What is the desired outcome?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

This is such bullshit. How the hell do you know what “most top in-state students feel about UVA?” What makes is “just a fact?” That YOU say so?

Two thirds of in state kids admitted to UVA choose to go? Do you really think that none of those kids—virtually all of whom were high achievers—did not have any more highly ranked options? How can you possible speak for thousands of kids?

Please stop being defensive. This isn't about the choices your kids made. Sheesh. Walk away from the computer and get a glass of water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

Agree with this 100%

Well in that case it must indeed be “just a fact.” Thanks for clearing that up. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Since this is anonymous I will just say this frankly. The sub-set of kids that are very smart, popular, non-geeky, social, and sporty choose Michigan or UVA over “top tier” options due to fit. They want top academics, Greek life, parties, huge sports events in a fun college town. That just isn’t happening at most top schools these days. People say Duke or Northwestern are still like this, but that is not we are hearing from kids that currently attend.

They aren’t “choosing” uva over a top tier school, they are either applying there (to go with a safer top choice rather than risking throwing away an ed at a highly rejective school) OR were rejected from a better ranked school (and still not choosing uva).

It’s a great school, but the kids who worked really hard in HS often want the chance at a better ranked school, esp if cost is not a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

Agree with this 100%

Also agree. I know the are phenomenal schools and wouldn’t even an option for one of mine, but the other at an Ivy absolutely viewed it that way. I know their similar high achieving peers did also. They don’t want to land in the same place as those smart but less serious or goofed off peers end up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

This is such bullshit. How the hell do you know what “most top in-state students feel about UVA?” What makes is “just a fact?” That YOU say so?

Two thirds of in state kids admitted to UVA choose to go? Do you really think that none of those kids—virtually all of whom were high achievers—did not have any more highly ranked options? How can you possible speak for thousands of kids?

It is not BS, there are plenty of us on here who have top students at top schools where UVA is not the desired outcome.
The 2/3 number includes those who ED. At our kids schools, a private and a public magnet, UVA is a backup for top students. It is rare anyone in the top 5-10% ED there. Kids lower down ED when the counselors make it clear junior year that they have no shot at ivies/stanford/JHU. The instate yield for EA at UVA is under 40%.

Yes it is bullshit. That there are “plenty of us on here” who feel like that—whether true or not—does not mean “most in-state students feel this way.” It may mean that “many” of the posters on this silly website might—might—feel that way, but that doesn’t mean “most in state” kids do. Not by a long shot.

Most ACCEPTED students who did not ED do not choose UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

Agree with this 100%

Also agree. I know the are phenomenal schools and wouldn’t even an option for one of mine, but the other at an Ivy absolutely viewed it that way. I know their similar high achieving peers did also. They don’t want to land in the same place as those smart but less serious or goofed off peers end up.

Isn't college admission seen as the pinnacle of a K-12 education? So, for one striving for so long, it's okay if they want more than whatever U-__ fill in the blank...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What outcome are people really hoping for?

I recently spoke with a friend who was upset that the highest-ranked school her child was accepted to was UVA. Both she and her child questioned the point of all their effort if that was the result—they’re now holding out hope for an Ivy acceptance. It made me wonder: is this really how families measure the value of their high school years?

Getting into a prestigious college shouldn’t be the ultimate goal. College lasts four years—and those years go by quickly. Then what? Do we spend enough time thinking about what comes after?

Many of us invest years preparing our children for “success,” often defining that success as admission to a highly ranked university. But that’s a narrow way of thinking. A fulfilling, meaningful life isn’t determined by the name of a college—it’s shaped by curiosity, resilience, relationships, and purpose. Maybe it’s time we start valuing those just as much, if not more, than a ranking.

What I do not understand is why so many of us, myself included, focus on college admissions and then attendance as the key to our children's futures when their chose of a spouse is the #1 thing that will influence, impact and direct the rest of their lives. Yet, most of us do nothing to guide our children with the most decision of their lives.

[Anonymous]

Ivy or burst now sells better to overseas rich families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Since this is anonymous I will just say this frankly. The sub-set of kids that are very smart, popular, non-geeky, social, and sporty choose Michigan or UVA over “top tier” options due to fit. They want top academics, Greek life, parties, huge sports events in a fun college town. That just isn’t happening at most top schools these days. People say Duke or Northwestern are still like this, but that is not we are hearing from kids that currently attend.

They aren’t “choosing” uva over a top tier school, they are either applying there (to go with a safer top choice rather than risking throwing away an ed at a highly rejective school) OR were rejected from a better ranked school (and still not choosing uva).

It’s a great school, but the kids who worked really hard in HS often want the chance at a better ranked school, esp if cost is not a factor.

And frankly for those of us in the 150-200k HHI, the ivies and simlar are cheaper than UVA instate. UVA gives no aid to us, elite schools give enough to make it lower than in-state total cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What outcome are people really hoping for?

I recently spoke with a friend who was upset that the highest-ranked school her child was accepted to was UVA. Both she and her child questioned the point of all their effort if that was the result—they’re now holding out hope for an Ivy acceptance. It made me wonder: is this really how families measure the value of their high school years?

Getting into a prestigious college shouldn’t be the ultimate goal. College lasts four years—and those years go by quickly. Then what? Do we spend enough time thinking about what comes after?

Many of us invest years preparing our children for “success,” often defining that success as admission to a highly ranked university. But that’s a narrow way of thinking. A fulfilling, meaningful life isn’t determined by the name of a college—it’s shaped by curiosity, resilience, relationships, and purpose. Maybe it’s time we start valuing those just as much, if not more, than a ranking.

What I do not understand is why so many of us, myself included, focus on college admissions and then attendance as the key to our children's futures when their chose of a spouse is the #1 thing that will influence, impact and direct the rest of their lives. Yet, most of us do nothing to guide our children with the most decision of their lives.

Maybe we are? But this is the college board lady...not relationships. Get a life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

This is such bullshit. How the hell do you know what “most top in-state students feel about UVA?” What makes is “just a fact?” That YOU say so?

Two thirds of in state kids admitted to UVA choose to go? Do you really think that none of those kids—virtually all of whom were high achievers—did not have any more highly ranked options? How can you possible speak for thousands of kids?

Please stop being defensive. This isn't about the choices your kids made. Sheesh. Walk away from the computer and get a glass of water.

I’m not being remotely defensive. I had kids who wanted to go to UVA and went, and I had others who didn’t even apply and went private. The difference is, I don’t base my views on what “most” people do based solely on my personal experience.

DCUM is chock full of know-it-all posters who present opinion as fact. It’s one of its worst attributes and when I see it I call it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our goal is a job offer and zero student debt in an environment they enjoyed for 4 years. That’s it.

This!! DC is turning down higher ranked and more "prestigious" schools with less merit aid to attend the school that he felt was the right fit and a ton of merit. He will graduate debt-free and have funds leftover for grad school. So far he doesn't seem to be wavering.

This is our child as well. She has a very particular set of criteria for a college (that wouldn't be mine, necessarily, but I'm not the one going to college) and she aimed very specifically for one school that fit. She got into T40 to T100 schools and will probably go to the one that is closer to T100.

DH started off at one school, transferred out, and came right back to the original school for his junior year. We've seen what ignoring fit can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And there's always Chicago which is an easier admit than UVA or Michigan.

IS it?? Only if you ED, though, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Correct. My friend's kid did not get into ivy as legacy or any other elites but did get into UVA OOS.
They were disappointed but glad they did not have to go to their flagship(UNC) because that would be a huge let down in state for a top-few student in the class. That is how most top in-state VA students feel about UVA, just a fact. The world is competitive and many of these students want the gold star for getting into the ivy type, even though they can reach almost every lifetime goal at UVA or UNC.

This is such bullshit. How the hell do you know what “most top in-state students feel about UVA?” What makes is “just a fact?” That YOU say so?

Two thirds of in state kids admitted to UVA choose to go? Do you really think that none of those kids—virtually all of whom were high achievers—did not have any more highly ranked options? How can you possible speak for thousands of kids?

It is not BS, there are plenty of us on here who have top students at top schools where UVA is not the desired outcome.
The 2/3 number includes those who ED. At our kids schools, a private and a public magnet, UVA is a backup for top students. It is rare anyone in the top 5-10% ED there. Kids lower down ED when the counselors make it clear junior year that they have no shot at ivies/stanford/JHU. The instate yield for EA at UVA is under 40%.

Yes it is bullshit. That there are “plenty of us on here” who feel like that—whether true or not—does not mean “most in-state students feel this way.” It may mean that “many” of the posters on this silly website might—might—feel that way, but that doesn’t mean “most in state” kids do. Not by a long shot.

Most ACCEPTED students who did not ED do not choose UVA.

Right. And the same can be said about many many colleges. Top students apply to 20 schools or more these days and the yield for many schools has dropped as a result. It wasn’t long ago where UVA’s yield was over 50 percent.

I’m not denying that there are “ivy or bust” students who are left bitterly disappointed when their top admit is of UVA caliber. But when that happens it’s because they were being unrealistic. There are plenty of kids at UVA who were thrilled to get in. Whether it’s “many” or “most” is impossible to quantify. That’s where I differ with the know-it-all posters. I don’t pretend to know.

[Anonymous]

You all missed OP’s point. Lack of reading comprehension skills ..