Christmas Trees

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally agree that the rigidity is coming from the Jewish perspective.

But, as I understand it, its stemming from a culture that is very sensitive to accommodation and assimilation as part of its history. This thread has been very interesting to me and I guess I never really got that, but part of Judaism is adamantly NOT being whatever the majority religion is. As a Christian this hasn't ever been part of my cultural past or heritage. But I can see how it very much is a part of the Jewish culture. I guess it sounds like putting up a tree to some feels like something is being taken away.

I don't entirely buy this. I am a Catholic and I don't feel so in line with fellow Christians on a lot of issues. I think religious identities are a fairly nuanced spectrum.

Our family has had the pleasure of hosting a young jewish latin american -- the son of a family friend -- for a year. We enjoyed trying to mark the jewish holidays with him. I certainly don't think that took away from or devalued our Christian home in any way. On the contrary, I think it's entirely consistent with Judeo Christian values.

I will say that I understand the pride of folks in their identities and wanting to resist "assimilation." But while I see a mixed marriage has perhaps challenging this, I don't see how making a young woman -- the husband's daughter -- welcome in the home is any sort of risk for these boys. And I suspect she'd be just fine with a small tree.

So great to have the Catholic perspective on what it means to be Jewish!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally agree that the rigidity is coming from the Jewish perspective.

But, as I understand it, its stemming from a culture that is very sensitive to accommodation and assimilation as part of its history. This thread has been very interesting to me and I guess I never really got that, but part of Judaism is adamantly NOT being whatever the majority religion is. As a Christian this hasn't ever been part of my cultural past or heritage. But I can see how it very much is a part of the Jewish culture. I guess it sounds like putting up a tree to some feels like something is being taken away.

I don't entirely buy this. I am a Catholic and I don't feel so in line with fellow Christians on a lot of issues. I think religious identities are a fairly nuanced spectrum.

Our family has had the pleasure of hosting a young jewish latin american -- the son of a family friend -- for a year. We enjoyed trying to mark the jewish holidays with him. I certainly don't think that took away from or devalued our Christian home in any way. On the contrary, I think it's entirely consistent with Judeo Christian values.

I will say that I understand the pride of folks in their identities and wanting to resist "assimilation." But while I see a mixed marriage has perhaps challenging this, I don't see how making a young woman -- the husband's daughter -- welcome in the home is any sort of risk for these boys. And I suspect she'd be just fine with a small tree.

So great to have the Catholic perspective on what it means to be Jewish!

Someone who really doesn't get it.

[Anonymous]

Getting back to the OP - if she is still reading ... It sounds like a complicated situation leading to the SD moving in. This is about more than a tree if i am interpreting correctly. I think the Op should do right by this newcomer to the house. Maybe a tree is appropriate. Not because of this identity or that but for good family relationships. My advice - as a fellow step-parent - don't worry so much about the meaning of the the tree as it relates to your Jewishness. Worry about something more important (i hope) that would be your relationship with DH and the SD who was in the picture before you came along. Trust me OP, put these relationships above all. I've been there. I think you already know this.

[Anonymous]

OP's husband married a Jew, committed to raising Jewish children and lives in a Jewish home. Everyone who opines on how OP married a Christian and that means she has to live in an interfaith household and accommodate non-Jewish traditions are simply wrong. OP's home is a Jewish one and she is well within her rights to live in her Jewish home as she wishes. Her SD is a new and very welcomed guest in her home, but if there is any accommodation required, it is from the SD, who is not living in a Christian home.

To everyone who thinks trees are no big deal and that OP should just "compromise" by allowing a tree in her home, you just don't get it. For many Jews, a Christmas tree is a huge Christian symbol and they believe that this symbol has no place in a Jewish home. There is nothing wrong with that belief. It isn't a compromise to allow a tree just because you, the dominant culture, think it is a fine secular thing. It doesn't matter what you think. For many Jews, it is not at all a secular thing and it is a big deal and there is nothing wrong in that.

OP is trying, correctly so, in my opinion, to make everyone, including her Christian SD, comfortable in her home. A small tree in some area of her home is a very generous accommodation. Anything else that feels like it compromises her Jewish home is not appropriate.

OP's husband is a lucky man for having such a thoughtful spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP's husband married a Jew, committed to raising Jewish children and lives in a Jewish home. Everyone who opines on how OP married a Christian and that means she has to live in an interfaith household and accommodate non-Jewish traditions are simply wrong. OP's home is a Jewish one and she is well within her rights to live in her Jewish home as she wishes. Her SD is a new and very welcomed guest in her home, but if there is any accommodation required, it is from the SD, who is not living in a Christian home.

To everyone who thinks trees are no big deal and that OP should just "compromise" by allowing a tree in her home, you just don't get it. For many Jews, a Christmas tree is a huge Christian symbol and they believe that this symbol has no place in a Jewish home. There is nothing wrong with that belief. It isn't a compromise to allow a tree just because you, the dominant culture, think it is a fine secular thing. It doesn't matter what you think. For many Jews, it is not at all a secular thing and it is a big deal and there is nothing wrong in that.

OP is trying, correctly so, in my opinion, to make everyone, including her Christian SD, comfortable in her home. A small tree in some area of her home is a very generous accommodation. Anything else that feels like it compromises her Jewish home is not appropriate.

OP's husband is a lucky man for having such a thoughtful spouse.

OP's husband's child is a guest in the house? It's not her home even though she's living htere? I guess that makes OP's step-daughter homeless, which is pretty crappy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's husband married a Jew, committed to raising Jewish children and lives in a Jewish home. Everyone who opines on how OP married a Christian and that means she has to live in an interfaith household and accommodate non-Jewish traditions are simply wrong. OP's home is a Jewish one and she is well within her rights to live in her Jewish home as she wishes. Her SD is a new and very welcomed guest in her home, but if there is any accommodation required, it is from the SD, who is not living in a Christian home.

To everyone who thinks trees are no big deal and that OP should just "compromise" by allowing a tree in her home, you just don't get it. For many Jews, a Christmas tree is a huge Christian symbol and they believe that this symbol has no place in a Jewish home. There is nothing wrong with that belief. It isn't a compromise to allow a tree just because you, the dominant culture, think it is a fine secular thing. It doesn't matter what you think. For many Jews, it is not at all a secular thing and it is a big deal and there is nothing wrong in that.

OP is trying, correctly so, in my opinion, to make everyone, including her Christian SD, comfortable in her home. A small tree in some area of her home is a very generous accommodation. Anything else that feels like it compromises her Jewish home is not appropriate.

OP's husband is a lucky man for having such a thoughtful spouse.

OP's husband's child is a guest in the house? It's not her home even though she's living htere? I guess that makes OP's step-daughter homeless, which is pretty crappy.

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's husband married a Jew, committed to raising Jewish children and lives in a Jewish home. Everyone who opines on how OP married a Christian and that means she has to live in an interfaith household and accommodate non-Jewish traditions are simply wrong. OP's home is a Jewish one and she is well within her rights to live in her Jewish home as she wishes. Her SD is a new and very welcomed guest in her home, but if there is any accommodation required, it is from the SD, who is not living in a Christian home.

To everyone who thinks trees are no big deal and that OP should just "compromise" by allowing a tree in her home, you just don't get it. For many Jews, a Christmas tree is a huge Christian symbol and they believe that this symbol has no place in a Jewish home. There is nothing wrong with that belief. It isn't a compromise to allow a tree just because you, the dominant culture, think it is a fine secular thing. It doesn't matter what you think. For many Jews, it is not at all a secular thing and it is a big deal and there is nothing wrong in that.

OP is trying, correctly so, in my opinion, to make everyone, including her Christian SD, comfortable in her home. A small tree in some area of her home is a very generous accommodation. Anything else that feels like it compromises her Jewish home is not appropriate.

OP's husband is a lucky man for having such a thoughtful spouse.

OP's husband's child is a guest in the house? It's not her home even though she's living htere? I guess that makes OP's step-daughter homeless, which is pretty crappy.

Exactly!

Agree.

Having a Christmas tree to make a step daughter to feel at home is part of being a blended family. It doesn't interfere with the OP raising her kids Jewish.

[Anonymous]

OP it looks like you want to deny a young person access to something that brings her joy in order to protect your children from "catching" Christianity.

You say you need your home to be a Jewish Home. But what you're really saying is that you prefer to meet some self-imposed standard of purity than to make this girl feel equal and welcome.

If you stick with your guns, you are privileging blind devotion to norms and practices over the moral and community values that are supposed to be the point of a religious upbringing. You're showing your younger children that Judaism is about exclusion and that this matters more than generosity.

You're also showing your husband where he stands with you- and it's in a corner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's husband married a Jew, committed to raising Jewish children and lives in a Jewish home. Everyone who opines on how OP married a Christian and that means she has to live in an interfaith household and accommodate non-Jewish traditions are simply wrong. OP's home is a Jewish one and she is well within her rights to live in her Jewish home as she wishes. Her SD is a new and very welcomed guest in her home, but if there is any accommodation required, it is from the SD, who is not living in a Christian home.

To everyone who thinks trees are no big deal and that OP should just "compromise" by allowing a tree in her home, you just don't get it. For many Jews, a Christmas tree is a huge Christian symbol and they believe that this symbol has no place in a Jewish home. There is nothing wrong with that belief. It isn't a compromise to allow a tree just because you, the dominant culture, think it is a fine secular thing. It doesn't matter what you think. For many Jews, it is not at all a secular thing and it is a big deal and there is nothing wrong in that.

OP is trying, correctly so, in my opinion, to make everyone, including her Christian SD, comfortable in her home. A small tree in some area of her home is a very generous accommodation. Anything else that feels like it compromises her Jewish home is not appropriate.

OP's husband is a lucky man for having such a thoughtful spouse.

OP's husband's child is a guest in the house? It's not her home even though she's living htere? I guess that makes OP's step-daughter homeless, which is pretty crappy.

Exactly!

No kidding. I don't think OP is as harsh as the PP above who calls it "simply wrong." SD is part of the family. As is DH, who hasn't converted. SD existed before OP married, and what would have happened had the ex-wife died before the step kids were 18? Would they not have been welcomed in OP's home then? OP has defined the home as Jewish in order to raise her and DH's kids in the faith, but she can't deny the existence of the step kids with a different faith, who should feel this is their home too.

Agree.

Having a Christmas tree to make a step daughter to feel at home is part of being a blended family. It doesn't interfere with the OP raising her kids Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Why are we still talking about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Reading through the last 5 pages it seems that half the people believe a jewish home does not need to host a tree and half the people believe that a home in which a member is of a Christian faith should have a tree.

I go back and forth and can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand this is her home and she should feel comfortable. On the other, this is my home and I should feel comfortable. Yes, I am the older adult in this situation but that doesn't mean I can't have strong feelings about this. I suppose what makes me the older adult is how I choose to respond to my feelings.

My original questions were:
What is the meaning of the tree?
Why is the tree traditionally associated with Christianity?

From this thread I have learned that the tree is secular and that the tradition was taken from the pagan winter solstice. It seems that the tree isn't really related to the birth of Christ so I'm having a hard time understanding its significance.

If my SD would like to put a nativity scene on our dining room table next to the menorah, I have no issues or concerns. To me, that is a religious symbol and it acknowledges the Christmas holiday. I'm not sure why the nativity scene does not bother me as much as the tree.

This is the central question for me. You aren't bothered by a nativity scene, you aren't bothered by your children going to Mass, so it seems you do not feel and fear a pressure to assimilate like other posters have suggested. So what exactly is the problem with a tree? Is it the commercialism? It can't be the fact that putting up a tree makes it look like you are celebrating Christmas, because the tree is secular. Putting up a nativity scene would definitely make it look like you are celebrating Christmas, the actual Christian holiday, and you're okay with that. So I'm not understanding the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Reading through the last 5 pages it seems that half the people believe a jewish home does not need to host a tree and half the people believe that a home in which a member is of a Christian faith should have a tree.

I go back and forth and can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand this is her home and she should feel comfortable. On the other, this is my home and I should feel comfortable. Yes, I am the older adult in this situation but that doesn't mean I can't have strong feelings about this. I suppose what makes me the older adult is how I choose to respond to my feelings.

My original questions were:
What is the meaning of the tree?
Why is the tree traditionally associated with Christianity?

From this thread I have learned that the tree is secular and that the tradition was taken from the pagan winter solstice. It seems that the tree isn't really related to the birth of Christ so I'm having a hard time understanding its significance.

If my SD would like to put a nativity scene on our dining room table next to the menorah, I have no issues or concerns. To me, that is a religious symbol and it acknowledges the Christmas holiday. I'm not sure why the nativity scene does not bother me as much as the tree.

This is the central question for me. You aren't bothered by a nativity scene, you aren't bothered by your children going to Mass, so it seems you do not feel and fear a pressure to assimilate like other posters have suggested. So what exactly is the problem with a tree? Is it the commercialism? It can't be the fact that putting up a tree makes it look like you are celebrating Christmas, because the tree is secular. Putting up a nativity scene would definitely make it look like you are celebrating Christmas, the actual Christian holiday, and you're okay with that. So I'm not understanding the problem?

OP said earlier that it was the size of a tree that bothers her. The Jewish holiday decorations that she puts up are modest in size. A menorah doesn't take over the whole living room. A tree often does take over the whole living room. She wants something smaller, more on an equal footing with a menorah. She is thinking about getting a small tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Reading through the last 5 pages it seems that half the people believe a jewish home does not need to host a tree and half the people believe that a home in which a member is of a Christian faith should have a tree.

I go back and forth and can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand this is her home and she should feel comfortable. On the other, this is my home and I should feel comfortable. Yes, I am the older adult in this situation but that doesn't mean I can't have strong feelings about this. I suppose what makes me the older adult is how I choose to respond to my feelings.

My original questions were:
What is the meaning of the tree?
Why is the tree traditionally associated with Christianity?

From this thread I have learned that the tree is secular and that the tradition was taken from the pagan winter solstice. It seems that the tree isn't really related to the birth of Christ so I'm having a hard time understanding its significance.

If my SD would like to put a nativity scene on our dining room table next to the menorah, I have no issues or concerns. To me, that is a religious symbol and it acknowledges the Christmas holiday. I'm not sure why the nativity scene does not bother me as much as the tree.

This is the central question for me. You aren't bothered by a nativity scene, you aren't bothered by your children going to Mass, so it seems you do not feel and fear a pressure to assimilate like other posters have suggested. So what exactly is the problem with a tree? Is it the commercialism? It can't be the fact that putting up a tree makes it look like you are celebrating Christmas, because the tree is secular. Putting up a nativity scene would definitely make it look like you are celebrating Christmas, the actual Christian holiday, and you're okay with that. So I'm not understanding the problem?

OP said earlier that it was the size of a tree that bothers her. The Jewish holiday decorations that she puts up are modest in size. A menorah doesn't take over the whole living room. A tree often does take over the whole living room. She wants something smaller, more on an equal footing with a menorah. She is thinking about getting a small tree.

Or maybe she should get a giant menorah?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Reading through the last 5 pages it seems that half the people believe a jewish home does not need to host a tree and half the people believe that a home in which a member is of a Christian faith should have a tree.

I go back and forth and can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand this is her home and she should feel comfortable. On the other, this is my home and I should feel comfortable. Yes, I am the older adult in this situation but that doesn't mean I can't have strong feelings about this. I suppose what makes me the older adult is how I choose to respond to my feelings.

My original questions were:
What is the meaning of the tree?
Why is the tree traditionally associated with Christianity?

From this thread I have learned that the tree is secular and that the tradition was taken from the pagan winter solstice. It seems that the tree isn't really related to the birth of Christ so I'm having a hard time understanding its significance.

If my SD would like to put a nativity scene on our dining room table next to the menorah, I have no issues or concerns. To me, that is a religious symbol and it acknowledges the Christmas holiday. I'm not sure why the nativity scene does not bother me as much as the tree.

This is the central question for me. You aren't bothered by a nativity scene, you aren't bothered by your children going to Mass, so it seems you do not feel and fear a pressure to assimilate like other posters have suggested. So what exactly is the problem with a tree? Is it the commercialism? It can't be the fact that putting up a tree makes it look like you are celebrating Christmas, because the tree is secular. Putting up a nativity scene would definitely make it look like you are celebrating Christmas, the actual Christian holiday, and you're okay with that. So I'm not understanding the problem?

OP said earlier that it was the size of a tree that bothers her. The Jewish holiday decorations that she puts up are modest in size. A menorah doesn't take over the whole living room. A tree often does take over the whole living room. She wants something smaller, more on an equal footing with a menorah. She is thinking about getting a small tree.

Or maybe she should get a giant menorah?

http://www.menorah.com/catalog2/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=45&cat=Display+Menorahs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP's husband married a Jew, committed to raising Jewish children and lives in a Jewish home. Everyone who opines on how OP married a Christian and that means she has to live in an interfaith household and accommodate non-Jewish traditions are simply wrong. OP's home is a Jewish one and she is well within her rights to live in her Jewish home as she wishes. Her SD is a new and very welcomed guest in her home, but if there is any accommodation required, it is from the SD, who is not living in a Christian home.

To everyone who thinks trees are no big deal and that OP should just "compromise" by allowing a tree in her home, you just don't get it. For many Jews, a Christmas tree is a huge Christian symbol and they believe that this symbol has no place in a Jewish home. There is nothing wrong with that belief. It isn't a compromise to allow a tree just because you, the dominant culture, think it is a fine secular thing. It doesn't matter what you think. For many Jews, it is not at all a secular thing and it is a big deal and there is nothing wrong in that.

OP is trying, correctly so, in my opinion, to make everyone, including her Christian SD, comfortable in her home. A small tree in some area of her home is a very generous accommodation. Anything else that feels like it compromises her Jewish home is not appropriate.

OP's husband is a lucky man for having such a thoughtful spouse.

It's not a "very generous" accommodation. It is a small accommodation in a interfaith marriage. OP is lucky that her DH has made so many generous accommodations to her in the last ten years.