Help me navigate this type of argument or response with my DH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband does something similar. We literally had this convo this morning

Me: can you not leave your running stuff in the entryway? Everyone trips over it when they come in the house.

DH: You leave your bras hanging in the laundry room for weeks!

Me: OK, I'll work on that, but about the running stuff...

OP here and this is the perfect example. I wish I though of it to use but this is exactly what DH does. ALL.THE.TIME. And the point is, that bras hanging in the laundry room (where they are supposed to be) don't have people tripping. That's how our fight goes. I defend (they're not a tripping hazard, it's where they are supposed to dry) and I apologize (what you said in your post). Either way, he keeps going about my bras and our discussion ends up all about my bras!! And his running stuff is not talked about again and he keeps doing it.

Thanks for understanding, pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like "discussions" at my house a lot of the time. I try to a) choose my battles and b) time it carefully. Unless it's something egregious, if he's not in a mood where he'll be receptive, I wait until a better time. It's BS, but that's what I do.

Somewhere in his childhood he developed a bad habit where he prefers to DEFLECT responsibility or START AN ARGUMENT / ATTACK OTHERS instead of address the issue (his issue) at hand.

I would suggest counseling for this because it is ingrained and sensitive to men's egos. You do not want your children thinking this is A+ role modeling, it is terrible and destructive (to relationships and trust and communication).

He needs to work on answering questions and taking responsibility for his actions. Then internalizing them and improving himself.
You will need to remember to overly politely make requests, point things out, be positive more than negative.


I will add that this deflection and arguing habit is a SECOND ORDER CONDITION of something else. The first order condition is his constant forgetfulness, errors, carelessness, immaturity. He needs to get it together. Best case this is ADHD Inattentive and he can get help remembering and organizing things in his life in a way that works for him. Worst case is he is lazy, stupid, misogynist, narcissistic, or all of the above.

This is Op and thank you for explaining this. it makes perfect sense. He actually does have ADD and I see it in other ways (always losing keys, never finishing projects, starting one task and moving on to another and another, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband does something similar. We literally had this convo this morning

Me: can you not leave your running stuff in the entryway? Everyone trips over it when they come in the house.

DH: You leave your bras hanging in the laundry room for weeks!

Me: OK, I'll work on that, but about the running stuff...

OP here and this is the perfect example. I wish I though of it to use but this is exactly what DH does. ALL.THE.TIME. And the point is, that bras hanging in the laundry room (where they are supposed to be) don't have people tripping. That's how our fight goes. I defend (they're not a tripping hazard, it's where they are supposed to dry) and I apologize (what you said in your post). Either way, he keeps going about my bras and our discussion ends up all about my bras!! And his running stuff is not talked about again and he keeps doing it.

Thanks for understanding, pp.

You're welcome, and I don't think you're being hypocritical at all. My husband is a great guy and we have a good relationship overall - I think like a pp said it's about him feeling attacked, so maybe there's a different way to phrase it. I totally hear you though!

[Anonymous]

it's all about you, isn't it OP. you are such a saint and feel that you should be revered and obeyed by your husband.

grow the F up. you are a nag and a hypocrite. stop badgering him and maybe, just maybe, you'll come to realize you need to first lead by example. Then take control over the things that bother you - by taking action and doing things yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it's all about you, isn't it OP. you are such a saint and feel that you should be revered and obeyed by your husband.

grow the F up. you are a nag and a hypocrite. stop badgering him and maybe, just maybe, you'll come to realize you need to first lead by example. Then take control over the things that bother you - by taking action and doing things yourself.

OP here and actually, no, I'm not a saint to be revered and obeyed by DH. there are plenty of times where he brings up stuff I do that bothers him but I either apologize and try not to do it again, defend it if its defensible, or listen to his vent and understand where he's coming from. I don't turn the tables back on him.

[Anonymous]

I hate to use an over-used term, but my DH does this as a way of gaslighting me. Whenever I bring up a really serious issue he turns it around on me, and refuses to discuss what I brought up. It's super infuriating because I KNOW that I have my own role and my own issues. But, they are very different from DHs. I'll bring up something specific about DH and he'll attempt to completely deflect by claiming I do the same thing (which I don't.) I call him out on it, but we still don't have anything approaching a productive conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like "discussions" at my house a lot of the time. I try to a) choose my battles and b) time it carefully. Unless it's something egregious, if he's not in a mood where he'll be receptive, I wait until a better time. It's BS, but that's what I do.

Somewhere in his childhood he developed a bad habit where he prefers to DEFLECT responsibility or START AN ARGUMENT / ATTACK OTHERS instead of address the issue (his issue) at hand.

I would suggest counseling for this because it is ingrained and sensitive to men's egos. You do not want your children thinking this is A+ role modeling, it is terrible and destructive (to relationships and trust and communication).

He needs to work on answering questions and taking responsibility for his actions. Then internalizing them and improving himself.
You will need to remember to overly politely make requests, point things out, be positive more than negative.


I will add that this deflection and arguing habit is a SECOND ORDER CONDITION of something else. The first order condition is his constant forgetfulness, errors, carelessness, immaturity. He needs to get it together. Best case this is ADHD Inattentive and he can get help remembering and organizing things in his life in a way that works for him. Worst case is he is lazy, stupid, misogynist, narcissistic, or all of the above.

This is Op and thank you for explaining this. it makes perfect sense. He actually does have ADD and I see it in other ways (always losing keys, never finishing projects, starting one task and moving on to another and another, etc.)

No marital conversation that starts with "Why do you always ___?" or "Can you not ____?" is going to go anywhere positive. It sounds like your frustration is breaking through in the moment, and you're dumping it on him. He doesn't like it, so he uses petty fighting in response, and nobody's happy.

Double this dynamic because he has ADD--he's both way more likely to leave a mess *and* way more likely to be super-defensive about it.

You both need to take a step back as a couple (possibly in counseling) to figure out how to deal with this situation more rationally and usefully.

If he's doing nothing to treat his ADD, whether through therapy/coaching and/or meds, that's a problem too. But these in the moment kinds of arguments aren't going to fix the systemic issue you two have.

[Anonymous]

I think 11:11 has it exactly right. If your dh will go to counseling and work on his core issues, great, but either way I don't think it's reasonable or fair to constantly tell your spouse what they should be doing or not doing. We all do things that annoy other people.

[Anonymous]

You sound like you are nagging him, and you do the same things. Stop nagging and stop cleaning up after him.

[Anonymous]

My DH is a lot like you, and honestly, it's exhausting. Nobody likes dealing with someone who micromanages, leads from the back, or is a hypocrite. It's not fair to hold him to a higher standard than you hold yourself.

For the lights and budget issues, say that WE need to figure out a solution together, rather than placing it all on him. Saying "you need to do XYZ!" is treating him like a child. Try "hey hon, our electric bill was $XXX last month. I'm going to start turning off lights more, do you have any thoughts on what we can do?" and "we went over our budget by $XXX, let's sit down this weekend and look it over to figure out where we can cut spending".

Ease up on the micromanaging with things like mugs, especially since you also leave clutter out. It's really not fair to make excuses for yourself like "it's contained". Come on, you know that's just a lame excuse.

The micromanaging of social interactions is also annoying. My DH does the same thing. Every time we come home from the social event, he wants to hold a debriefing of everything I said and did wrong. At this point, I just don't go out with him anymore because it's not worth the hassle.

Just ease up on the guy. Decide if the issue is really worth a discussion. And stop telling him he NEEDS to do something, that shows a complete lack of respect and sets up a parent/child dynamic.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like you are holding him to a higher standard than you hold yourself. Why would you ask him to stop doing something if he can tell you right back that you haven’t yet made an effort to stop doing that same thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you need to stop being a hypocrite...?

Completely agree. Since you’re apparently also at fault, don’t start out accusing him of doing things wrong. Say, our electric bill was really high last month. I’m going to try to be better about turning things off. Will you, too?” Instead, you go at him like you do, when you’re in no place to point any fingers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you need to stop being a hypocrite...?

Completely agree. Since you’re apparently also at fault, don’t start out accusing him of doing things wrong. Say, our electric bill was really high last month. I’m going to try to be better about turning things off. Will you, too?” Instead, you go at him like you do, when you’re in no place to point any fingers.

I agree with this approach. If it's an issue that you both have responsibility for say that it looks like X is an issue and maybe we can both take steps to work on it.

[Anonymous]

OP, take this for what it's worth. I'm a marriage therapist and I've been married for 30 years.

It doesn't matter what your husband is doing, you are the one that needs to change because he may never change.

First piece of advice - pick up the mugs yourself and put them in the sink. Don't want to do that? Okay, then be prepared to have this discussion about dirty mugs for another 20 years. This is so easy for you to just take care of, who cares if it's "your" job or "his" job.

Second, if you are going to make an issue of the mugs just use a few words, no need to go on and on since you've probably had this conversation a hundred times.

"I would really appreciate it if you would put your mugs in the sink."

End of discussion. He can retort with whatever he'd like, just say "mmm hmmm" and keep on moving through your day.

Same with the lights example.

The money thing - I believe if their is enough money for the essentials then nobody has any business telling anybody else how to spend money. Again, you may disagree but you wouldn't like it if it was done to you.

And my last piece of advice, stop watching everything he does and says, he's allowed to not be perfect and so are you. Let it go.

[Anonymous]

I have a rule for myself that if it takes me less than 30 seconds, then I just do it and forget about it. If DH regularly walks all over the house in muddy boots, then I say something. But if he leaves his shoes in the kitchen instead of in the rack by the door, then I just move them to the door. Getting annoyed about tiny things all of the time was killing my marriage.