Should I leave or agree to counseling first?
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Anonymous
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OP, what kind of abuse did DH suffer as a child? If he was sexually abused, his interest in viewing child pornography or bestiality may be a subconscious attempt to reprocess the victimizing sex that he experienced as a child by confronting a similar dynamic indirectly, in a "safe" context where he feels like he is in control. The fact that he says he views porn when he's angry strikes me as a sign that the habit is about sorting out feelings of victimization rather than feeling attraction to children or animals.
You would be entirely justified in leaving, of course. However, if you love your DH and want to try to save your family, you need to talk to a therapist who specializes in PTSD arising out of childhood sexual abuse, preferably male on male. The therapist can help you understand what is going on and can also treat your husband or refer him out. It will take years of counseling for your DH, and possibly medication to ease the anger and treat the obsessive thinking, but he can beat this. Do not separate unless you are sure you want to divorce. Separation causes people to grow apart, and where kids are involved, it creates a whole new set of issues to further strain an already strained relationship. |
Anonymous
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NP here WOW, above posting and the following pasted is some incredible insight. I see myself in there with the (legal) addiction. Who ever took the time to post this information ......... Thank You. You're a good person. OP. I'm sorry to tell you that if your husband has a long history of this, it is unlikely he will be able to stop without highly professional help and a long period of self-work. Meanwhile, you and your kids are exposed to the negative consequences of his behavior. I know you think he is a good guy and a good father, and in one sense he probably is. But, you have to be honest with yourself and acknowledge that he has no ability to control himself, which means that even if he is a good guy who is just being driven to make these bad decisions, he doesn't have the capacity to control or stop himself. It's impossible to live healthily in an environment like that. I have been in a situation somewhat similar to yours. First, while it's good that your DH is open to counseling, it is really important that he get screened by a highly experienced psychiatrist who regularly treats mood-disordered patients. The psychiatrist you choose must be open to incorporating family participation/reporting in treatment, per the best practices treatment guidelines. People who have mood disorders and addictions are notorious for not accurately reporting their moods and behaviors to health professionals, thus making treatment ineffective (or worse, making treatment a danger because the psychiatrist prescribes the wrong meds based on a wrong diagnosis because of the inaccurate self-report of the patient). Sexual compulsions can be part of a mania or hypomania. They can also be a self-medicating type of response to anxiety or depression or PTSD. Do the research, pick 3 qualified people and let DH make the final choice. It's good that your DH is open to counseling, but, if he has a mood disorder or anxiety or PTSD, then he may not be able to benefit from counseling or attain the required degree of self-control necessary for life, unless he is stabilized on medications first. IME, I would not agree to counseling only. I would make seeing a psychiatrist regularly a non-negotiable condition of your DH continuing to have any kind of relationship with you, whether he remains in the house or you split up. Counseling as well. Looking back on my situation, there is a dilemma. If you keep DH in the house while he is going thru the process of seeing the psych and meds, then you may have more insight into what is truly driving his issues and thus be able to make better decisions for you and the kids. You will also have more time to document his behavior for potential custody decision (and you should be documenting every thing now -- credit cards, mobile phone, key logger on the computer, records of any video downloads/purchases, time spent with kids, potential exposure of behavior to kids, etc.) The downside is that it is incredibly emotionally stressful for all of you (kids included, because they sense the tension even if they don't understand exactly what is going on). If you continue to stay together, you are also exposing yourself to the consequences of his behavior (legal and financial consequences, kids stumbling across something, etc.) You will also have to weigh all of the above against your physical needs due to the pregnancy. Are you working? Do you have maternity leave? Start to expand your network of friends to help you. Girlfriends who babysit? Another mom or family you can exchange babysitting with? A babysitting coop? Access to full-time daycare for the kids? You need to be in a position to raise your kids on your own. In my situation, my ex agreed to full custody to me with frequent visits with the kids for him. He is able to hold himself together for a few hours where he has no real responsibility for them. This is a better arrangement for everyone, even though I wish he could be more of a father. I know many people will tell you that it is your obligation to "work on the marriage" and "help your ill spouse" and question whether you have some role in creating a "marriage that has a hole that your DH needs to fill". But, the reality is that his issues are not your responsibility. You have neither the skill nor the power to heal him. He has to be willing to do that alone. You might also want to try SA-anon for yourself (Sex Addiction 12 step group for family members of those with SA and sort of like Al-Anon.) |
Anonymous
OP, do not say what kind of porn. There are too many people that would/could track you down and ruin your family's life. If your husband has been clean for 10 yrs and getting help, leave it at that. If you suspect the illegal stuff and can prove it ......... turn him in and scatdoodle. I a couple of times, out of probably several millions times (lol) of porn surfing, had underage children porn pages pop up out of no where. Each time it made me sick / stressed out / panic stricken all at the same time. OMG, such disgusting stuff. It's just hard to even think about. |
Anonymous
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It sounds like this guy really likes porn! And you can call that an addiction if you want, but in my opinion there isn't anything actually wrong with watching LEGAL porn.
But given your history together, it seems this marriage may be unsalvageable. His previous history (over a decade ago with illegal porn) remains forever in your mind, and you seem to have a general aversion to porn, let alone his hardcode tastes, so I find this combination of factors to make it VERY unlikely that you and he could ever find a good solution that works for everyone and includes a normal sex life between you. The likelyhood of him stopping ALL porn usage is pretty small. The likelyhood of you ever trusting that his porn is limited to your list of acceptable content is about zero. The likelyhood of you 2 having a decent sex life together (regardless of porn) sounds pretty low also. Sorry to say this but I think it is best for each of you to move on to a compatible partner. |
Anonymous
| OP here. DH and I spoke with my sister (who is a lot younger than me) last night and I do feel that there is a generational gap issue here. She also doesn't feel the types of porn he views is wrong even with the questionable things he is looking at as long as it is legal. She has made some suggestions of therapists based on her experiences. My original issue wasn't him watching porn but the fact that he was watching porn (though legal) that disturbed him too because he wanted to do something he felt was wrong to address his anger issues. We have no problems watching porn together though the difficult pregnancy has made that impossible. However, watching a lot of porn desensitizes him to the point that he is not interested in interacting with me. We both have addictive personalities (me with alcohol to cope with issues (don't worry, not during pregnancy)) and we both need help. |
Anonymous
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There is a lot that is troubling here OP. Certainly, DH anger and coping mechanism for that anger-to do something he feels is socially trangressive. You need to be certain that when he's under even more stress with a wife on bedrest and a toddler that he won't seek more extreme coping mechanism-like sexually touching a child.
I am reading in your posts a lot of minimizing of DH's actions and proclivities, both from you and from DH. That could be simply because you're trying not to reveal too much on the internet, which is smart. But overall when I read your posts, I am very concerned about the safety of your kids. In response to your original question, I think you should do a trial separation, with the understanding that if DH can deal with his issues and commit to treatment, you will reconcile. Could one of your parents come and move in with you for the rest of your pregnancy? |
Anonymous
| OP here...to the PP. I know a lot of people question whether I really know about illegal stuff and trust me I know. We work together and we commute together. He never spends time away from the family. I am a computer/cyber expert so I know about our computers/phone (which I have access to all of them). I monitor all our finances anyways and all our money is pulled together and I do weekly budget checks of all accounts (including credit card and cash usage). I am not trying to minimize his porn addiction issues but I also don't want it to seem like that I would not be able to tell if there are other illegal issues. |
Anonymous
| OP when you say your DH "got into trouble" due to his porn viewing when he was younger-was that trouble at work, trouble in his family, or trouble with police? Was he ever charged? |
Anonymous
| OP here. He got in trouble lately because of what happened over a decade ago due to his need to confess what he did over a decade ago during a high level security clearance interview. He was also very sick that day (our whole family had the stomach flu) and his interviewer still wanted to interview him even though he said he wasn't feeling well. He was very incoherent during the interview (I know because he was incoherent when he left for the interview). Also, it felt like the interviewer was coaxing him with certain questions and told him to confess everything he has ever done that may affect the clearance. The interviewer told him that it would not affect his clearance and that this will help them understand him. He did not get that clearance and we are appealing it so that it doesn't affect his current clearance. He has never gotten into any legal trouble. I was very upset last summer about this whole situation and I asked him not to look at any porn just so that none of it can come back to hurt the appeal process and he agreed at the time. Later, he started looking at porn again and the though legal but disturbing porn. This is why I said he has a porn addiction problem and this is the trouble he got into. |
Anonymous
Do you have an attorney who specializes in security clearances working with you on the appeal? If not, you need one. If he had a security clearance on the basis of an interview where he was asked a question that should have prompted him to disclose this, then that will be a major impediment for him keeping the old clearance, let alone getting the new one. You need serious legal counsel. Your legal counsel should also be advising you/him about your spouse seeing a counselor and psychiatrist and how much of that is disclosable and whether seeing someone will help or hurt the appeal (should help, particularly if it is framed in the right way). Porn addiction is a serious problem, both in the sense that he couldn't stop himself from doing viewing something that, even if legal, could affect his ability to generate income to survive. It's a separate, but different, problem that the kind of porn he is viewing is negatively affecting his sexual behavior and thus your relationship with him. |
Anonymous
| OP here...to the PP. We went to see several counsels after we received the letter explaining the denial but all of them said because of the agency involved and the reason for denial, there is such a low likelihood for an appeal that they don't want to take the case. He doesn't actually work for that agency and they just handle that level of clearance for agency. He doesn't even need that clearance any more. We looked back at the SF86 he filled out for his current clearance and none of it would have triggered the questions the CIA asked therefore he was completely truthful in his current SF86. We are still waiting for the investigative file and what we hope to do is not actually appeal it such that he gets the high level clearance but to (I don't know if this the right words) remove the whole application so that it is not actually a denial. At least, they should clean up any language in the investigative file and letter to reflect the facts and not what the interviewer interpreted during my husband's delusional state (given his illness at the time). |
Anonymous
| *not get the high level clearance but to... |
Anonymous
Are you saying that the interviewer interpreted something in a way that your husband didn't mean it? Or are you saying that your husband said something which the investigator accurately interpreted, but that what your husband said was incorrect/delusional, because he was ill and therefore said something untrue? Or are you saying that your husband was so ill, that he let something slip that he wouldn't have let slip if he had not been ill? Or are you saying that your husband misinterpreted the investigator's question and thus responded in a way that let slip something he didn't really have to reveal? Of those 4 choices, only the first two are to your benefit and might get a change in info in the file (because you are challenging incorrect info). If the situation is one of the last two, it is accurate info and going to be hard to keep out of the file. It seems that your main concern is keeping the current security clearance so that DH can continue to work at his current income level, not whether the appeal of the new clearance will be successful. It is to your benefit to have counsel to help you prepare any filing or letter you send regarding what is in the file and the current clearance level. |
Anonymous
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OP, my stbx had a porn addiction and a drug addiction and a lying addiction. And he became an extremely abusive nasty toxic human being and is a liar to the core. There was nothing to save. I stuck it out because he was a childhood friend. But I had to protect my daughter.
This is HIS PROBLEM. You didnt know what you were getting into. NOW YOU KNOW. You cannot have your kids growing up around him, you know this already. Its a terrible terrible place to be but trust me when I say if you jump ship now you will NOT REGRET IT DOWN THE LINE. |
Anonymous
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Did you know he was addicted to child porn before you had a kid with him?
Wtf?ugh |