Christmas Trees

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally agree that the rigidity is coming from the Jewish perspective.

But, as I understand it, its stemming from a culture that is very sensitive to accommodation and assimilation as part of its history. This thread has been very interesting to me and I guess I never really got that, but part of Judaism is adamantly NOT being whatever the majority religion is. As a Christian this hasn't ever been part of my cultural past or heritage. But I can see how it very much is a part of the Jewish culture. I guess it sounds like putting up a tree to some feels like something is being taken away.

Only if you perceive it that way. My DH is Jewish and has always participated in Christmas and Easter, as I have in Passover and Hanukkah. Our children were raised observing both. He is probably more into the tree and the lights than I am! But I also take the lead in preparing the latkes and other traditional food and shop for all gifts and decorations for our family and his.

This is what we do too. I'm greedy and celebrate all of the holidays. We do Christmas presents under the tree and Chinese food in Christmas Day. I eat matzoh and peeps. My BIL and SIL do the same thing. There is lots of harmony and happiness in our family. Even my conservative MIL has accepted this

[Anonymous]

I am a Russian Jew and without my tree, the New Year's just would not feel right. I am what I am and I don't feel like I am betraying anything by doing it.

People are what they are. If it's important to someone to have the tree, let them have it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real problem w the tree is it is visible from the window and others from temple could learn of the young shiksa in the house.

Sadly this is on the mark/ it would not go over well in most communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm a differnent poster but still a Jew who would be uncomfortable with a tree in my household. Is a tree really going to fix this problem, though? I would think, the traditional Christmas is a family day, with the kids waking up at 6am for presents, family gathered all day, special meals, etc (all that stuff I see in the movies!) Instead stepdaughter is going to wake up to kids that are sleeping in because the day is off from school. Mom maybe getting some extra housework in because nothing is open anywhere to do errands. Maybe even going to work. (As a Jew, I always work Christmas as that allows other to take off - I'm in the medical field)

Even if there is a tree. Any even if there's some sort of presents or special dinner, how can it be at all the same as celebrating with a Christian family? It just seems like the reality is either stepdaughter celebrates at her mom's house, or, at baseline there is going to be some level of compromise. Is the tree even going to seem like largest issue?

OP here--- I think you may have hit on the bigger issue which DH did not bring up to me. You're right. Dec 25th is not a special family day in our house. DH has always gone into the office. I spend the morning writing my employee evaluations that are due Dec 31st. The kids get up when they get up, have some cereal, and watch tv until I'm done. Then we go to the JCC for some pool time. In the late afternoon, we do some sort of community service project with the JCC. Of course, my SD is welcome to attend any and all of the events that we do--but somehow, I don't think that's what she has in mind for Christmas day. I typically make spaghetti for dinner or if I was on the ball that week, I might have picked up a rotisserie chicken. I get that Christmas is a family holiday. But even with a tree, I'm not sure I can make the house feel like Christmas.

I know a lot of jewish people on this thread are advocating no tree--but it is her home. As I've read this thread over the past few days, I've realized it's the size of the tree that is bothering me. The small tree that someone posted a picture of would be lovely. In judiasm, we just don't have any large overt symbols like the Christmas tree. The menorah fits on my windowsill. The mezzuah fits in my hand. The sedar plate is no bigger than a large turkey platter. The sukkah is rather large but since it's outside it doesn't feel that big.

DH always promised me that once the kids (she has an older brother) were 18 we could start going away for winter break. That it would be the kids choice to join us or not. He never wanted to ask them to make the choice between a winter vacation with us and spending Christmas with their mother. Maybe this year we could start going on vacation.

As for her spending Christmas with her mother---there was a falling out. But it's only July and Dec is a long way away.

You know, OP, that has been my thought too reading through all the posts. It's the size of a typical Christmas tree overpowering the Hannukah symbols in the house, just by its typical large size, that's the significant part of this comfort issue. That's it in a nutshell..it's size overpowers the others when you look at the room. And your house is a Judiasm-practicing house. So therefore the Christian symbol should not overpower the Judiasm symbols. That's the conversation with your DH...how you can accomplish that. A small tree in a special prominent place, maybe on a special table with the Christmas gifts for your SD on it, such as the one that was pictured that you're comfortable with. But not bigger than the Jewish symbols in the room. Hopefully your DH will understand that since your family practices Judiasm. And I'm betting your SD will be fine with it. Her celebration of Christmas is acknowledged. And you can make the day more fun than the part working-day you've described. Not singing Christmas carols around the little tree of course, but a more fun-filled day like Christmas would typically be. A fun family dinner, going to the movies, doing the JCC pool, a community service project that is cross-faith, etc.

Honestly though, a tree can only "overpower" the Jewish symbols if you let yourself believe that. Otherwise, it's just a pretty tree in your house. Your security in your beliefs should be strong enough not to worry about the presence of a Christmas tree, no matter what size it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Reading through the last 5 pages it seems that half the people believe a jewish home does not need to host a tree and half the people believe that a home in which a member is of a Christian faith should have a tree.

I go back and forth and can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand this is her home and she should feel comfortable. On the other, this is my home and I should feel comfortable. Yes, I am the older adult in this situation but that doesn't mean I can't have strong feelings about this. I suppose what makes me the older adult is how I choose to respond to my feelings.

My original questions were:
What is the meaning of the tree?
Why is the tree traditionally associated with Christianity?

From this thread I have learned that the tree is secular and that the tradition was taken from the pagan winter solstice. It seems that the tree isn't really related to the birth of Christ so I'm having a hard time understanding its significance.

If my SD would like to put a nativity scene on our dining room table next to the menorah, I have no issues or concerns. To me, that is a religious symbol and it acknowledges the Christmas holiday. I'm not sure why the nativity scene does not bother me as much as the tree.

That is bizarre.

OP, if it is so important to you to have a 100% Jewish home, why did you marry a Catholic? And why on earth do you let your Jewish children go to Mass?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Reading through the last 5 pages it seems that half the people believe a jewish home does not need to host a tree and half the people believe that a home in which a member is of a Christian faith should have a tree.

I go back and forth and can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand this is her home and she should feel comfortable. On the other, this is my home and I should feel comfortable. Yes, I am the older adult in this situation but that doesn't mean I can't have strong feelings about this. I suppose what makes me the older adult is how I choose to respond to my feelings.

My original questions were:
What is the meaning of the tree?
Why is the tree traditionally associated with Christianity?

From this thread I have learned that the tree is secular and that the tradition was taken from the pagan winter solstice. It seems that the tree isn't really related to the birth of Christ so I'm having a hard time understanding its significance.

If my SD would like to put a nativity scene on our dining room table next to the menorah, I have no issues or concerns. To me, that is a religious symbol and it acknowledges the Christmas holiday. I'm not sure why the nativity scene does not bother me as much as the tree.

That is bizarre.

OP, if it is so important to you to have a 100% Jewish home, why did you marry a Catholic? And why on earth do you let your Jewish children go to Mass?

Judaism goes through the mother not the father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Reading through the last 5 pages it seems that half the people believe a jewish home does not need to host a tree and half the people believe that a home in which a member is of a Christian faith should have a tree.

I go back and forth and can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand this is her home and she should feel comfortable. On the other, this is my home and I should feel comfortable. Yes, I am the older adult in this situation but that doesn't mean I can't have strong feelings about this. I suppose what makes me the older adult is how I choose to respond to my feelings.

My original questions were:
What is the meaning of the tree?
Why is the tree traditionally associated with Christianity?

From this thread I have learned that the tree is secular and that the tradition was taken from the pagan winter solstice. It seems that the tree isn't really related to the birth of Christ so I'm having a hard time understanding its significance.

If my SD would like to put a nativity scene on our dining room table next to the menorah, I have no issues or concerns. To me, that is a religious symbol and it acknowledges the Christmas holiday. I'm not sure why the nativity scene does not bother me as much as the tree.

That is bizarre.

OP, if it is so important to you to have a 100% Jewish home, why did you marry a Catholic? And why on earth do you let your Jewish children go to Mass?

Judaism goes through the mother not the father.

In truth, every Catholic will perform a private baptism of a child in virtually any circumstance. Thus, under Canon Law, those children are claimed for Mother Church. Not jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Reading through the last 5 pages it seems that half the people believe a jewish home does not need to host a tree and half the people believe that a home in which a member is of a Christian faith should have a tree.

I go back and forth and can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand this is her home and she should feel comfortable. On the other, this is my home and I should feel comfortable. Yes, I am the older adult in this situation but that doesn't mean I can't have strong feelings about this. I suppose what makes me the older adult is how I choose to respond to my feelings.

My original questions were:
What is the meaning of the tree?
Why is the tree traditionally associated with Christianity?

From this thread I have learned that the tree is secular and that the tradition was taken from the pagan winter solstice. It seems that the tree isn't really related to the birth of Christ so I'm having a hard time understanding its significance.

If my SD would like to put a nativity scene on our dining room table next to the menorah, I have no issues or concerns. To me, that is a religious symbol and it acknowledges the Christmas holiday. I'm not sure why the nativity scene does not bother me as much as the tree.

That is bizarre.

OP, if it is so important to you to have a 100% Jewish home, why did you marry a Catholic? And why on earth do you let your Jewish children go to Mass?

Judaism goes through the mother not the father.

Yes, that has been established in this thread.

If half of an interfaith couple does not convert to Judaism, and if that non-Jewish spouse has non-Jewish children (who by definition are part of the couple's family) then by definition the home in which they live is not 100% Jewish.

This is so regardless of matrilineal rules re: who is Jewish.

When she married a Catholic, OP gave up the possibility of a 100% Jewish home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here--

Reading through the last 5 pages it seems that half the people believe a jewish home does not need to host a tree and half the people believe that a home in which a member is of a Christian faith should have a tree.

I go back and forth and can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand this is her home and she should feel comfortable. On the other, this is my home and I should feel comfortable. Yes, I am the older adult in this situation but that doesn't mean I can't have strong feelings about this. I suppose what makes me the older adult is how I choose to respond to my feelings.

My original questions were:
What is the meaning of the tree?
Why is the tree traditionally associated with Christianity?

From this thread I have learned that the tree is secular and that the tradition was taken from the pagan winter solstice. It seems that the tree isn't really related to the birth of Christ so I'm having a hard time understanding its significance.

If my SD would like to put a nativity scene on our dining room table next to the menorah, I have no issues or concerns. To me, that is a religious symbol and it acknowledges the Christmas holiday. I'm not sure why the nativity scene does not bother me as much as the tree.

That is bizarre.

OP, if it is so important to you to have a 100% Jewish home, why did you marry a Catholic? And why on earth do you let your Jewish children go to Mass?

Judaism goes through the mother not the father.

In truth, every Catholic will perform a private baptism of a child in virtually any circumstance. Thus, under Canon Law, those children are claimed for Mother Church. Not jewish.

If the father didn't you can be sure his parents did. All the kids are catholic under catholic law, and the younger ones Jewish under Jewish law.

Proves nothing - golden rule applies here to this girl.

[Anonymous]

I think pp has a point about the private Catholic baptisms. I know of two sets of grandparents that did this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think pp has a point about the private Catholic baptisms. I know of two sets of grandparents that did this.

Pretty much all Catholics do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real problem w the tree is it is visible from the window and others from temple could learn of the young shiksa in the house.

Sadly this is on the mark/ it would not go over well in most communities.

Shiska is a derogatory term. Do not marry outside your religion if you are incapable of accepting the religious traditions of your partner. I am Protestant and would never have gone out with anyone outside my religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its easy for many of the other posters who are Christian or Christian/atheist not to understand. I am in a mixed marriage. We don't really practice any religion but I identify as Jewish as I do our child. My husband is fine with it and knew from the beginning I would never be ok with a Christian child. I have gotten a tiny (and I mean tiny) tree for those relatives visiting to keep the peace but it goes up the day before and promptly goes down. Its blue and silver and at best a foot tall. My child does get Christmas gifts from his Christian family and we save them for Christmas, take pictures, etc. and write our thank you notes. They send me Hanukkah gifts instead. You can find a balance but I'd try to keep the tree in her room if possible or not in a main living space as a compromise. Talk to her as it may be more of an issue with your husband making her comfortable vs. her actually caring. I think its highly inappropriate to have a Hanukkah bush, or what every someone else calls it and I'd never do it except for being in a mixed marriage to make relatives happy.

Sorry. That just sounds funny. "I would never be OK with a Christian child."

I also like what an earlier poster said that placing a tree in a bedroom is like asking someone to celebrate Chanukah with a menorah in the car!

Interesting. Substitute "gay" or "transgender" for "Christian" and ppl would be getting flamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its easy for many of the other posters who are Christian or Christian/atheist not to understand. I am in a mixed marriage. We don't really practice any religion but I identify as Jewish as I do our child. My husband is fine with it and knew from the beginning I would never be ok with a Christian child. I have gotten a tiny (and I mean tiny) tree for those relatives visiting to keep the peace but it goes up the day before and promptly goes down. Its blue and silver and at best a foot tall. My child does get Christmas gifts from his Christian family and we save them for Christmas, take pictures, etc. and write our thank you notes. They send me Hanukkah gifts instead. You can find a balance but I'd try to keep the tree in her room if possible or not in a main living space as a compromise. Talk to her as it may be more of an issue with your husband making her comfortable vs. her actually caring. I think its highly inappropriate to have a Hanukkah bush, or what every someone else calls it and I'd never do it except for being in a mixed marriage to make relatives happy.

Sorry. That just sounds funny. "I would never be OK with a Christian child."

I also like what an earlier poster said that placing a tree in a bedroom is like asking someone to celebrate Chanukah with a menorah in the car!

Interesting. Substitute "gay" or "transgender" for "Christian" and ppl would be getting flamed.

Yep. It's even more bizarre because you are "OK" with a Christian spouse. It's overwhelmingly likely your child will intermarry too. Why not embrace your children's entire heritage?