourself.

If you cannot to this — untangle yourself completely, and then reassess your capacity.

Also read up on codependency. It can happen in friendships. One friendship we were codependents!! But we grew out of it together, isn’t that something?

I wish the best for you. .

PP here. Thank you so much for the thoughtful response to my late night rant (welp!). This question really got me riled up because it is something that has been bothering me for a while and you're absolutely right about setting boundaries and untangling.

You’re welcome.

[Anonymous]

I don't have ANY friends like that. I'd suggest finding other friends. I do have a brother like that, but can't change brothers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am skeptical of anyone who says that none of their friends ever do this. I think sometimes friends can go through good times where there isn't much competition and where people get along well. But if you have women friends for a long time, I think you inevitably hit patches where rivalry comes up. Again, I've seen it in friends from every era of my life at some point or another. I'll be rolling along great in a friendship and then something will shift -- someone starts a new relationship, work gets stressful, someone's marriage is on the rocks, etc. -- and dynamics change. I am struggling to think of a single female friendship I've had that hasn't had a phase like this.

I'm not saying women are naturally competitive or that all my friends are always insecure and jealous. Far from it -- I love these women. They are funny, accomplished, kind, interesting. But this dynamic always comes up eventually. It is particularly present in my life right now. I wonder if it is a mid-life crisis thing. Most of the women I know are late 30s, early 40s, and I see a lot of people assessing where they are at in life and sometimes lashing out, and other times getting smug. They are both ugly behaviors.

I also don't know if this is unique to women. But I'm a woman and while I have friends with people of all genders, I only notice these dynamics in my female friendships.

I absolutely agree with you, but also I believe women are naturally competitive. Why wouldn't we be? Men are competitive with each other in terms of money, sports, status, sex.

While women are innately hive-minded, we also compete to maintain our standing and hold-on to our resources. When we're younger, we tend to focus on our attractiveness and ability to secure a mate, which can impact female friendships if we're hunting at the same watering hole. When we have partners or spouses, we compare them to those of our friends. As we age, we compare our resources--careers, money, homes--and our families. We shouldn't feel bad about entertaining these normal thoughts. It's only negative when we or others in our friendship-circle are insecure, resentful, need to dominate, and sabotage other friends.

As another PP mentioned, I think it is easier to maintain healthy female friendships when there is some diversity in the group. And if there is someone who has any of those negative traits mentioned above, by all means, end it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am skeptical of anyone who says that none of their friends ever do this. I think sometimes friends can go through good times where there isn't much competition and where people get along well. But if you have women friends for a long time, I think you inevitably hit patches where rivalry comes up. Again, I've seen it in friends from every era of my life at some point or another. I'll be rolling along great in a friendship and then something will shift -- someone starts a new relationship, work gets stressful, someone's marriage is on the rocks, etc. -- and dynamics change. I am struggling to think of a single female friendship I've had that hasn't had a phase like this.

I'm not saying women are naturally competitive or that all my friends are always insecure and jealous. Far from it -- I love these women. They are funny, accomplished, kind, interesting. But this dynamic always comes up eventually. It is particularly present in my life right now. I wonder if it is a mid-life crisis thing. Most of the women I know are late 30s, early 40s, and I see a lot of people assessing where they are at in life and sometimes lashing out, and other times getting smug. They are both ugly behaviors.

I also don't know if this is unique to women. But I'm a woman and while I have friends with people of all genders, I only notice these dynamics in my female friendships.

I absolutely agree with you, but also I believe women are naturally competitive. Why wouldn't we be? Men are competitive with each other in terms of money, sports, status, sex.

While women are innately hive-minded, we also compete to maintain our standing and hold-on to our resources. When we're younger, we tend to focus on our attractiveness and ability to secure a mate, which can impact female friendships if we're hunting at the same watering hole. When we have partners or spouses, we compare them to those of our friends. As we age, we compare our resources--careers, money, homes--and our families. We shouldn't feel bad about entertaining these normal thoughts. It's only negative when we or others in our friendship-circle are insecure, resentful, need to dominate, and sabotage other friends.

As another PP mentioned, I think it is easier to maintain healthy female friendships when there is some diversity in the group. And if there is someone who has any of those negative traits mentioned above, by all means, end it.

If women are so competitive, why are 88% of billionaires men? Why are the majority of CEOs men and why do women drop out of the workforce at the drop of a hat?

[GrannyGeorgianne]

I'm a Boomer and used to believe that intense female competition was a bit anachronistic. My own mother was fiercely competitive, and it frightened me. I assumed that a lot of it had to do with her generation being conditioned that way, along with limited professional and personal options for women. But after decades of observation, it seems like there isn't a whole lot of empathy and 'sisterhood' in the younger generations, although most of them don't have the level of desperation about limited opportunities.

I was always homely and socially inept, so I was able to cancel myself out of the social competition, but I did observe it. It's easy to be an observer when you fade into the background. Obviously, most competition is based primarily on looks, and what's interesting about that is that it's not the men who 'police' women's looks, it's other women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bumping this old thread, largely because I’ve seen this among my friend group now at 38.

At 24, everyone was largely living the same post college, pre grad school life. At 35-40? Now that weddings, honeymoons, babies, houses, cars, school have come into the mix? I’m definitely sensing some competition among my friends and it sucks. Not everyone, but definitely some. It’s almost this, Oh I’m so successful, I make so much, I have such a good marriage blah blah blah. It makes me sad - friendships I cherished but now feel overly competitive. How are others dealing? Me and OP can’t be the only ones.

I think it's in part cultural, and that's why it's hard to get completely away from this if you are paying attention, even amongst healthy and kind female friendships.

We live in a heavily capitalistic society. I'm not necessarily against that -- it may be the best option! I really don't know -- but it is predicated on most people being unhappy with their lives. Planned obsolescence of items, the belief you are faulty and buying some product will fix it, the internecine battles for artificially restricted resources (work, dating, awards). If you are trying to be happy with yourself in the life you have, there isn't a lot of support. There is a helluva a lot of pressure to be unhappy, though, and it can be unremitting.

I have learned to limit my closest friendships to women with whom I have a track record of generally avoiding these interactions. When it comes up, I will usually let it slide, or if it persists, call it out frankly. It helps to have a diversity of interests amongst my group of friends, so we aren't all just ranking ourselves against each other.

I think it's always going to be a balancing act. You can find other women who also resist that cultural bait, but we are all swimming in at least a little toxic soup together. It's never totally gone, I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The competition that annoys me the most is when it's related to comparisons of children. That is hands down the quickest way to get me to cut a friend off. Children are off limits. If your insecurities run so deep that you need to compare kids, I will see you to the door with a quickness.

Agreed, but sometimes it is subtle. I think that's the problem with a lot of competition among women. It's not the way it gets portrayed in the media -- it's usually not overt or obvious. It's a series of carefully phrased comments that get under your skin over time. And it's hard to say anything about, because if you call them out, they can always say "Oh, I didn't mean it that way." But she did.

I don't think it's all women, and that even women who do this don't do it all the time or with everyone. But I do think some women have a specific way of pissing on their territory that is especially frustrating. I sometimes wish a woman would just come out and say "I don't like you" rather than claiming to love me while always trying to top every story I tell or making little comments about my husband or kids that aren't exactly critical... but aren't supportive either. It's death by paper cut and I hate it.

I feel like I'm getting better at spotting women like this earlier on in a friendship and just choosing not to get close. But when I was younger, I would often not catch on until I was drawn into these weird frenemy relationships and then there would be drama when I tried to extract myself. But I think it's a specific personality that does this kind of thing -- very insecure women who need to assert dominance over other women in order to feel confident in themselves. It's... not great!

This is thoughtfully written.