Christmas Trees

[Anonymous]

"as sexual as" should read "as secular as"

As one point of reference re: secularization of the menorah:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/persecution/about-those-secular-menorahs.html

Right or wrong it is happening.

[Anonymous]

There is also a family decision to be made as to whether you want to teach the secularization of holidays (and related symbols) or teach one's children that they should be afforded deeper meaning. These are only simple decisions if you have a firm point of view already, and no one with such a view should tell someone else who is sorting it all out (or has another prospective) that this is easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a tree people. A decoration. Not a symbol of faith if you don't want it to be. In other words you dont need to feel threatened by this.
If a non-Jew posted similar concern about a Menorah all hell would break loose on here - it would be seen as anti-semetic and i think we all know this.
Op, your kids won't be less Jewish because of a tree in the house. They will probably love it. Enjoy the holidays (all of them)!

Christianity is the majority religion/culture in this country--as it is in many other places. Being a part of a minority religion/culture can make one more sensitive to losing traditions due to assimilation. I'm Jewish and in an interfaith marriage with a pre-determined decision to have a Jewish household and to raise our children Jewish, and we also compromise by having garland and lights (including dreidle lights!) but no tree. That said--the Catholic SD changes things up a bit. Growing up, we always helped our Christian family members celebrate Christmas by joining them for Christmas day, opening presents from under the tree, etc and it was always clear that it was their holiday and not ours--but we were celebrating with family because we love them. It's a trickier context here because it's in OP's own house, but I think the same argument/distinction can be made. I do understand the struggle and discomfort, but I think that the SD should be able to celebrate in her own home as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: It is different. A shelf in a fridge is an accommodation. A six foot tree in a living room with decorations and lights is a statement in some way about the owners of the home. There is no way around that even if different folks have different ideas as to what statement it makes. My guess is this situation was not contemplated by OP and DH. SD is 18, OP and DH have been involved 10 years. We don't why SD moved in or how long she will stay, we don't know the ages of OPs kids. For many Jews -- obviously not all -- part of their identiy is not signalling they may be something else; not assimilating beyond a certain point in a dominant Christian society. I am not religous - I am a bit spiritual -- but I am definitely Jewish culturally and in my identity and the thought of having a tree in the house when my kids
were small was something I would not do (I may be able to contemplate a small one now that my kids are older for the reasons others above note). There are many more important ways OP can make SD comfortable and feel loved
without a tree. This gets back to the other kids' ages and whatever deal OP and DH struck in their marriage. They can change the deal, of course, for SD's benefit, but know that the tree could have other family consequences. Do OP's kids acknowledge Christmas at home now at all or not? Gifts? If kids are older and OP wants to expose them more to Christmas and show respect for SD, she can take the family to mass on Christmas. Or the family can do volunteer work on Christmas for children or the elderly. There are many better ways to show an embracing of the Christmas spirit for the whole family than cutting down a tree this first year with SD.

Step mom refusing to let stepdaughter have her Christmas tree is anything but making step daughter feel comfortable and loved. In fact, it is the complete opposite and sends a clear message that this is NOT stepdaughter's home and her traditions are not welcome in the family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: It is different. A shelf in a fridge is an accommodation. A six foot tree in a living room with decorations and lights is a statement in some way about the owners of the home. There is no way around that even if different folks have different ideas as to what statement it makes. My guess is this situation was not contemplated by OP and DH. SD is 18, OP and DH have been involved 10 years. We don't why SD moved in or how long she will stay, we don't know the ages of OPs kids. For many Jews -- obviously not all -- part of their identiy is not signalling they may be something else; not assimilating beyond a certain point in a dominant Christian society. I am not religous - I am a bit spiritual -- but I am definitely Jewish culturally and in my identity and the thought of having a tree in the house when my kids
were small was something I would not do (I may be able to contemplate a small one now that my kids are older for the reasons others above note). There are many more important ways OP can make SD comfortable and feel loved
without a tree. This gets back to the other kids' ages and whatever deal OP and DH struck in their marriage. They can change the deal, of course, for SD's benefit, but know that the tree could have other family consequences. Do OP's kids acknowledge Christmas at home now at all or not? Gifts? If kids are older and OP wants to expose them more to Christmas and show respect for SD, she can take the family to mass on Christmas. Or the family can do volunteer work on Christmas for children or the elderly. There are many better ways to show an embracing of the Christmas spirit for the whole family than cutting down a tree this first year with SD.

Does anyone else find it ironic that this poster seems to think that step daughter taking the family with her to Mass is less religious than step daughter being allowed to have a secular Christmas tree in her own home?

[Anonymous]

SD is 18. With any luck she'll graduate from college and find a place of her own (maybe with roommates). This might be a short term proposition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess for me, as a Jewish person, the difference comes down to participating in someone else's holiday vs actually celebrating. Our household, as well as many other Jewish households, don't have a tree because we would consider that as celebrating the holiday of Christmas. However, I'd have zero issue being invited to someone else's house to share in their holiday traditions. However, now you are talking about having the tradition actually occurring in your home. This can be confusing for younger kids.

I'm also a stepmom, so I understand how this is a tricky situation. Your stepdaughter is now part of the household, and she's not Jewish. So, she should be able to have her own traditions. It's not going to be the same as if she were living in a completely Christian house. But perhaps you can discuss with your husband how the holiday can be special and personal for your stepdaughter while still clearly being cultural sharing, rather than celebrating for your kids.

Maybe your husband and his daughter buy the tree and decorate the tree. Maybe on Christmas there is a special meal, she gets gifts, but your whole family gathers while she opens them. Then on Hanukah, the little kids get their gifts and she can participate in the meal and just watch the menorah lighting


Just throwing some stuff out there. But mainly just approaching this as sharing each other's traditions.

I agree with almost all this post. The only part I would not be comfortable with is a large tree in the house. To me, that is celebrating the holiday. However, if SD wanted a tree in her room, or a small table top tree in her room, that would be fine. I think celebrating with special meals and gifts is a more meaningful cultural exchange.

For years, I was the only Jew in shared apartments with roommates who celebrated Christmas. They went full out with the trees and the decorating, and I celebrated my traditions in my own space...except when it came to latke baking night. Everyone loves a good latke and this was our cultural exchange. Point is, sure, it was my home too, but the prevailing culture was a Christmas celebrating culture and I didn't try to change the culture of the home to accommodate me. The SD moved into a Jewish home and it is unreasonable for her to change the fundamental culture of the home to enjoy her traditions.

My larger question is why on earth is your DH speculating about Christmas tree placement in July? That's just plain weird.

[Anonymous]

"Does anyone else find it ironic that this poster seems to think that step daughter taking the family with her to Mass is less religious than step daughter being allowed to have a secular Christmas tree in her own home?"


Actually, it isn't so ironic necessarily. As I said - depends on kids ages. I would agree if the kids are 5 years old. But at 12 - very different. Going to mass once per year to understand your older step siblings background is like going to another relative's house to see their tree at Christmas. Very different than in the home. Several above posters draw the distinction.

[Anonymous]

"Step mom refusing to let stepdaughter have her Christmas tree is anything but making step daughter feel comfortable and loved. In fact, it is the complete opposite and sends a clear message that this is NOT stepdaughter's home and her traditions are not welcome in the family."

It is a difficult situation, and fact specific. If H had prior custody and raising his DD with a tree and then remarried and step mom banned it,of course I would agree with above poster that should make SD feel rejected. But, that is not OP's situation. Would you feel it is OK for SD to eat ham and shrimp in the house if those are her favorite foods? I was a kid whose mother remarried a man who kept a kosher home. Although I was raised Jewish, I knew almost niching about this -- no ice cream / dairy after dinner with meat, no milk in coffee, confusing rules about dishes, schlepping to orthodox services that were entirely in Hebrew that meant nothing to me, etc. BUT, NEVER for a moment did I not feel completely loved and welcomed by my stepfather. I had my issues with my mother for marrying him-- i did not like the rules -- and perhaps the SD will have
issues with her father marrying OP, but an 18 year old has to realize you don't walk into a home you have never lived in and expect the rules to change for you especially when there are younger children being raised differently. Frankly, I suspect this is much about Dad's belated guilt trip relating to not living with his daughter - assuming likely because of a divorce-- and I suspect this is much less important to the SD. I get that Christmas is a wonderful warm holiday and trees can be great, but an 18 year old should get it also if OP does not want to go there. Focusing here on OP's situation. Details matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Step mom refusing to let stepdaughter have her Christmas tree is anything but making step daughter feel comfortable and loved. In fact, it is the complete opposite and sends a clear message that this is NOT stepdaughter's home and her traditions are not welcome in the family."

It is a difficult situation, and fact specific. If H had prior custody and raising his DD with a tree and then remarried and step mom banned it,of course I would agree with above poster that should make SD feel rejected. But, that is not OP's situation. Would you feel it is OK for SD to eat ham and shrimp in the house if those are her favorite foods? I was a kid whose mother remarried a man who kept a kosher home. Although I was raised Jewish, I knew almost niching about this -- no ice cream / dairy after dinner with meat, no milk in coffee, confusing rules about dishes, schlepping to orthodox services that were entirely in Hebrew that meant nothing to me, etc. BUT, NEVER for a moment did I not feel completely loved and welcomed by my stepfather. I had my issues with my mother for marrying him-- i did not like the rules -- and perhaps the SD will have
issues with her father marrying OP, but an 18 year old has to realize you don't walk into a home you have never lived in and expect the rules to change for you especially when there are younger children being raised differently. Frankly, I suspect this is much about Dad's belated guilt trip relating to not living with his daughter - assuming likely because of a divorce-- and I suspect this is much less important to the SD. I get that Christmas is a wonderful warm holiday and trees can be great, but an 18 year old should get it also if OP does not want to go there. Focusing here on OP's situation. Details matter.


How did you get all of this from OP's post? Honestly I had the sense she was not flat out banning the tree but rather trying to get comfortable with it. Not sure we have any real details about why SD is now living there, and what her circumstances are (ie: will she celebrate separately with her mom's family or is whatever she does with her dad the only celebration she gets). Details def matter but I don't think we know any of the relevant ones here ...

[Anonymous]

The good news is that the SD is old enough to have a conversation about this. I would lead with "Since you are living with us, we want you to feel welcome and like your traditions have value in this house. Is having a Christmas tree important to you?"

[Anonymous]

I wasn't suggesting any new facts to the OPs post, only really responding to the suggestion that based on what OP said somehow if the tree wasn't permitted it would be sending this terrible negative message to the SD. My point was only that if OP wasn't comfortable with the tree -- and I agree the original post seemed like she was trying to sort it all out -- she should not fear being viewed as some fairy tale wicked step-mother.

[Anonymous]

OP here- thanks everyone for sharing your opinions. SD moved in with us to attend college. We don't know how long she will live with us before moving onto the next phase of her adult life.

She has taken the kids to mass with her. I don't have any issues with my children being exposed to her religion. For Christmas, I don't know if she will go to her moms or not. I would think that she would at least for dec 24 or 25th, but that's just a guess.

I think for me the tree is such an enormous symbol. I have neighbors that move furniture each year to accommodate their trees. I have no issues if she puts any size tree in her room. It's the idea of putting it in the living room--front and center that is giving me pause.

To the poster that asked why DH was thinking about this in July-- I have no idea why but I'm glad he brought it up early. I would not like to have this conversation with him in early Dec.

[Anonymous]

OP - just wanted to say I think you sound very reasonable and I am sure your SD will appreciate that you gave this some serious thought rather than reacting emotionally first. Given the situation, it sounds like you, your DH, and your SD need to have a chat about what would make everyone comfortable (and what everyone actually wants - it's not clear that anyone actually wants a tree). My guess is that if her mom's house is still technically "home" she'll be fine decorating and having a tree there and not expect a big tree in your home, especially if you're willing to find other ways to accommodate her (which it sounds like you are and you have).

[Anonymous]

Growing up, I had a Jewish friend and they used to put up a "Hanukkah Bush". It was a small tree with blue lights. There was no religious significance.