In defense of the low-sex-drive partner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's nice that someone is addressing the other side of the conversation. What does your doctor suggest when you bring this up with them? Has he suggested trying other meds or any other alternatives?

Lowering the dose. Tried that. Didn't work. Smutty novels help, porn less so. But even so, I have to really find a fantasy to grip onto in my head to get into it.

You know what helped? I'll only admit this because it's anonymous board. 50 Shades of Gray. Ha ha ha ha. I'm embarrassed to admit it and hate to be promoting the book but it did. You don't even have to buy the book, libraries have copies. Of course, it's not a long term solution but it's better than nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's nice that someone is addressing the other side of the conversation. What does your doctor suggest when you bring this up with them? Has he suggested trying other meds or any other alternatives?

Lowering the dose. Tried that. Didn't work. Smutty novels help, porn less so. But even so, I have to really find a fantasy to grip onto in my head to get into it.

You know what helped? I'll only admit this because it's anonymous board. 50 Shades of Gray. Ha ha ha ha. I'm embarrassed to admit it and hate to be promoting the book but it did. You don't even have to buy the book, libraries have copies. Of course, it's not a long term solution but it's better than nothing.

Why are you embarrassed to admit that? I've heard lots of men talk about how their wives got a boost of sex drive after reading those books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the whole "HD LD" internet thing. Sex is a complex emotional, physical, and psychological thing, and it waxes and wanes naturally in all relationships over time as normal couples
face normal pressures and challenges. It should not be turned into some kind of immutable identity thing.

+1. I also hate how we seem to treat is as happening in a vacuum on these threads. Sure, sometimes is goes down the road of "well, maybe if you were meeting your spouse's needs in other areas, they would meet your needs here." But in general, it seems like we typically end up discussing sex drive as if it's a wholly separate thing from the rest of the marriage, and your quality as a spouse is wholly dependent upon whether you're fully meeting your spouse's sexual needs. Someone could be doing everything else right in the marriage, but if they're asking for sex too much or not giving enough blowjobs, then they fail as a spouse.

That's why it's so complicated. That's also why some partners choose not to divorce, and instead suffer in silence or seek out an affair.

Would we tell someone to suck it up because their spouse is perfect in every way except he/she has a shopping addiction and is spending all their money? A gambling problem? Alcoholism? Hoarder? Workaholic? Likes to go hiking every 3 day weekend as well as every Sunday morning? None of those issues exist in a vacuum.

The bold are false equivalencies. I left off the hiking because that seems closer. In your bold statement you list things that are ipso facto bad. Mental health issues are problems, and they are generally problems belonging to the individual, though they can be exacerbated / enabled by the partner.

A mismatch in drives does not mean either partner has a problem, much the way someone being either an introvert or an extrovert isn't a problem. The problem is in the relationship, and in creating a marriage that works between 2 equally important but different people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the whole "HD LD" internet thing. Sex is a complex emotional, physical, and psychological thing, and it waxes and wanes naturally in all relationships over time as normal couples
face normal pressures and challenges. It should not be turned into some kind of immutable identity thing.

+1. I also hate how we seem to treat is as happening in a vacuum on these threads. Sure, sometimes is goes down the road of "well, maybe if you were meeting your spouse's needs in other areas, they would meet your needs here." But in general, it seems like we typically end up discussing sex drive as if it's a wholly separate thing from the rest of the marriage, and your quality as a spouse is wholly dependent upon whether you're fully meeting your spouse's sexual needs. Someone could be doing everything else right in the marriage, but if they're asking for sex too much or not giving enough blowjobs, then they fail as a spouse.

That's why it's so complicated. That's also why some partners choose not to divorce, and instead suffer in silence or seek out an affair.

Would we tell someone to suck it up because their spouse is perfect in every way except he/she has a shopping addiction and is spending all their money? A gambling problem? Alcoholism? Hoarder? Workaholic? Likes to go hiking every 3 day weekend as well as every Sunday morning? None of those issues exist in a vacuum.

The bold are false equivalencies. I left off the hiking because that seems closer. In your bold statement you list things that are ipso facto bad. Mental health issues are problems, and they are generally problems belonging to the individual, though they can be exacerbated / enabled by the partner.

A mismatch in drives does not mean either partner has a problem, much the way someone being either an introvert or an extrovert isn't a problem. The problem is in the relationship, and in creating a marriage that works between 2 equally important but different people.

Well, they aren't really false equivalencies. The PP listed things that are not bad in themselves but are bad because of the degree to which they engage in those activities and how that degree affects their relationships with others. Shopping isn't bad, but if you do too much of it, you end up with too much stuff and money problems in relation to other people. The problem with drinking alcohol is only partially an objective, physical problem -- a bigger problem is typically that drinking too much of it causes you to interact with others in socially unacceptable ways. Working certainly isn't bad - but working so much that it impairs your relationships with others is bad.

So, the low drive / high drive issue is similar. Having sex or not having sex, either way, isn't bad. But, if taken too far, having sex or not having sex impairs your relationship with others -- particularly your spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the whole "HD LD" internet thing. Sex is a complex emotional, physical, and psychological thing, and it waxes and wanes naturally in all relationships over time as normal couples
face normal pressures and challenges. It should not be turned into some kind of immutable identity thing.

+1. I also hate how we seem to treat is as happening in a vacuum on these threads. Sure, sometimes is goes down the road of "well, maybe if you were meeting your spouse's needs in other areas, they would meet your needs here." But in general, it seems like we typically end up discussing sex drive as if it's a wholly separate thing from the rest of the marriage, and your quality as a spouse is wholly dependent upon whether you're fully meeting your spouse's sexual needs. Someone could be doing everything else right in the marriage, but if they're asking for sex too much or not giving enough blowjobs, then they fail as a spouse.

That's why it's so complicated. That's also why some partners choose not to divorce, and instead suffer in silence or seek out an affair.

Would we tell someone to suck it up because their spouse is perfect in every way except he/she has a shopping addiction and is spending all their money? A gambling problem? Alcoholism? Hoarder? Workaholic? Likes to go hiking every 3 day weekend as well as every Sunday morning? None of those issues exist in a vacuum.

The bold are false equivalencies. I left off the hiking because that seems closer. In your bold statement you list things that are ipso facto bad. Mental health issues are problems, and they are generally problems belonging to the individual, though they can be exacerbated / enabled by the partner.

A mismatch in drives does not mean either partner has a problem, much the way someone being either an introvert or an extrovert isn't a problem. The problem is in the relationship, and in creating a marriage that works between 2 equally important but different people.

Well, they aren't really false equivalencies. The PP listed things that are not bad in themselves but are bad because of the degree to which they engage in those activities and how that degree affects their relationships with others. Shopping isn't bad, but if you do too much of it, you end up with too much stuff and money problems in relation to other people. The problem with drinking alcohol is only partially an objective, physical problem -- a bigger problem is typically that drinking too much of it causes you to interact with others in socially unacceptable ways. Working certainly isn't bad - but working so much that it impairs your relationships with others is bad.

So, the low drive / high drive issue is similar. Having sex or not having sex, either way, isn't bad. But, if taken too far, having sex or not having sex impairs your relationship with others -- particularly your spouse.

PP again. I disagree. I might give you workaholic, but the others *as listed* are the pathological extremes of the given behaviors that signal mental health issues / addictions and as such are problems REGARDLESS of marital status. Beyond the fact that family suffers disproportionate collateral damage these problems at heart lie in the individual and not in the relationship.

Barring sex addictions of physical problems, actual equivalencies to the LD/HD issue would be things like:
-Couples disagree on the balance of spending/saving but both are reasonable positions
-Social drinker vs. teetotaler
-Religious faith vs. Atheist
-Cry-it-out vs Co-Sleeping
-Neat vs Messy
-Beach vacations or Mountain vacations
-Urban vs rural
-Egalitarian or gender traditional division of labor
-Children vs. Childfree

These are issues where there is no objective right or wrong - they are simply positions that impact compatibility when building a life together. Some of these are fairly easy to compromise on (taking turns on picking vacation destinations) while some are difficult to impossible and could be grounds for divorce (children vs. childfree.)

[Anonymous]

I see your point pp (don't necessarily agree though), but I would contend that it's not even as simple as something like one partner wants kids and the other doesn't. It seems more like they both agree and one changes their mind a few years into the marriage. Most of these stories of low drive spouses don't start off as mismatched couples. They seem to start off on the same page, then one partner changes their mind. Kind of like bait and switch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see your point pp (don't necessarily agree though), but I would contend that it's not even as simple as something like one partner wants kids and the other doesn't. It seems more like they both agree and one changes their mind a few years into the marriage. Most of these stories of low drive spouses don't start off as mismatched couples. They seem to start off on the same page, then one partner changes their mind. Kind of like bait and switch.

NP here. I am now entirely convinced that not only do you not grasp analogy, but that you have not been married for a long time (15+ years).

You are most likely a male -- thought some females do use the "bait/switch" terminology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question for LD folks (not OP whose condition is medical). Take a PP poster's example who says post-menopause or whatever 10 years after the honeymoon phase is over a DW reverts into LD when she was HD during the first few years of the relationship. The HD husband decides he can't live without sex for the rest of his life and ends the relationship. Does DW really plan on never dating again? If she does plan do date again is she going to fire up her match.com account and honestly describe herself as LD to prospective new partners? I doubt it.

No, b/c she won't be LD to a new partner. If she dates again, and especially the same person, she's going to fuck like a rabbit the first year or so of the relationship and then it will wane. You know why? Because familiarity kills many women's sex drive. It just does. She's not attracted to you anymore. But I guarantee that if you gave her the freedom to do so, she would find someone that would turn her on. There is this false notion that women are by nature monogamous. Wrong. If societal norms changed and it was ok for women to love sex - really love sex - and for open relationships, I think many people would be shocked at how many women picked up that gauntlet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question for LD folks (not OP whose condition is medical). Take a PP poster's example who says post-menopause or whatever 10 years after the honeymoon phase is over a DW reverts into LD when she was HD during the first few years of the relationship. The HD husband decides he can't live without sex for the rest of his life and ends the relationship. Does DW really plan on never dating again? If she does plan do date again is she going to fire up her match.com account and honestly describe herself as LD to prospective new partners? I doubt it.

No, b/c she won't be LD to a new partner. If she dates again, and especially the same person, she's going to fuck like a rabbit the first year or so of the relationship and then it will wane. You know why? Because familiarity kills many women's sex drive. It just does. She's not attracted to you anymore. But I guarantee that if you gave her the freedom to do so, she would find someone that would turn her on. There is this false notion that women are by nature monogamous. Wrong. If societal norms changed and it was ok for women to love sex - really love sex - and for open relationships, I think many people would be shocked at how many women picked up that gauntlet.

Which is probably how a lot of the cultures repressing female sexuality got started in the first place. Women like to have sex - and they especially like to have sex with men who aren't their husbands. Husbands can't be sure that their heirs are, in fact, their own kids. So, they do what they can to lock down women having sex with other people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see your point pp (don't necessarily agree though), but I would contend that it's not even as simple as something like one partner wants kids and the other doesn't. It seems more like they both agree and one changes their mind a few years into the marriage. Most of these stories of low drive spouses don't start off as mismatched couples. They seem to start off on the same page, then one partner changes their mind. Kind of like bait and switch.

NP here. I am now entirely convinced that not only do you not grasp analogy, but that you have not been married for a long time (15+ years).

You are most likely a male -- thought some females do use the "bait/switch" terminology.

Sorry to burst your bubble. You're wrong on all counts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see your point pp (don't necessarily agree though), but I would contend that it's not even as simple as something like one partner wants kids and the other doesn't. It seems more like they both agree and one changes their mind a few years into the marriage. Most of these stories of low drive spouses don't start off as mismatched couples. They seem to start off on the same page, then one partner changes their mind. Kind of like bait and switch.

NP here. I am now entirely convinced that not only do you not grasp analogy, but that you have not been married for a long time (15+ years).

You are most likely a male -- thought some females do use the "bait/switch" terminology.

Sorry to burst your bubble. You're wrong on all counts.

There's no point arguing with someone who frames this as "changing their mind." Like you decided one thing, then decided the opposite. If someone thinks that's all it is--and you could just change your mind back, except you don't want to-- then you might be better off divorced, because this person is not mature enough to handle a long term relationship which will have ups and downs. (That's why they are mentioned so prominently in the marriage vows--better or worse, sickness and in health, richer or poorer....). If they think you're a bad spouse for having less frequent sex after 10 years, this is not a person you want to count on when the real shit happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In all the discussion about how often couples have sex and how much is normal/to be expected, I think it's important that both sides be understood. I am a DW with a low sex drive (thanks to some medicines I take.) Before I took these medicines I really loved sex. However, it's so hard for me now. I really do my best but if I'm not aroused, sex isn't just perfunctory, it's downright painful. There are times when I enjoy it but there are also times where I just pray it ends quickly because it hurts (of course my DH would stop if I told him, but I am trying to meet his needs as well.)

I bring this up because when you aren't aroused, or aren't able to get aroused, it's hard to have sex. It's not just like a chore that takes effort. It is a physical and mental exercise - and it's frankly miserable if you aren't "in the mood."

Just my 0.02. (We probably have sex 2-3 times per month, FWIW.)

You sound like my wife. If she (you) would get down on your knees and suck it. That would be good
Try taking it in the ass. Anything to show your at least tying to meet my needs.

But alas that won't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In all the discussion about how often couples have sex and how much is normal/to be expected, I think it's important that both sides be understood. I am a DW with a low sex drive (thanks to some medicines I take.) Before I took these medicines I really loved sex. However, it's so hard for me now. I really do my best but if I'm not aroused, sex isn't just perfunctory, it's downright painful. There are times when I enjoy it but there are also times where I just pray it ends quickly because it hurts (of course my DH would stop if I told him, but I am trying to meet his needs as well.)

I bring this up because when you aren't aroused, or aren't able to get aroused, it's hard to have sex. It's not just like a chore that takes effort. It is a physical and mental exercise - and it's frankly miserable if you aren't "in the mood."

Just my 0.02. (We probably have sex 2-3 times per month, FWIW.)

You sound like my wife. If she (you) would get down on your knees and suck it. That would be good
Try taking it in the ass. Anything to show your at least tying to meet my needs.

But alas that won't happen.

With your attitude and crudeness I don't have to think too hard about why it is not happening for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see your point pp (don't necessarily agree though), but I would contend that it's not even as simple as something like one partner wants kids and the other doesn't. It seems more like they both agree and one changes their mind a few years into the marriage. Most of these stories of low drive spouses don't start off as mismatched couples. They seem to start off on the same page, then one partner changes their mind. Kind of like bait and switch.

NP here. I am now entirely convinced that not only do you not grasp analogy, but that you have not been married for a long time (15+ years).

You are most likely a male -- thought some females do use the "bait/switch" terminology.

Sorry to burst your bubble. You're wrong on all counts.

There's no point arguing with someone who frames this as "changing their mind." Like you decided one thing, then decided the opposite. If someone thinks that's all it is--and you could just change your mind back, except you don't want to-- then you might be better off divorced, because this person is not mature enough to handle a long term relationship which will have ups and downs. (That's why they are mentioned so prominently in the marriage vows--better or worse, sickness and in health, richer or poorer....). If they think you're a bad spouse for having less frequent sex after 10 years, this is not a person you want to count on when the real shit happens.

Ok, changes their mindset. Changes their attitude toward sex. Changes their perception about sex. If it's a psychological issue, is that not what's happening? Good sex doesn't just happen to lucky people. You have to work at it to keep it good. When a partner doesn't want to put in that effort anymore, how else would you phrase it? I wasn't intending to get hung up on semantics but really, isn't the issue that they've changed how much value they place on sex?

I also wonder about spouses who won't put any effort into sex. Will they put effort into the marriage when the real shit happens when they can't even put effort into the marriage bed?

And again, we're not talking about a little less sex, which is natural. We're talkig about significant declines over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question for LD folks (not OP whose condition is medical). Take a PP poster's example who says post-menopause or whatever 10 years after the honeymoon phase is over a DW reverts into LD when she was HD during the first few years of the relationship. The HD husband decides he can't live without sex for the rest of his life and ends the relationship. Does DW really plan on never dating again? If she does plan do date again is she going to fire up her match.com account and honestly describe herself as LD to prospective new partners? I doubt it.

Ha, I am not even menopausal but still LD, and yes, I absolutely would NOT date again if the relationship ended.