What is the desired outcome?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Since this is anonymous I will just say this frankly. The sub-set of kids that are very smart, popular, non-geeky, social, and sporty choose Michigan or UVA over “top tier” options due to fit. They want top academics, Greek life, parties, huge sports events in a fun college town. That just isn’t happening at most top schools these days. People say Duke or Northwestern are still like this, but that is not we are hearing from kids that currently attend.

[Anonymous]

OP here- my question was, what is the purpose of this obsession? What is the outcome that parents are looking for? Doesn’t everyone want their kids to be happy, responsible, independent, social and have friends ? Eventually settle down and get married and have their own families? How much of that has anything to do with what college they go to? Does going to UVA or UMD vs Harvard or Stanford mean the kid is unable to live a meaningful life? Be happy, independent and responsible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

This is such bullshit. How the hell do you know what “most top in-state students feel about UVA?” What makes is “just a fact?” That YOU say so?

Two thirds of in state kids admitted to UVA choose to go? Do you really think that none of those kids—virtually all of whom were high achievers—did not have any more highly ranked options? How can you possible speak for thousands of kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What outcome are people really hoping for?

I recently spoke with a friend who was upset that the highest-ranked school her child was accepted to was UVA. Both she and her child questioned the point of all their effort if that was the result—they’re now holding out hope for an Ivy acceptance. It made me wonder: is this really how families measure the value of their high school years?

Getting into a prestigious college shouldn’t be the ultimate goal. College lasts four years—and those years go by quickly. Then what? Do we spend enough time thinking about what comes after?

Many of us invest years preparing our children for “success,” often defining that success as admission to a highly ranked university. But that’s a narrow way of thinking. A fulfilling, meaningful life isn’t determined by the name of a college—it’s shaped by curiosity, resilience, relationships, and purpose. Maybe it’s time we start valuing those just as much, if not more, than a ranking.

Just being honest, if they go to an ivy or similar, the what comes after sorts itself out rather easily. There are so many doors opened and opportunities that exist merely by attending, for all students who get in. For some parents it is maximizing top-job opportunities, including top Law/MD/phd, for others it is maximizing meeting similar smarts peers for marriage and lifelong friends. It is evident reading these boards, reddit, etc, those are the goals and the elite schools give you much better odds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What outcome are people really hoping for?

I recently spoke with a friend who was upset that the highest-ranked school her child was accepted to was UVA. Both she and her child questioned the point of all their effort if that was the result—they’re now holding out hope for an Ivy acceptance. It made me wonder: is this really how families measure the value of their high school years?

Getting into a prestigious college shouldn’t be the ultimate goal. College lasts four years—and those years go by quickly. Then what? Do we spend enough time thinking about what comes after?

Many of us invest years preparing our children for “success,” often defining that success as admission to a highly ranked university. But that’s a narrow way of thinking. A fulfilling, meaningful life isn’t determined by the name of a college—it’s shaped by curiosity, resilience, relationships, and purpose. Maybe it’s time we start valuing those just as much, if not more, than a ranking.

I’m exhausted by the constant virtue signaling directed at parents and students. Schools are the ones engineering these high-stakes games and piling unnecessary burdens on kids. Instead of being forced to play the part of a 'future world leader,' teenagers should be allowed to focus on their studies, enjoy their high school time, and pursue interests they actually care about.

Too many people fall for the trap—yarning or clinging to the vague prestige of saying, 'When I was at Cambridge,' even if they’re broke and unfulfilled later in life. We’ve reached a point where a top school ranking is falsely equated with intelligence, and elite private schools are treated as nothing more than expensive status symbols.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

Yea, well, you’re not getting into UVA with 50 percent of the effort so

For some students sitting at the top of their class with all the hard courses and yet had more hours of sleep than the grinder group below them, yes aiming UVA would be phoning it in based on their processing speed and self discipline. UVA is a safety for these students, they are at the top corner of the sea of green checks on SCIOR and they could have gotten in with much less effort and slightly easier classes.

You’re talking about a tiny minority and being ridiculous. Sure, there is a small subset of kids for whom UVA might be close to a given who aren’t getting into anywhere better but not very many. The so called UVA shoo ins are getting plenty of other excellent offers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

This is such bullshit. How the hell do you know what “most top in-state students feel about UVA?” What makes is “just a fact?” That YOU say so?

Two thirds of in state kids admitted to UVA choose to go? Do you really think that none of those kids—virtually all of whom were high achievers—did not have any more highly ranked options? How can you possible speak for thousands of kids?

It is not BS, there are plenty of us on here who have top students at top schools where UVA is not the desired outcome.
The 2/3 number includes those who ED. At our kids schools, a private and a public magnet, UVA is a backup for top students. It is rare anyone in the top 5-10% ED there. Kids lower down ED when the counselors make it clear junior year that they have no shot at ivies/stanford/JHU. The instate yield for EA at UVA is under 40%.

[Anonymous]

How about turning the tide by starting from
1. no college ranking
2. tuition free for everyone. especially those operate their schools like hedge funds

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- my question was, what is the purpose of this obsession? What is the outcome that parents are looking for? Doesn’t everyone want their kids to be happy, responsible, independent, social and have friends ? Eventually settle down and get married and have their own families? How much of that has anything to do with what college they go to? Does going to UVA or UMD vs Harvard or Stanford mean the kid is unable to live a meaningful life? Be happy, independent and responsible?

NO. They want their kids to make money. There is a huge sector of the "top10 or bust" striver crowd that puts this above all else. That's honestly it's often private school kids who turn down Ivies for UVA or Michigan or other lower ranked schools based on fit.

Come on, you have to know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our goal is a job offer and zero student debt in an environment they enjoyed for 4 years. That’s it.

This!! DC is turning down higher ranked and more "prestigious" schools with less merit aid to attend the school that he felt was the right fit and a ton of merit. He will graduate debt-free and have funds leftover for grad school. So far he doesn't seem to be wavering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- my question was, what is the purpose of this obsession? What is the outcome that parents are looking for? Doesn’t everyone want their kids to be happy, responsible, independent, social and have friends ? Eventually settle down and get married and have their own families? How much of that has anything to do with what college they go to? Does going to UVA or UMD vs Harvard or Stanford mean the kid is unable to live a meaningful life? Be happy, independent and responsible?

Total strawmen. Kid is very driven and wants a super intense smart peer group and has put an insane amount of energy toward that goal. Will he be fine if it doesn’t work out? Of course. Do I hope he gets what he wants because he’s my kid? Yes, that too.

I went to a highly selective school and it did make a difference in my life, in terms of meeting brilliant peers, so it’s hard for me to be completely dismissive of why someone might want that, even if it’s not the most important thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

This is such bullshit. How the hell do you know what “most top in-state students feel about UVA?” What makes is “just a fact?” That YOU say so?

Two thirds of in state kids admitted to UVA choose to go? Do you really think that none of those kids—virtually all of whom were high achievers—did not have any more highly ranked options? How can you possible speak for thousands of kids?

It is not BS, there are plenty of us on here who have top students at top schools where UVA is not the desired outcome.
The 2/3 number includes those who ED. At our kids schools, a private and a public magnet, UVA is a backup for top students. It is rare anyone in the top 5-10% ED there. Kids lower down ED when the counselors make it clear junior year that they have no shot at ivies/stanford/JHU. The instate yield for EA at UVA is under 40%.

Yes it is bullshit. That there are “plenty of us on here” who feel like that—whether true or not—does not mean “most in-state students feel this way.” It may mean that “many” of the posters on this silly website might—might—feel that way, but that doesn’t mean “most in state” kids do. Not by a long shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

Agree with this 100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

Yea, well, you’re not getting into UVA with 50 percent of the effort so

For some students sitting at the top of their class with all the hard courses and yet had more hours of sleep than the grinder group below them, yes aiming UVA would be phoning it in based on their processing speed and self discipline. UVA is a safety for these students, they are at the top corner of the sea of green checks on SCIOR and they could have gotten in with much less effort and slightly easier classes.

You’re talking about a tiny minority and being ridiculous. Sure, there is a small subset of kids for whom UVA might be close to a given who aren’t getting into anywhere better but not very many. The so called UVA shoo ins are getting plenty of other excellent offers.

Those kids exist and are often friends with other students in their class also in the top right cluster of SCOIR. At boarding schools the admit range of UVA and other T25s extends to the middle of the class. All I am saying is it happens and whether it is common or not depends on your perspective and where your kid and their friends sit. There is nothing wrong or invalid for that group to feel as though UVA is a let down that they could have achieved with less work. Goodness I have seen multiple valedictorians give whole speeches on that theme. Poor choice to not consider their audience, of course, but they are not alone in their thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- my question was, what is the purpose of this obsession? What is the outcome that parents are looking for? Doesn’t everyone want their kids to be happy, responsible, independent, social and have friends ? Eventually settle down and get married and have their own families? How much of that has anything to do with what college they go to? Does going to UVA or UMD vs Harvard or Stanford mean the kid is unable to live a meaningful life? Be happy, independent and responsible?

NO. They want their kids to make money. There is a huge sector of the "top10 or bust" striver crowd that puts this above all else. That's honestly it's often private school kids who turn down Ivies for UVA or Michigan or other lower ranked schools based on fit.

Come on, you have to know this.

It is not OBSESSION. It is survival instinct because of wealth inequality and the exploitation of the middle class.