Helping judgmental grandparents understand that the college landscape has changed

[Anonymous]

I'd tell them to back the F off. They are not living in current times, their opinion is neither accurate nor wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I have to wonder if you yourself are disappointed or defensive about your kid’s college prospects and for that reason are doing a little projecting here.

??? Go away, troll.

It doesn’t make me a troll. If your parents were smart enough to have produced a tippy top college student they’re smart enough to have the changed landscape explained to them.

In your case, it’s more than that. It’s not just the changed landscape. It sounds like even under the prior landscape your kid wouldn’t have been Ivy material. Am I right? You made a point of saying that that’s how you raised him. So who are you trying to convince?

OP back. Thank you so much everyone for the comments and suggestions! I am reading them all and please please keep them coming. They are truly helpful.

The above pp is right in a sense about their point that I didn't raise my kid to be "Ivy material," but not right that I am defensive or unhappy about this. I have no idea, truly, how DD would have fared under the 1990s system. Like many folks, I can't imagine I'd have been admitted today to the places I got in then. I was a pretty typical upper-middle class kid with a lot of privilege and opportunities. I also grew up in a very high-pressure home where I was expected to perform and was afraid to be open with my parents if I didn't ace a test. DH and I knew we didn't want that environment for our kids. And of course our kids are who they are, they have the interests they have, and my goal is to support them in who they are and not try to mold them into someone else.

My parents are familiar with the fact that admissions stats have changed, but argue that that doesn't mean a whole lot because the admissions stats are low since students apply to so many more schools. I admit I haven't dug into the data myself though I assume there are also a lot more students applying to college now than 30 years ago. I guess I could gather more statistics on this though admit I'm a bit crabby to even spend time on this! But maybe it's worthwhile, I don't know.

I do think I need to really hold them at bay because as a pp warned, they could significantly ramp up the stress. I'm still struggling with exactly what to say and what to share and not share. It feels different than keeping out friends or more distant family. There I would find it easier to simply say, "This is a stressful time for DD but we'd love to share with you once she knows where she's going!" My parents will be outraged if I say something like that to them, but maybe I just need to suck it up and be a grownup here, and deal with it.

This situation is uncovering an underlying problem - your relationship with your parents, and the fact that they seem to hold great sway over your mental health. If you're afraid of their reactions regarding your family's life decisions, that speaks volumes. It's unfortunate that it's only now, at a time of great stress for your child, that this might be showdown time with your parents. They needed to learn their lesson many decades ago.

If you can find a way to wiggle out of a direct confrontation, sure. But they will keep doing this, for your next kid, or other life decisions. I would be blunt, and then let them have whatever fit they want.

I agree that the problem isn’t the changed college landscape or your daughter’s prospects, but the fact that your parents still have this much control over you and you feelings. If you weren’t able to freely tell them you didn’t ace a test, they were clearly controlling and you were fearful of them. Congrats on not repeating this dynamic with your own child. However, you still have a lot of work to do as it relates to your relationship with your parents. The healthiest dynamic would be for them not to be judgmental and just congratulate our daughter wherever that goes. But you’re not going to change them and it sounds like that’s not going to happen. The next healthiest dynamic would be fo you not to listen to them when they make comments about her school and not to let their comments impact your feelings one.single.bit. Why does it really matter what your parents think about your daughter’s college?

[Anonymous]

OP back and thanks again--really appreciate the input.

I should have clarified earlier that if my parents even hinted any of what I'm describing to DD it would be game over, I would vigorously push back at them, and they would be out of the loop pronto. But I actually don't think they will say anything to her, they will just say it all to me. I could be wrong, it's just a hunch right now.

I guess I need to think of what language to use. If they say, "So Larla took the SATs this morning, when will she get scores?" do I just say, "sorry, I can't share that with you"? Do we leave for a 5-day college visit and not even tell them we're away? Do we lie about where we're going? Maybe I'm making this too complicated but despite everything I love my parents, they have their flaws as we all do but also have good hearts, they are old and vulnerable in certain ways, and while I of course want to protect myself (which is why I'm posting here), I don't want to cause them unnecessary pain. I guess a solution may be to be as vague as possible while still sharing a very little bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd tell them to back the F off. They are not living in current times, their opinion is neither accurate nor wanted.

There are better, more respectful ways to handle this. Most grandparents have the best intentions for their grandchildren and their comments are often rooted in a good place. They just want “the best” for their grandchildren (and adult children!). However, they don’t always understand that the definition of “the best” has expanded. There are ways to make them feel involved and appreciated in this process without you or your kid losing your sanity- change the subject politely if it comes up. Talk about your other kids’ things. Talk about the news. If you feel comfortable, buy them a mug or shirt from a college visit or share pictures from that visit. Get them excited about the schools your kid is looking at.

[Anonymous]

OMG I am going through this now with my 80 year old MIL and my rising senior. This summer, my MIL constantly asked about college prospects. When hubby made the mistake of sharing schools, such as Case, Rochester, Hamilton, she responded that our daughter "can do way better than those." Then DH mentioned Boston College and she smirked and said "have her apply, she is going to get in." Like WHAT!? She's in her 80s and still status chasing.

Doesn't help that my idiot SIL took her own kid to Georgetown this summer, based on ZERO qualifications (I mean, if her kid was such a stud surely we would have heard all about it by now since kid is a rising junior!). This really jazzed my MIL up. She said my daughter should try for Georgetown, too. She said I am not aiming high enough for my kid, yet, we are using a private counselor who has given us great advice so far. I reiterated we are looking at good fit for DD above all else. But, I guess I should listen to the 80 year old who knows everything. Sigh. Long story short, I'm not telling her a thing going forward. Thanks for letting me vent, I was really pissed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP back and thanks again--really appreciate the input.

I should have clarified earlier that if my parents even hinted any of what I'm describing to DD it would be game over, I would vigorously push back at them, and they would be out of the loop pronto. But I actually don't think they will say anything to her, they will just say it all to me. I could be wrong, it's just a hunch right now.

I guess I need to think of what language to use. If they say, "So Larla took the SATs this morning, when will she get scores?" do I just say, "sorry, I can't share that with you"? Do we leave for a 5-day college visit and not even tell them we're away? Do we lie about where we're going? Maybe I'm making this too complicated but despite everything I love my parents, they have their flaws as we all do but also have good hearts, they are old and vulnerable in certain ways, and while I of course want to protect myself (which is why I'm posting here), I don't want to cause them unnecessary pain. I guess a solution may be to be as vague as possible while still sharing a very little bit.

It depends on what you want. I’m assuming that you cannot tell your parents to hold their judgment? Or even if you do, it won’t be successful?

So the question is do you want a little more space and distance? Or do you want to deal with your own anxiety when they ask questions and judge? This is your lane to pick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I have to wonder if you yourself are disappointed or defensive about your kid’s college prospects and for that reason are doing a little projecting here.

??? Go away, troll.

It doesn’t make me a troll. If your parents were smart enough to have produced a tippy top college student they’re smart enough to have the changed landscape explained to them.

In your case, it’s more than that. It’s not just the changed landscape. It sounds like even under the prior landscape your kid wouldn’t have been Ivy material. Am I right? You made a point of saying that that’s how you raised him. So who are you trying to convince?

PP you replied to. I am not the OP. I can just spot an argumentative contrarian a mile away. Just leave. You want to make OP feel bad, that's all. The people who have survived recent admissions cycle know what they're talking about - it's stressful when there are undue expectations, and Ivies are undue expectations even for the best students! If you don't get that, just leave.

Well, considering that the OP herself suggested I had a valid point . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP back and thanks again--really appreciate the input.

I should have clarified earlier that if my parents even hinted any of what I'm describing to DD it would be game over, I would vigorously push back at them, and they would be out of the loop pronto. But I actually don't think they will say anything to her, they will just say it all to me. I could be wrong, it's just a hunch right now.

I guess I need to think of what language to use. If they say, "So Larla took the SATs this morning, when will she get scores?" do I just say, "sorry, I can't share that with you"? Do we leave for a 5-day college visit and not even tell them we're away? Do we lie about where we're going? Maybe I'm making this too complicated but despite everything I love my parents, they have their flaws as we all do but also have good hearts, they are old and vulnerable in certain ways, and while I of course want to protect myself (which is why I'm posting here), I don't want to cause them unnecessary pain. I guess a solution may be to be as vague as possible while still sharing a very little bit.

OP the problem is you, not your parents. You’re still their little pleaser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remind my children, the purpose of a good education to learn and to grow as a person, not to wave a round a diploma, or throw your alma mater's sweatshirt in someone's face. It is unfortunate that the well-off (for the most part) use their privilege as a tool to gain/sustain entry, and as a tool to look down on others.

Harvard receives 60,000 applications a year (https://www.ivywise.com/blog/harvard-waitlist-how-hard-is-it-to-get-off-of-it/) if you are not one of the 3% that gets in, that must make you stupid, I guess (eye-roll emoji)...

Give the grandparents a thought exercise - what would the world look like if a great education was accessible and attainable for everyone? The artists can study art, the scientists science, etc. I think we would be better off as a species.

I attended CMU, and transferred to Northeastern (Physics major). I was very surprised to find out CMU, NU, and MIT all used the same physics book?! Then it dawned on me, you don't learn a different or "special" math at HYPSM... it's all the same stuff.

In 1989, my friend who was attending Stanford visited me at my dorm at Pitt. She immediately noticed we had the same textbook for our upper division Bio - Genetics elective.

[Anonymous]

I feel your pain on this one! My MIL was an absolute nut on this. Not only was she constantly asking where he was applying it was clear she was yammering with her friends as they all compared/competed through their grandkids.
What finally worked for us was that our son talked to her. He told her how hard it was, how stressed he and his friends were but most important of all he told her that if she could talk to him/be in a room with him without interrogating him about College process he couldn't be around her/talk to her until it was all done and over.
That worked, our begging her never did, my BIL and his wife whose daughter is a year older had tried when their daughter had gone through it and hadn't been able to shut her down. The impacted grandchild telling her she was out of line and she was risking their relationship did the trick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP back and thanks again--really appreciate the input.

I should have clarified earlier that if my parents even hinted any of what I'm describing to DD it would be game over, I would vigorously push back at them, and they would be out of the loop pronto. But I actually don't think they will say anything to her, they will just say it all to me. I could be wrong, it's just a hunch right now.

I guess I need to think of what language to use. If they say, "So Larla took the SATs this morning, when will she get scores?" do I just say, "sorry, I can't share that with you"? Do we leave for a 5-day college visit and not even tell them we're away? Do we lie about where we're going? Maybe I'm making this too complicated but despite everything I love my parents, they have their flaws as we all do but also have good hearts, they are old and vulnerable in certain ways, and while I of course want to protect myself (which is why I'm posting here), I don't want to cause them unnecessary pain. I guess a solution may be to be as vague as possible while still sharing a very little bit.

Wow, you really need to be spoonfed. And wow, are you enmeshed with your parents that they would explore your lives in such detail!

You share nothing. If you don't want to bluntly say: "We're not sharing anything about college admissions because you guys are too judgemental.", this is what you do:

"When is Larla taking her SAT?" - "Oh, we have to see, it depends on various things".
"What's on her list of colleges?" - "Oh, she made a tentative list, things can change."
"We notice you're skirting around all the info we need!" - "We're trying to manage our stress, oops, call on the other line."
"WHAT? YOU NEED TO TELL US! WE'RE YOUR PARENTS!" - "Right, sure, stress management is our top priority. Call you back later!"
"!@#%&*$#%R&)@W#($&*!#@^%$%^&%$@" - "Hmm-mm, I have to go now."
Email formally disinviting you from Big Family Thankgiving - no need to respond.
Email formally disinviting you from Big Family Christmas/Hanukkah - no need to respond.
Phones calls from all their proxies - start again from step 1.
Threats of disinheritance - if guaranteed inheritance more than 10M in trust, run back in haste and make nice, but protect Larla.

[Anonymous]

My in-laws are also college snobs. We shared nothing with them except at the end of the process to share where our DD was going to college.

I still remember how my mother-in-law was appalled that we didn’t share her SAT score. She accused me of sharing with my mother (which we did not). She kept saying “we want to be proud of her.” Really? You are only proud of her if her score is high?

They have 4 grandkids - she is the oldest and first to go through this process. I didn’t want it to be a pissing contest of which grandkids are smarter than the others. So glad we kept them out of the process.

Stay strong, OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d let your kids handle it, helping them if needed. Learning how to deal graciously with annoying or impolite people is a skill.
And you sound far too invested in what your parents think.

If you feel your DD is capable of doing this, it is a good suggestion. A lot of grandparents will go along with what their grandkids want, more so than their kids. She could gently tell them that the college application is stressful, she has a clear idea of what she wants and she would appreciate it if they don't make any inquiries to put stress on her until she has decided upon a school.

But it sounds like this is more of an issue for you than for her, and if so, there's no way around dealing with it yourself.

[Anonymous]

ALL OF THIS IS BAD ADVICE.

ALL YOU ARE DOING IS DEFERRING THE CRISIS!!!!

DEAL WITH IT NOW.

[Anonymous]

So far I’ve counted at least four responses where posters bash their mothers-in-law instead of dispensing useful advice. Never change, DCUM!