Help me navigate this type of argument or response with my DH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, take this for what it's worth. I'm a marriage therapist and I've been married for 30 years.

It doesn't matter what your husband is doing, you are the one that needs to change because he may never change.

First piece of advice - pick up the mugs yourself and put them in the sink. Don't want to do that? Okay, then be prepared to have this discussion about dirty mugs for another 20 years. This is so easy for you to just take care of, who cares if it's "your" job or "his" job.

Second, if you are going to make an issue of the mugs just use a few words, no need to go on and on since you've probably had this conversation a hundred times.

"I would really appreciate it if you would put your mugs in the sink."

End of discussion. He can retort with whatever he'd like, just say "mmm hmmm" and keep on moving through your day.

Same with the lights example.

The money thing - I believe if their is enough money for the essentials then nobody has any business telling anybody else how to spend money. Again, you may disagree but you wouldn't like it if it was done to you.

And my last piece of advice, stop watching everything he does and says, he's allowed to not be perfect and so are you. Let it go.

This stuff really piles up in a house with an ADHD spouse and parent. It is constant and never-ending and gross.

Life is too short to live in a pigsty or with a pig. Seriously.

You almost have to reconcile it as someone with a disability and then decide if that's the life you want and thats the partner-in-life you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you need to stop being a hypocrite...?

Completely agree. Since you’re apparently also at fault, don’t start out accusing him of doing things wrong. Say, our electric bill was really high last month. I’m going to try to be better about turning things off. Will you, too?” Instead, you go at him like you do, when you’re in no place to point any fingers.

More like he's doing it 90% of the time - forgetting to turn off lights when leaving the room - and she does it 10% of the time. But he's tactical response is to say, "I saw you leave XYZ on the floor last week." Mean while he has stuff all of the house on the floor and counters; can't put much away where it belongs at all.

[Anonymous]

Use "I" or "we" language. In the lights example, "hey, I noticed our electric bill was really high. I think we're not being very careful abot turning them off. Let's try to do that, ok?"

Second, when he deflects, dont fight back. "Can you not leave your dirty socks on the kitchen table?" "Well, you leave your dirty underwear on the floor of the bathroom!" "yikes, you're right I do, and its gross. Okay, can we both work on this?"

Him "You're spending too much money" You: "oh, alright? Should we go over our budget? Was there a particular charge that is concerning?" [in other words, answer him the way you want to be answered when you complain--perhaps it will change the tone.].

you: "it really bothers me the way you joke about me to your family." Him "well, you cut me off." You: okay it sounds like we need to work on our communication. I'm wondering, though, what's behind makig those jokes? can we talk about it?"


as for all the annoying shit: I finally gave up, decided it was easier to do it myself or not see it. Its annoying and grating, but after multiple times of asking nicely to please close the shower curtain after you use it (not leave it bunched up), please close cabinets you open, pleaese turn off lights, please dont leave socks on the dining room table, etc, etc. that it will never get anywhere, so the only thing I can change is my response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to use an over-used term, but my DH does this as a way of gaslighting me. Whenever I bring up a really serious issue he turns it around on me, and refuses to discuss what I brought up. It's super infuriating because I KNOW that I have my own role and my own issues. But, they are very different from DHs. I'll bring up something specific about DH and he'll attempt to completely deflect by claiming I do the same thing (which I don't.) I call him out on it, but we still don't have anything approaching a productive conversation.

Exact same thing here. I only bring things up now that are truly important to me. I don't bring up anything about the house or money, only his health. He had a heart attack in his 30's, has diabetes and continues to eat whatever he wants and not exercise. If I bring up that I'm worried about him and hope that he wants to be healthy for the sake of our family and seeing our kids grow up, he turns it around on me saying things like "Well, I saw *you* eat a piece of candy the other day!". For one thing, if I did eat a piece of candy it would be rare and even if I did eat *2* pieces of candy I don't have any health issues which would preclude me from eating a piece of candy once in awhile! He deflects so he doesn't have to take responsibility for his own choices. He does this about everything--which is why I don't even bother bringing up the little things anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to use an over-used term, but my DH does this as a way of gaslighting me. Whenever I bring up a really serious issue he turns it around on me, and refuses to discuss what I brought up. It's super infuriating because I KNOW that I have my own role and my own issues. But, they are very different from DHs. I'll bring up something specific about DH and he'll attempt to completely deflect by claiming I do the same thing (which I don't.) I call him out on it, but we still don't have anything approaching a productive conversation.

Exact same thing here. I only bring things up now that are truly important to me. I don't bring up anything about the house or money, only his health. He had a heart attack in his 30's, has diabetes and continues to eat whatever he wants and not exercise. If I bring up that I'm worried about him and hope that he wants to be healthy for the sake of our family and seeing our kids grow up, he turns it around on me saying things like "Well, I saw *you* eat a piece of candy the other day!". For one thing, if I did eat a piece of candy it would be rare and even if I did eat *2* pieces of candy I don't have any health issues which would preclude me from eating a piece of candy once in awhile! He deflects so he doesn't have to take responsibility for his own choices. He does this about everything--which is why I don't even bother bringing up the little things anymore.

I forgot to mention that then it devolves into a lecture about everything I do wrong, and the tone is what really gets me. It's condescending and whatever it is he's picking on me about doesn't hold a candle to the fact that he's killing himself and will expect me to pick up the pieces when his health fails. I'm almost at the point where I'm going to tell him that he's welcome to do whatever he wants, but he can do it by himself because I won't be around to be his caretaker since this is something that didn't just happen to him--he makes his own choices every day and if the heart attack won't change his habits then nothing will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to use an over-used term, but my DH does this as a way of gaslighting me. Whenever I bring up a really serious issue he turns it around on me, and refuses to discuss what I brought up. It's super infuriating because I KNOW that I have my own role and my own issues. But, they are very different from DHs. I'll bring up something specific about DH and he'll attempt to completely deflect by claiming I do the same thing (which I don't.) I call him out on it, but we still don't have anything approaching a productive conversation.

Exact same thing here. I only bring things up now that are truly important to me. I don't bring up anything about the house or money, only his health. He had a heart attack in his 30's, has diabetes and continues to eat whatever he wants and not exercise. If I bring up that I'm worried about him and hope that he wants to be healthy for the sake of our family and seeing our kids grow up, he turns it around on me saying things like "Well, I saw *you* eat a piece of candy the other day!". For one thing, if I did eat a piece of candy it would be rare and even if I did eat *2* pieces of candy I don't have any health issues which would preclude me from eating a piece of candy once in awhile! He deflects so he doesn't have to take responsibility for his own choices. He does this about everything--which is why I don't even bother bringing up the little things anymore.

I forgot to mention that then it devolves into a lecture about everything I do wrong, and the tone is what really gets me. It's condescending and whatever it is he's picking on me about doesn't hold a candle to the fact that he's killing himself and will expect me to pick up the pieces when his health fails. I'm almost at the point where I'm going to tell him that he's welcome to do whatever he wants, but he can do it by himself because I won't be around to be his caretaker since this is something that didn't just happen to him--he makes his own choices every day and if the heart attack won't change his habits then nothing will.

He's condescending? You're the one treating him like a child by telling him what he should and shouldn't eat. He's an adult and has made his choice that he prefers food over his health. Now you make your choice. But spending what remains of your time with him nagging constantly isn't a great life for anyone.

[Anonymous]

I always just say we .

"Wow the bill was high this month. We need to get better about turning the lights off, I know I always forget."

"Shoot, we spent way too much money this week. We need to try to cut back next week to make up for it. I didn't even realize..."

It's so easy. Nobody feels attacked and since you've already looped yourself in on the behavior too he and flip it on you as if you're acting holier than thou.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to use an over-used term, but my DH does this as a way of gaslighting me. Whenever I bring up a really serious issue he turns it around on me, and refuses to discuss what I brought up. It's super infuriating because I KNOW that I have my own role and my own issues. But, they are very different from DHs. I'll bring up something specific about DH and he'll attempt to completely deflect by claiming I do the same thing (which I don't.) I call him out on it, but we still don't have anything approaching a productive conversation.

Exact same thing here. I only bring things up now that are truly important to me. I don't bring up anything about the house or money, only his health. He had a heart attack in his 30's, has diabetes and continues to eat whatever he wants and not exercise. If I bring up that I'm worried about him and hope that he wants to be healthy for the sake of our family and seeing our kids grow up, he turns it around on me saying things like "Well, I saw *you* eat a piece of candy the other day!". For one thing, if I did eat a piece of candy it would be rare and even if I did eat *2* pieces of candy I don't have any health issues which would preclude me from eating a piece of candy once in awhile! He deflects so he doesn't have to take responsibility for his own choices. He does this about everything--which is why I don't even bother bringing up the little things anymore.

I forgot to mention that then it devolves into a lecture about everything I do wrong, and the tone is what really gets me. It's condescending and whatever it is he's picking on me about doesn't hold a candle to the fact that he's killing himself and will expect me to pick up the pieces when his health fails. I'm almost at the point where I'm going to tell him that he's welcome to do whatever he wants, but he can do it by himself because I won't be around to be his caretaker since this is something that didn't just happen to him--he makes his own choices every day and if the heart attack won't change his habits then nothing will.

He's condescending? You're the one treating him like a child by telling him what he should and shouldn't eat. He's an adult and has made his choice that he prefers food over his health. Now you make your choice. But spending what remains of your time with him nagging constantly isn't a great life for anyone.

I actually don't tell him what he should and shouldn't eat. I tell him that I want him around and if he keeps on this path he won't be around. There is no constant nagging. You really told me!

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why you're confused. If you start out a conversation with ANYONE by accusing them of or attacking them about something don't you expect them to be defensive?! All of your examples were either accusations or attacks. You need to rephrase your approach entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always just say we .

"Wow the bill was high this month. We need to get better about turning the lights off, I know I always forget."

"Shoot, we spent way too much money this week. We need to try to cut back next week to make up for it. I didn't even realize..."

It's so easy. Nobody feels attacked and since you've already looped yourself in on the behavior too he and flip it on you as if you're acting holier than thou.

This is a slippery slope approach with partners looking to criticize. The worst weigh on a public acknowledgement of self-responsibility/accountability with blame and criticism. And later bring it up in a laundry list of things you said you do wrong. This technique probably works best in a mutually cooperative exchange. If it never happens, eventually resentment or contempt continues to build.

[Anonymous]

I would echo a lot of the advice given here.
-Choose the important things, it can’t be everything.
- Phrasing things as “why can’t you or you need to” will put the other person on the defensive and often won’t lead to the desired outcome. It does come off how a parent would speak to a child.
-If there is a problem, leave the solution open ended. For example with the lights, maybe the answer is to install light sensors so it goes off automatically, maybe you get one of the home systems so you can turn them off from your phone. I know these are made up examples but in real life I am extremely forgetful. Of all the things I have to remember, honestly the light are the least of my worries. If this was a make or break expense, we would need to look into a more automated way to control this or change things around so this was the only thing I had to remember.
-Agreed with PP that you don’t need to start out the conversation accepting all of the world’s faults to prove you aren’t perfect. As a pp pointed out someone that’s unaware will just think gee you have lots of issues, not that you are saying this for them to also accept fault
-Last thing I will say for the dynamic is that there is a certain immaturity to the exchange on both sides. There may be a point where you have to discuss how you communicate with each other - not telling the person what to do, but how you feel when you hear x. I have had to be upfront with DH if I feel he is overcritical and he has had to be straightforward if he feels I phrased something to him as I would the kids. In the moment there is an ouch feeling but it’s been important that we are both concious of how we communicate with each other and that we articulate what is upsetting us rather than lash out in anger or silent treatment or ignoring it until it’s a big issue and there is resentment etc. It didn’t come naturally and took work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH is a lot like you, and honestly, it's exhausting. Nobody likes dealing with someone who micromanages, leads from the back, or is a hypocrite. It's not fair to hold him to a higher standard than you hold yourself.

For the lights and budget issues, say that WE need to figure out a solution together, rather than placing it all on him. Saying "you need to do XYZ!" is treating him like a child. Try "hey hon, our electric bill was $XXX last month. I'm going to start turning off lights more, do you have any thoughts on what we can do?" and "we went over our budget by $XXX, let's sit down this weekend and look it over to figure out where we can cut spending".

Ease up on the micromanaging with things like mugs, especially since you also leave clutter out. It's really not fair to make excuses for yourself like "it's contained". Come on, you know that's just a lame excuse.

The micromanaging of social interactions is also annoying. My DH does the same thing. Every time we come home from the social event, he wants to hold a debriefing of everything I said and did wrong. At this point, I just don't go out with him anymore because it's not worth the hassle.

Just ease up on the guy. Decide if the issue is really worth a discussion. And stop telling him he NEEDS to do something, that shows a complete lack of respect and sets up a parent/child dynamic.

This is excellent advice - convey it as “we need to” rather than “can you NOT xyz?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, take this for what it's worth. I'm a marriage therapist and I've been married for 30 years.

It doesn't matter what your husband is doing, you are the one that needs to change because he may never change.

First piece of advice - pick up the mugs yourself and put them in the sink. Don't want to do that? Okay, then be prepared to have this discussion about dirty mugs for another 20 years. This is so easy for you to just take care of, who cares if it's "your" job or "his" job.

Second, if you are going to make an issue of the mugs just use a few words, no need to go on and on since you've probably had this conversation a hundred times.

"I would really appreciate it if you would put your mugs in the sink."

End of discussion. He can retort with whatever he'd like, just say "mmm hmmm" and keep on moving through your day.

Same with the lights example.

The money thing - I believe if their is enough money for the essentials then nobody has any business telling anybody else how to spend money. Again, you may disagree but you wouldn't like it if it was done to you.

And my last piece of advice, stop watching everything he does and says, he's allowed to not be perfect and so are you. Let it go.

This stuff really piles up in a house with an ADHD spouse and parent. It is constant and never-ending and gross.

Life is too short to live in a pigsty or with a pig. Seriously.

You almost have to reconcile it as someone with a disability and then decide if that's the life you want and thats the partner-in-life you want.

I'm the PP and I actually do have an Adhd spouse and child. I don't live in a pig sty, I clean it myself. I just recognize that being in a neat house is important to me and not my spouse. If I sit around waiting for him to change then I will spend my whole life angry.

Just because something is important to you doesn't mean it's important to your spouse. If it's important to you then do it yourself. I'm not discussing what's "fair", I'm just being realistic.

My husband has a thousand other wonderful attributes, I choose to focus on those sound don't get resentful of the housework. I highly recommend this approach,it's a choice to live your life with anger and resentment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think 11:11 has it exactly right. If your dh will go to counseling and work on his core issues, great, but either way I don't think it's reasonable or fair to constantly tell your spouse what they should be doing or not doing. We all do things that annoy other people.

New poster.
Replies like the one above beg the question: So, rather than ask (not tell, ask) her DH to do some minor things that make the whole household work better for everyone in it (not solely for OP), what should OP do, day to day? Be silent and just do those things herself? Pick up his stuff, haul his mugs to the kitchen etc. rather than ask him to deal with his own stuff? Yes, she can find better ways to phrase what she says, and she's open to making that change.

It's easy to say from outside, it's not reasonable to ask him to do this or that. Yet the "this or that" tasks still need to be done, unless OP goes the passive-aggressive route of simply leaving DH's cups and clothes and junk wherever it lies until it piles up. I'm pretty sure her DH eventually would turn on her for doing that too. She can't win.

OP already indicated that the issues are actually bigger than the examples she gave, so it seems clear that these arguments and DH's habit of "Well, I may do X but YOU always do Y" are not just about dirty dishes and clothes. OP, please get marriage counseling. You can learn to communicate with him better too. And see if your DH will get into individual therapy because the way he argues indicated its probably a very deeply ingrained response he probably learned all his life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Use "I" or "we" language. In the lights example, "hey, I noticed our electric bill was really high. I think we're not being very careful abot turning them off. Let's try to do that, ok?"

Second, when he deflects, dont fight back. "Can you not leave your dirty socks on the kitchen table?" "Well, you leave your dirty underwear on the floor of the bathroom!" "yikes, you're right I do, and its gross. Okay, can we both work on this?"

Him "You're spending too much money" You: "oh, alright? Should we go over our budget? Was there a particular charge that is concerning?" [in other words, answer him the way you want to be answered when you complain--perhaps it will change the tone.].

you: "it really bothers me the way you joke about me to your family." Him "well, you cut me off." You: okay it sounds like we need to work on our communication. I'm wondering, though, what's behind makig those jokes? can we talk about it?"


as for all the annoying shit: I finally gave up, decided it was easier to do it myself or not see it. Its annoying and grating, but after multiple times of asking nicely to please close the shower curtain after you use it (not leave it bunched up), please close cabinets you open, pleaese turn off lights, please dont leave socks on the dining room table, etc, etc. that it will never get anywhere, so the only thing I can change is my response.

I came here to say this. It just goes over a lot better. When you say things like "can you clean up your dishes/turn off the lights/spend less", it makes it sound like you are in charge of every decision. Obviously it makes sense to do all of those things but your husband is an adult, and technically he can leave his dishes wherever, leave every light on, and spend as much as he wants. It's not solely up to you to make the rules.