In defense of the low-sex-drive partner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the pp who says forcing a spouse into celibacy is less bad than trying to get a dl partner to have more sex. Dictating when someone else has sex is selfish, whether it's more or less than than the person would choose for themselves.

I wonder if those of you who are saying how it feels to be asked for sex too often hurts, or you'd be crushed if DH asked for a bj if you can't bring yourself to have sex with him, hae considered how it feels to be constantly rejected. My self esteem has taken a nose dive from it. It's affecting our relationship in a million ways. I try my best to cover my frustration, disappointment, and resentment, but I know it shows through. For instance, we can have a great evening, then some lovely conversation after the kids are in bed, maybe some snuggling, then nothing.

It's gotten to the point where I don't initiate anymore because the rejection brings me to tears now. DH doesn't see anything wrong with 2-3x a month. I'm just playing along, pretending I'm happy, feeling trapped because I don't want to tear our family apart, wasting all my good years, knowing that when I can get out without ruining my children's childhood I'll be too old to have what's being denied to me now.

If you asked him, he'd say I'm understanding about the lack of sex. Maybe a little disappointed but how bad can it be. It's just sex, right?

I think it's a problem whenever anyone on either side (LD or HD) starts framing it in terms of something the other person is doing to them, rather than as a difference in needs and desires. One side isn't doing anything to their spouse any more than the other side is, but when either side starts criticizing and assigning blame, you're basically shutting down any possibility of finding a middle ground.

It took a few years to lose my empathy. I bet most people start off understanding, then become less so over time as their needs continue to go unmet. I'm certainly not asking for more sex than when we first married. Hell, I'm not asking for more sex than we had 10 years after we got together. The frequency declined little by little, until it got to 2-3x a month. I wan understanding, compassionate, empathetic, all that until we dipped below once a week with no prospects of improvement. Middle ground, IMO, would be halfway between where we started and were we are now, so about 2-3x a week. Middle ground would be other means of intimacy besides PIV if that's so unbearable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the pp who says forcing a spouse into celibacy is less bad than trying to get a dl partner to have more sex. Dictating when someone else has sex is selfish, whether it's more or less than than the person would choose for themselves.

I wonder if those of you who are saying how it feels to be asked for sex too often hurts, or you'd be crushed if DH asked for a bj if you can't bring yourself to have sex with him, hae considered how it feels to be constantly rejected. My self esteem has taken a nose dive from it. It's affecting our relationship in a million ways. I try my best to cover my frustration, disappointment, and resentment, but I know it shows through. For instance, we can have a great evening, then some lovely conversation after the kids are in bed, maybe some snuggling, then nothing.

It's gotten to the point where I don't initiate anymore because the rejection brings me to tears now. DH doesn't see anything wrong with 2-3x a month. I'm just playing along, pretending I'm happy, feeling trapped because I don't want to tear our family apart, wasting all my good years, knowing that when I can get out without ruining my children's childhood I'll be too old to have what's being denied to me now.

If you asked him, he'd say I'm understanding about the lack of sex. Maybe a little disappointed but how bad can it be. It's just sex, right?

I think it's a problem whenever anyone on either side (LD or HD) starts framing it in terms of something the other person is doing to them, rather than as a difference in needs and desires. One side isn't doing anything to their spouse any more than the other side is, but when either side starts criticizing and assigning blame, you're basically shutting down any possibility of finding a middle ground.

It took a few years to lose my empathy. I bet most people start off understanding, then become less so over time as their needs continue to go unmet. I'm certainly not asking for more sex than when we first married. Hell, I'm not asking for more sex than we had 10 years after we got together. The frequency declined little by little, until it got to 2-3x a month. I wan understanding, compassionate, empathetic, all that until we dipped below once a week with no prospects of improvement. Middle ground, IMO, would be halfway between where we started and were we are now, so about 2-3x a week. Middle ground would be other means of intimacy besides PIV if that's so unbearable.

If you're miserable and your spouse refuses to compromise (although since 2-3x per week is at worst average for middle-aged people, I'm not sure that's a reasonable compromise either, but that's something to work out with your spouse), then leave. Be done with the marriage. Stop going for the biggest martyr award, because there is no trophy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if you won't even give a bj, are you okay with him going to a sex worker for some relief? If you have the understanding that you and your husband are monogamous, you shouldn't be furious/crushed/mortified if he asks you to take part in a sex act with him. If it bothers you that much, then you should be fair with him and let him get relief somewhere else if he needs to.

It's called masturbation.

Lol because that's totally the same thing as being touched and satisfied by the person you love most and who is supposed to love you too.

Is that what you'd be doing with a prostitute? Because that's the question I was answering?

Who said anything about a prostitute? Those aren't the only options- masturbation and prostitutes. There are a lot of people stuck in unhappy marriages who can help each other out if their spouses don't want to.

I've bolded the question I was responding to.

I'm sorry, I misread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if you won't even give a bj, are you okay with him going to a sex worker for some relief? If you have the understanding that you and your husband are monogamous, you shouldn't be furious/crushed/mortified if he asks you to take part in a sex act with him. If it bothers you that much, then you should be fair with him and let him get relief somewhere else if he needs to.

It's called masturbation.

Lol because that's totally the same thing as being touched and satisfied by the person you love most and who is supposed to love you too.

Is that what you'd be doing with a prostitute? Because that's the question I was answering?

Who said anything about a prostitute? Those aren't the only options- masturbation and prostitutes. There are a lot of people stuck in unhappy marriages who can help each other out if their spouses don't want to.

Are you willing to take the risk that your dalliance with another unsatisfied spouse won't result in emotions for each other that destroy your marriage? Would you also be okay with your LD spouse taking up with another LD spouse for companionship, cuddling, etc., without sex, and with the risk that they could develop emotions that would destroy your marriage? If you're okay jeopardizing your marriage like this, why are you even married?

[Anonymous]

It's hard to discuss, in part, because there are so many variables. People tend to project their experience on to the discussion and other people respond, projecting their own different experiences.

I can't relate to the "it's just physical, I'll go to a prostitute" people. That just seems like complicated masturbation. Sex is (or in my mind should be) an expression of the love or at least interest of another person. So, if my wife can't get her mind into sex, it's really no compromise to me if she just gives me her body. That's bad for both of us.

If there is a clear, physical reason for her disinterest in sex, that at least reduces or eliminates the feelings of rejection. Psychological or hormonal causes may be every bit as debilitating for her, but it's harder for me to perceive that source of disinterest as something other than her rejection of me as a person.

It also feels like a rejection when she kind of puts her head in the sand about her disinterest. Even if she wants to want to have sex with me, it feels like doing nothing is a "win" for her and she doesn't have a strong incentive to try to change the status quo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to discuss, in part, because there are so many variables. People tend to project their experience on to the discussion and other people respond, projecting their own different experiences.

I can't relate to the "it's just physical, I'll go to a prostitute" people. That just seems like complicated masturbation. Sex is (or in my mind should be) an expression of the love or at least interest of another person. So, if my wife can't get her mind into sex, it's really no compromise to me if she just gives me her body. That's bad for both of us.

If there is a clear, physical reason for her disinterest in sex, that at least reduces or eliminates the feelings of rejection. Psychological or hormonal causes may be every bit as debilitating for her, but it's harder for me to perceive that source of disinterest as something other than her rejection of me as a person.

It also feels like a rejection when she kind of puts her head in the sand about her disinterest. Even if she wants to want to have sex with me, it feels like doing nothing is a "win" for her and she doesn't have a strong incentive to try to change the status quo.

The bolded part is pretty messed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question for LD folks (not OP whose condition is medical). Take a PP poster's example who says post-menopause or whatever 10 years after the honeymoon phase is over a DW reverts into LD when she was HD during the first few years of the relationship. The HD husband decides he can't live without sex for the rest of his life and ends the relationship. Does DW really plan on never dating again? If she does plan do date again is she going to fire up her match.com account and honestly describe herself as LD to prospective new partners? I doubt it.

As a post-menopausal LD woman 30 years into the relationship, I would say that I would not plan on dating again should something happen to us. Now it might be different in reality, but those are my thoughts now.

And there we have one answer to the "Why do men remarry younger women" thread.

That is embedded in our DNA by hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to discuss, in part, because there are so many variables. People tend to project their experience on to the discussion and other people respond, projecting their own different experiences.

I can't relate to the "it's just physical, I'll go to a prostitute" people. That just seems like complicated masturbation. Sex is (or in my mind should be) an expression of the love or at least interest of another person. So, if my wife can't get her mind into sex, it's really no compromise to me if she just gives me her body. That's bad for both of us.

If there is a clear, physical reason for her disinterest in sex, that at least reduces or eliminates the feelings of rejection. Psychological or hormonal causes may be every bit as debilitating for her, but it's harder for me to perceive that source of disinterest as something other than her rejection of me as a person.

It also feels like a rejection when she kind of puts her head in the sand about her disinterest. Even if she wants to want to have sex with me, it feels like doing nothing is a "win" for her and she doesn't have a strong incentive to try to change the status quo.

The bolded part is pretty messed up.

As soon as I read that, I knew someone would pounce on it, but I often feel the same way. I try not to. I certainly doing think of it as if I'm winning when we do have sex.

But if we're also using terms like compromise, then we're discussion negotiations, in which there are usually winners and losers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to discuss, in part, because there are so many variables. People tend to project their experience on to the discussion and other people respond, projecting their own different experiences.

I can't relate to the "it's just physical, I'll go to a prostitute" people. That just seems like complicated masturbation. Sex is (or in my mind should be) an expression of the love or at least interest of another person. So, if my wife can't get her mind into sex, it's really no compromise to me if she just gives me her body. That's bad for both of us.

If there is a clear, physical reason for her disinterest in sex, that at least reduces or eliminates the feelings of rejection. Psychological or hormonal causes may be every bit as debilitating for her, but it's harder for me to perceive that source of disinterest as something other than her rejection of me as a person.

It also feels like a rejection when she kind of puts her head in the sand about her disinterest. Even if she wants to want to have sex with me, it feels like doing nothing is a "win" for her and she doesn't have a strong incentive to try to change the status quo.

The bolded part is pretty messed up.

As soon as I read that, I knew someone would pounce on it, but I often feel the same way. I try not to. I certainly doing think of it as if I'm winning when we do have sex.

But if we're also using terms like compromise, then we're discussion negotiations, in which there are usually winners and losers.

You have a very cold view of marriage if you see efforts to accommodate both spouses' needs as creating winners and losers. I'm winner in my marriage when we're both happy. If either of us is unhappy in the marriage, then it's an unhappy marriage and I'm a loser, even if I'm supposedly getting my way.

[Anonymous]

I hate the whole "HD LD" internet thing. Sex is a complex emotional, physical, and psychological thing, and it waxes and wanes naturally in all relationships over time as normal couples
face normal pressures and challenges. It should not be turned into some kind of immutable identity thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to discuss, in part, because there are so many variables. People tend to project their experience on to the discussion and other people respond, projecting their own different experiences.

I can't relate to the "it's just physical, I'll go to a prostitute" people. That just seems like complicated masturbation. Sex is (or in my mind should be) an expression of the love or at least interest of another person. So, if my wife can't get her mind into sex, it's really no compromise to me if she just gives me her body. That's bad for both of us.

If there is a clear, physical reason for her disinterest in sex, that at least reduces or eliminates the feelings of rejection. Psychological or hormonal causes may be every bit as debilitating for her, but it's harder for me to perceive that source of disinterest as something other than her rejection of me as a person.

It also feels like a rejection when she kind of puts her head in the sand about her disinterest. Even if she wants to want to have sex with me, it feels like doing nothing is a "win" for her and she doesn't have a strong incentive to try to change the status quo.

The bolded part is pretty messed up.

As soon as I read that, I knew someone would pounce on it, but I often feel the same way. I try not to. I certainly doing think of it as if I'm winning when we do have sex.

But if we're also using terms like compromise, then we're discussion negotiations, in which there are usually winners and losers.

I understand what you mean. It's not about winning and losing, but it's hard not to think of it that way when my partner's needs are met and seems happy, and my needs aren't. It feels like they're not trying and I'm left holding the bag, being an insensitive prick for wanting sex.

Maybe it's more like they're getting what they want, or they're doing more taking than giving, rather than winning and losing. At any rate, i get what you meant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate the whole "HD LD" internet thing. Sex is a complex emotional, physical, and psychological thing, and it waxes and wanes naturally in all relationships over time as normal couples
face normal pressures and challenges. It should not be turned into some kind of immutable identity thing.

+1. I also hate how we seem to treat is as happening in a vacuum on these threads. Sure, sometimes is goes down the road of "well, maybe if you were meeting your spouse's needs in other areas, they would meet your needs here." But in general, it seems like we typically end up discussing sex drive as if it's a wholly separate thing from the rest of the marriage, and your quality as a spouse is wholly dependent upon whether you're fully meeting your spouse's sexual needs. Someone could be doing everything else right in the marriage, but if they're asking for sex too much or not giving enough blowjobs, then they fail as a spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the whole "HD LD" internet thing. Sex is a complex emotional, physical, and psychological thing, and it waxes and wanes naturally in all relationships over time as normal couples
face normal pressures and challenges. It should not be turned into some kind of immutable identity thing.

+1. I also hate how we seem to treat is as happening in a vacuum on these threads. Sure, sometimes is goes down the road of "well, maybe if you were meeting your spouse's needs in other areas, they would meet your needs here." But in general, it seems like we typically end up discussing sex drive as if it's a wholly separate thing from the rest of the marriage, and your quality as a spouse is wholly dependent upon whether you're fully meeting your spouse's sexual needs. Someone could be doing everything else right in the marriage, but if they're asking for sex too much or not giving enough blowjobs, then they fail as a spouse.

That's why it's so complicated. That's also why some partners choose not to divorce, and instead suffer in silence or seek out an affair.

Would we tell someone to suck it up because their spouse is perfect in every way except he/she has a shopping addiction and is spending all their money? A gambling problem? Alcoholism? Hoarder? Workaholic? Likes to go hiking every 3 day weekend as well as every Sunday morning? None of those issues exist in a vacuum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the whole reason I bring this up is that people need to understand it's hard (pardon the pun), really hard to have sex if you aren't aroused. I think there's a misconception that it's like giving a foot massage or scratching a back -- it's not.

OP, I got taken to task on one of the LD vs. HD threads a while back for saying that sex should never be coerced or pressured. The counter argument is that forcing celibacy is "just as bad" as pressuring someone to have sex when they don't want to. I completely disagree that it's "just as bad." For the people who say, "just give blowjobs" I also disagree. Have you ever given someone a blowjob when you didn't want to?

I don't think that sex should be coerced. I don't think that it should be withheld and not discussed. If my partner does not want to have sex, he tells me and we talk about it. I get that it's a hard needle to thread, when people's desire levels are very different, but I do not think that coercion or pressure is ever an acceptable answer and if my husband said "You don't feel like having sex, so how about you just give me a BJ?" I would be furious/crushed/mortified.

And note that this solution only seems to be applied to men. I mean, if the wife wants sex and husband is not in the mood, the wife is expected to shut up, not settle for a session of oral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the whole reason I bring this up is that people need to understand it's hard (pardon the pun), really hard to have sex if you aren't aroused. I think there's a misconception that it's like giving a foot massage or scratching a back -- it's not.

OP, I got taken to task on one of the LD vs. HD threads a while back for saying that sex should never be coerced or pressured. The counter argument is that forcing celibacy is "just as bad" as pressuring someone to have sex when they don't want to. I completely disagree that it's "just as bad." For the people who say, "just give blowjobs" I also disagree. Have you ever given someone a blowjob when you didn't want to?

I don't think that sex should be coerced. I don't think that it should be withheld and not discussed. If my partner does not want to have sex, he tells me and we talk about it. I get that it's a hard needle to thread, when people's desire levels are very different, but I do not think that coercion or pressure is ever an acceptable answer and if my husband said "You don't feel like having sex, so how about you just give me a BJ?" I would be furious/crushed/mortified.

And note that this solution only seems to be applied to men. I mean, if the wife wants sex and husband is not in the mood, the wife is expected to shut up, not settle for a session of oral.

I don't think I have ever seen that suggested.

If anything, we are much harder on the men, if they can even call themselves that. (see what I mean?)