How did you tell your spouse the marriage is over? Especially if abuse was present??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had to wait until the divorce was “his idea”, otherwise he’d torture me.

Abusers will engage in post-separation abuse. And it's bad. The only recourse is to document, document, document, prove things, and get it to stop.

All communication in writing - use an app to turn texts into a court-admissable format or use OurFamilyWizard or just email. Organize everything. Tell your story like a paralegal. Even then you might not stop the post-separation abuse, but with a good judge you can indeed make it a lot better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Divorce is no joke. Get couples counseling

Terrible advice. There’s no rehabilitation for abuse - do NOT go to couples counseling with an abuser OP.

There's not no rehabilitation for abuse. The batterer's intervention program in my area says close to a quarter of their participants don't re-offend by abusing to the point of it being criminal. And statistics show among those who don't get caught up in the system 8-9% can change for real - down to the heart, stopping verbal and emotional abuse.

But less than 1 out of 10 ain't great. Pretty similar to the statistics for substance use disorders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Divorce is no joke. Get couples counseling

Terrible advice. There’s no rehabilitation for abuse - do NOT go to couples counseling with an abuser OP.

There's not no rehabilitation for abuse. The batterer's intervention program in my area says close to a quarter of their participants don't re-offend by abusing to the point of it being criminal. And statistics show among those who don't get caught up in the system 8-9% can change for real - down to the heart, stopping verbal and emotional abuse.

But less than 1 out of 10 ain't great. Pretty similar to the statistics for substance use disorders.

Op does not need to be one of the 9/10. She can, and is, leaving for her safety. Stop trying to encourage unsafe behaviors to women experiencing abuse!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Divorce is no joke. Get couples counseling

Terrible advice. There’s no rehabilitation for abuse - do NOT go to couples counseling with an abuser OP.

There's not no rehabilitation for abuse. The batterer's intervention program in my area says close to a quarter of their participants don't re-offend by abusing to the point of it being criminal. And statistics show among those who don't get caught up in the system 8-9% can change for real - down to the heart, stopping verbal and emotional abuse.

But less than 1 out of 10 ain't great. Pretty similar to the statistics for substance use disorders.

Op does not need to be one of the 9/10. She can, and is, leaving for her safety. Stop trying to encourage unsafe behaviors to women experiencing abuse!

PP here. I've left my abuser and I didn't tell OP not to do the same. I simply pointed out statistics show there is rehabilitation for some abusers. It's actually not terribly hard to tell if they're really changed. Do they let you take the time and space you need to heal, without pushing, and acknowledge what they've done? Do they sustain that behavior over time, and course correct if they slip into old bad habits?

Which means you have to leave to even know if they're changing, really.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

We talked this past summer (well, he didn't say much at all) and said our problems were a wake up call.

Well.. here we are 6 months later and zero change.

So, I know nothing will happen, therapy or not. I have to work to move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry op, but I will be brutally honest. Divorce is going to be very hard on your kids. Try couples and individual therapy, if only for the sake of your kids. Maybe he doesn’t even deserve that but in the long run it would be worth it. Either way get a job so you a) change the power dynamic that makes him not appreciate you or feel trapped and b) will be exit ready. Don’t just take any job though get one that has earning and growth potential and is kid friendly like teaching or nursing since you are the primary parent. If you do divorce don’t keep the house. Downsize. Don’t bother fighting 50/50 just gradually offer to take more childcare hours without asking for more money. Realize he will likely remarry and may even have more kids and your kids will have a stepmom. Good luck.

Do you have any reason to say any of this? You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

In cases of abuse couple's therapy is contra-indicated: abusers use it as another place to abuse, though aware and skilled therapists will catch on and stop the therapy. But those who aren't aware will let it happen or even pile on.

Yes divorce will be hard - abusers tend to also emotionally abuse the kids and parental alientation is a family systems problem that gets exacerbated by everything about the divorce process.

Yes courts have moved towards defaulting to 50/50, but good documentation can prove a lot of things and spousal support exists.

Whether or not OP's DH remarries has no bearing on the choice she needs to make right now for her safety. Did you miss the part about SAFETY? ABUSE?

NP- did OP indicate there is a safety issue? I see the communication going from 'he is angry' and 'he ignores us' to other people saying it's DV and she needs a safety plan. That's a big leap. 50/50 is pretty much guaranteed unless there is documented significant PHYSICAL abuse of the kids, and that would require an expensive court battle in many cases. I haven't heard anything like that from OP and frankly as a woman, i've become disenchanted with how many female support groups immediately jump to 'all men are abusers' and 'any expression of anger by another person is 'dangerous' and 'emotional abuse'. i am also hearing a lot of people use words like 'coercive control' too. its too much. women have agency too. why are we making them all victims all the time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had to wait until the divorce was “his idea”, otherwise he’d torture me.

Unfortunately that didn't stop my cousin's ex from making her life a living hell. He refused child support literally quit and was paid under the table, sabotaged get jobs and made wild accusations against her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry op, but I will be brutally honest. Divorce is going to be very hard on your kids. Try couples and individual therapy, if only for the sake of your kids. Maybe he doesn’t even deserve that but in the long run it would be worth it. Either way get a job so you a) change the power dynamic that makes him not appreciate you or feel trapped and b) will be exit ready. Don’t just take any job though get one that has earning and growth potential and is kid friendly like teaching or nursing since you are the primary parent. If you do divorce don’t keep the house. Downsize. Don’t bother fighting 50/50 just gradually offer to take more childcare hours without asking for more money. Realize he will likely remarry and may even have more kids and your kids will have a stepmom. Good luck.

Do you have any reason to say any of this? You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

In cases of abuse couple's therapy is contra-indicated: abusers use it as another place to abuse, though aware and skilled therapists will catch on and stop the therapy. But those who aren't aware will let it happen or even pile on.

Yes divorce will be hard - abusers tend to also emotionally abuse the kids and parental alientation is a family systems problem that gets exacerbated by everything about the divorce process.

Yes courts have moved towards defaulting to 50/50, but good documentation can prove a lot of things and spousal support exists.

Whether or not OP's DH remarries has no bearing on the choice she needs to make right now for her safety. Did you miss the part about SAFETY? ABUSE?

NP- did OP indicate there is a safety issue? I see the communication going from 'he is angry' and 'he ignores us' to other people saying it's DV and she needs a safety plan. That's a big leap. 50/50 is pretty much guaranteed unless there is documented significant PHYSICAL abuse of the kids, and that would require an expensive court battle in many cases. I haven't heard anything like that from OP and frankly as a woman, i've become disenchanted with how many female support groups immediately jump to 'all men are abusers' and 'any expression of anger by another person is 'dangerous' and 'emotional abuse'. i am also hearing a lot of people use words like 'coercive control' too. its too much. women have agency too. why are we making them all victims all the time?

Stop trying to minimize OPs struggles. She doesn't need YOUR permission to divorce. It's actually dispicible to see another woman ( ) trying to coerce her into staying in an abusive relationship because it doesn't fit your magically high standards of abuse. Sorry, but no. Some of us want to enjoy our lives while we still have them, not be shackled to abusive men who make us miserable. It's really sad that you can't see there's a better option than being in a relationship like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had to wait until the divorce was “his idea”, otherwise he’d torture me.

Unfortunately that didn't stop my cousin's ex from making her life a living hell. He refused child support literally quit and was paid under the table, sabotaged get jobs and made wild accusations against her.

It's really sad to see men using their kids as leverage to "get back" at their ex. What kind of nasty human being refuses to support the child they created just because they are mad at the other parent?

[Anonymous]

You said your work is your kids. Are your children still preschool age? Are you a SAHM?

I would go back to work and get your kids into daycare. You will need to increase your level of independence in order to provide for yourself and your kids. Child support is his portion and hopefully he pays but you need your own portion to support you and the kids.

Once you have a job and the kids are in care during the day, you can contact agencies who can provide support with leaving and telling him. There are shelters you can stay in that don't have published addresses if you fear for your safety.

I wouldn't tell him you want a divorce now while you live with him and are dependent on him for your basic needs. If he is an angry person, that will only add to the anger and I can't see it going well.

[Anonymous]

I told him in front of a couples counselor. I said it was over and he needed to move out by the weekend. I told the counselor that I would step outside for 15 minutes and allow STBX to process with the therapist, and that when I came back, the only the I would be willing to discuss was how we would mutually tell our kids about the divorce.

It was a real dilemma for him, because he couldn’t pressure me without looking like an ass in front of the therapist. I don’t know what went down when I left him alone with the therapist, but whatever it was, it was helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I told him in front of a couples counselor. I said it was over and he needed to move out by the weekend. I told the counselor that I would step outside for 15 minutes and allow STBX to process with the therapist, and that when I came back, the only the I would be willing to discuss was how we would mutually tell our kids about the divorce.

It was a real dilemma for him, because he couldn’t pressure me without looking like an ass in front of the therapist. I don’t know what went down when I left him alone with the therapist, but whatever it was, it was helpful.

That works well if he is cooperative but he doesn't actually have to move out, so if you have someone who isn't cooperative and doesn't want to move out of their home or doesn't have another place to go, then you end up still living with them, even though they now know you want a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry op, but I will be brutally honest. Divorce is going to be very hard on your kids. Try couples and individual therapy, if only for the sake of your kids. Maybe he doesn’t even deserve that but in the long run it would be worth it. Either way get a job so you a) change the power dynamic that makes him not appreciate you or feel trapped and b) will be exit ready. Don’t just take any job though get one that has earning and growth potential and is kid friendly like teaching or nursing since you are the primary parent. If you do divorce don’t keep the house. Downsize. Don’t bother fighting 50/50 just gradually offer to take more childcare hours without asking for more money. Realize he will likely remarry and may even have more kids and your kids will have a stepmom. Good luck.

Do you have any reason to say any of this? You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

In cases of abuse couple's therapy is contra-indicated: abusers use it as another place to abuse, though aware and skilled therapists will catch on and stop the therapy. But those who aren't aware will let it happen or even pile on.

Yes divorce will be hard - abusers tend to also emotionally abuse the kids and parental alientation is a family systems problem that gets exacerbated by everything about the divorce process.

Yes courts have moved towards defaulting to 50/50, but good documentation can prove a lot of things and spousal support exists.

Whether or not OP's DH remarries has no bearing on the choice she needs to make right now for her safety. Did you miss the part about SAFETY? ABUSE?

NP- did OP indicate there is a safety issue? I see the communication going from 'he is angry' and 'he ignores us' to other people saying it's DV and she needs a safety plan. That's a big leap. 50/50 is pretty much guaranteed unless there is documented significant PHYSICAL abuse of the kids, and that would require an expensive court battle in many cases. I haven't heard anything like that from OP and frankly as a woman, i've become disenchanted with how many female support groups immediately jump to 'all men are abusers' and 'any expression of anger by another person is 'dangerous' and 'emotional abuse'. i am also hearing a lot of people use words like 'coercive control' too. its too much. women have agency too. why are we making them all victims all the time?

Stop trying to minimize OPs struggles. She doesn't need YOUR permission to divorce. It's actually dispicible to see another woman ( ) trying to coerce her into staying in an abusive relationship because it doesn't fit your magically high standards of abuse. Sorry, but no. Some of us want to enjoy our lives while we still have them, not be shackled to abusive men who make us miserable. It's really sad that you can't see there's a better option than being in a relationship like this.

Where did I tell her to stay? I asked if there was a safety issue. Is there? Why don’t you let her confirm instead of assuming?

And it matters what sort of abuse there is bc she will be sharing custody of her children with her ex. You don’t think that’s an important consideration?

[Anonymous]

"We are getting a divorce."

Which I had to repeat for a year. Then started a separation and divorce was finalized a year later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry op, but I will be brutally honest. Divorce is going to be very hard on your kids. Try couples and individual therapy, if only for the sake of your kids. Maybe he doesn’t even deserve that but in the long run it would be worth it. Either way get a job so you a) change the power dynamic that makes him not appreciate you or feel trapped and b) will be exit ready. Don’t just take any job though get one that has earning and growth potential and is kid friendly like teaching or nursing since you are the primary parent. If you do divorce don’t keep the house. Downsize. Don’t bother fighting 50/50 just gradually offer to take more childcare hours without asking for more money. Realize he will likely remarry and may even have more kids and your kids will have a stepmom. Good luck.

Do you have any reason to say any of this? You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

In cases of abuse couple's therapy is contra-indicated: abusers use it as another place to abuse, though aware and skilled therapists will catch on and stop the therapy. But those who aren't aware will let it happen or even pile on.

Yes divorce will be hard - abusers tend to also emotionally abuse the kids and parental alientation is a family systems problem that gets exacerbated by everything about the divorce process.

Yes courts have moved towards defaulting to 50/50, but good documentation can prove a lot of things and spousal support exists.

Whether or not OP's DH remarries has no bearing on the choice she needs to make right now for her safety. Did you miss the part about SAFETY? ABUSE?

NP- did OP indicate there is a safety issue? I see the communication going from 'he is angry' and 'he ignores us' to other people saying it's DV and she needs a safety plan. That's a big leap. 50/50 is pretty much guaranteed unless there is documented significant PHYSICAL abuse of the kids, and that would require an expensive court battle in many cases. I haven't heard anything like that from OP and frankly as a woman, i've become disenchanted with how many female support groups immediately jump to 'all men are abusers' and 'any expression of anger by another person is 'dangerous' and 'emotional abuse'. i am also hearing a lot of people use words like 'coercive control' too. its too much. women have agency too. why are we making them all victims all the time?

Stop trying to minimize OPs struggles. She doesn't need YOUR permission to divorce. It's actually dispicible to see another woman ( ) trying to coerce her into staying in an abusive relationship because it doesn't fit your magically high standards of abuse. Sorry, but no. Some of us want to enjoy our lives while we still have them, not be shackled to abusive men who make us miserable. It's really sad that you can't see there's a better option than being in a relationship like this.

DP. She will be tethered to him, they have kids together. She will be dealing with him for the next 10-15 years likely. She cited ‘anger issues’ and emotional abuse, not violence. He will absolutely get 50/50 custody. None of us knows if the marriage could or should be saved, but she needs to be prepared for the reality of coparenting irregardless. Some women regret divorce. Young kids is generally the toughest time on any marriage, many that survive that period generally used therapy to get through.