Helping judgmental grandparents understand that the college landscape has changed

[Anonymous]

The Naviance scattergrams are a good tactic.

[Anonymous]

tell them to use the Google machine and look up the acceptance rates and get back to you.

[Anonymous]

Having parents that didn't go to college, but gave us a good home filled with books, ideas and hobbies, I can't even concieve of people who think that only a small minority of colleges and the people who attend them are worthwhile.

What would snobs like this think of my parents? What would they think of me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel your pain on this one! My MIL was an absolute nut on this. Not only was she constantly asking where he was applying it was clear she was yammering with her friends as they all compared/competed through their grandkids.
What finally worked for us was that son talked to her. He told her how hard it was, how stressed he and his friends were but most important of all he told her that if she could talk to him/be in a room with him without interrogating him about College process he couldn't be around her/talk to her until it was all done and over.
That worked, our begging her never did, my BIL and his wife whose daughter is a year older had tried when their daughter had gone through it and hadn't been able to shut her down. The impacted grandchild telling her she was out of line and she was risking their relationship did the trick.

This is it

[Anonymous]

Protect your sanity and your Childs if these are not people who can be supportive, encouraging, and know when not to say something. It s a simple statement of, " the college landscape is extremely competitive and the process it very stressful for all involved. More than when you went to school or others, including myself. DC will examine a range of schools, put together a list, and we'll see what happens. We'll let you know where they ultimately decide to attend. I have every confidence that will end up in a school that is great for Them."

[Anonymous]

I am a grandparent and I am horrified by this thread. My grandchildren are a number of years away from applying to college and I do know how the landscape of college admissions has changed. So, I won't be assuming that my grandchildren can all get into HYPSMC.

Half a dozen years ago, were all of you aware of how the landscape has changed? Were all the parents of their classmates who have become more aware of how challenging the process is initially aware of that? If not and you and classmates' parents have learned, why do you think your parents can't? Remember that they are saying the things they are saying because they love their grandchildren and are interested in them and because they come to the discussion with the loving viewpoint that their grandchildren are very special and from that point of view think that even if the acceptance rate is 1 percent, their special grandchildren should be in that one percent. Saying "you have no right to know anything about this process" is truly a hurtful move.

So, early in your children's high school years, educate your parents. I agree with the advice to print out Naviance from your specific school--especially if your child attends one that knocks legacies, recruited athletes, etc. out of the data. You can also tell them that as a general rule of thumb, the median GPA and SAT/ACT scores of successful UNHOOKED applicants are at or slightly above the 75th percentile for the class as a whole. You can also explain the differences among SCEA, REA, EA, ED and RD. Explain that colleges don't just accept the most qualified applicants. They build a class and that a lot of the places are set aside for first generation students, recruited athletes, donors' kids, etc. Explain that many colleges, especially LACs, take most of the successful UNHOOKED applicants in the early decision round. Explain that many of the top public universities restrict the number of OOS applicants they accept. If your family feels it's necessary to pursue merit aid, explain that and that it means going a tier down. (It can help to say that many colleges won't take any younger kids into account in setting financial aid for the oldest and you just can't blow your savings on the oldest because you NEED to have money available for the younger ones.) If your kid's school has one of those general meetings explaining the admissions landscape and it's permitted to bring a grandparent along, consider doing that. (Your parents may have an easier time accepting reality if you're not the one trying to explain it.) Try to have these conversations outside the presence of your child and BE PATIENT. It may take a while for your parents to understand, but almost all of them will understand eventually.

If necessary, tell your parents that your child is stressed about all this and you are making an effort NOT to add to that pressure by having most conversations with your child be about college admissions. You would appreciate it if they refrained from asking your child questions during this process because you want their conversations with their grandchildren to be pleasant ones and you do NOT want your child to say or think "I don't want to go to grandma's house for Thanksgiving because all they will talk about is applying to college and I am so sick of talking about it." However, YOU will keep them generally informed. Then do that. Yes, you'll be annoyed with them plenty of times, but the goal here is to keep the pressure OFF your kids. If you don't tell your parents --or in-laws--anything, they are more likely to ask your child.

And if your parents do "see the light" use them as a resource. Many of them have more time than you do. So, if your kid wants a school of a certain size in a suburb with or without a strong Greek system where it's possible to double major in data science and philosophy or which offers merit aid to kids with certain stats, tell them and let them get involved in the hunt. Just as long as the suggestions go through you.

If appropriate, go so far as to tell them they can pick one school to add to the application list if it's one that uses the common app and doesn't require too many extra essays--especially if they will pay the application fee. And if that school happens to be their alma mater, allow it unless your kid's school limits the number of apps or the application requires too many essays.

Sorry for the novel...

[Anonymous]

Be vague, like “yeah we’ll see” then change the subject. Don’t tell them anything- not SAT, nothing. And don’t feel bad- you’re not doing anything wrong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remind my children, the purpose of a good education to learn and to grow as a person, not to wave a round a diploma, or throw your alma mater's sweatshirt in someone's face. It is unfortunate that the well-off (for the most part) use their privilege as a tool to gain/sustain entry, and as a tool to look down on others.

Harvard receives 60,000 applications a year (https://www.ivywise.com/blog/harvard-waitlist-how-hard-is-it-to-get-off-of-it/) if you are not one of the 3% that gets in, that must make you stupid, I guess (eye-roll emoji)...

Give the grandparents a thought exercise - what would the world look like if a great education was accessible and attainable for everyone? The artists can study art, the scientists science, etc. I think we would be better off as a species.

I attended CMU, and transferred to Northeastern (Physics major). I was very surprised to find out CMU, NU, and MIT all used the same physics book?! Then it dawned on me, you don't learn a different or "special" math at HYPSM... it's all the same stuff.

As someone who totally and completely sympathizes with OP here (seriously, there is life after college admissions, admissions officers are just humans, for example), I do want to also point out that college isn't only your textbook. Or why go at all?

Example - go look at Nobel prize winners (small group) or National Academy of Science members or Fortune 500 CEOs. Many examples of non T20 or 30 or 50 alumni. So lots of wiggle room even by these metrics by colleges - hopefully OP will share something that helps there.
(BTW MIT did not use the same CS textbooks as others, they wrote their own, but again, not the point)

In 1989, my friend who was attending Stanford visited me at my dorm at Pitt. She immediately noticed we had the same textbook for our upper division Bio - Genetics elective.

[Anonymous]

I pulled actual stats for my parents because i got tired of their BS. Like the acceptance rate for your school in the 1960’s was 33% and the acceptance rate for northeastern is now 6%, so stop pretending you’re amazing for having gone to an ivy

I was super blunt about it - no need to tiptoe around people who are fighting so hard to ignore reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having parents that didn't go to college, but gave us a good home filled with books, ideas and hobbies, I can't even concieve of people who think that only a small minority of colleges and the people who attend them are worthwhile.

What would snobs like this think of my parents? What would they think of me?

NP here,

My husband’s parents didn’t go to college. They built a wonderful loving home and raised their children well. My MIL passed away when my kids were very young but my FIL is the most amazing grandfather. My kids have learned so much from him

My mother is very much like OP’s except for that part about not saying the obnoxious things in front of the children. She absolutely looks down on my FIL and my husband, and on me for choosing him. The result is that she really isn’t a regular part of my children’s lives while my FIL is a huge part of their lives.

[Anonymous]

OP, I have been through the college application process with 4 kids. What I found to work best with persistent, inquiring friends and family is to pick one school (it can be any school but we picked a likely school they loved) and focus your discussions with others on this one school. This was the only school revealed or dicussed outside our home. DC didn’t ever mention any other schools. For example, if asked my one DC would mention Auburn. DC visited and loved Auburn. This was a likely school for them. If asked about other schools DC would say, “I am on the hunt for schools I like as much as Auburn” or “I am not sure where else I am applying because I love Auburn so much.” Nosey people got what they wanted (info on where they were applying) and it sort of stopped the discussion about schools. This DC ended up enrolling in UVA, but never discussed this school with anyone.

[Anonymous]

Hard for a grandparent to understand that your kid’s SAT score doesn’t mean the same thing as your SAT score from 30 years ago. However, I’m on the side of the posters who advocate a kinder, respectful, more inclusive approach. If the discussion comes up, keep it focused on the specific things that interest your child- not on comparisons with friends’ kids, siblings, cousins, etc. If you go on college visits to places unfamiliar to the grandparents, share a picture or two. Sometimes that snobby narrow attitude towards colleges is rooted in lack of familiarity. Talk up the colleges your kid is interested in, if the topic comes up. Finally, try to keep the conversations general and focused on topics other than college. That goes for the parents too. If the parents aren’t talking about it all the time, then hopefully the grandparents won’t either. Don’t provide opportunities for the topic to come up, if it’s that upsetting or stressful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am guessing I'm not alone in this, and am wondering how others have handled it.

I attended a HYPSM. My parents basically believe that maybe 10 colleges are good ones, and the rest are lousy. Or more precisely, the kids attending those other schools are not very bright or somehow not worthy. They literally roll their eyes at some of these schools, like Pitt and Wake Forest. I would be thrilled if my kid ended up at either of these! Not to mention many many others.

My parents sort of get that the college landscape has changed but not really, because they occasionally hear of some friend whose grandkid is going to Harvard or Columbia or some such, and then decide that those schools are attainable for my kids.

DH and I are trying to raise happy, healthy, secure kids who are motivated but also live a balanced life. My DD is about to enter 11th grade, and for the last couple years my parents have been pestering me on where she will be applying. I have avoided the subject, which until now hasn't been difficult because we've had no idea. But of course that will soon change and I am dreading upcoming conversations. DD is a great kid, but I think it's unlikely she'd be accepted (or even apply) to a tippy-top school.

What have others done in these situations, where parents/grandparents are relentlessly bringing this up every time they see you? Do you shut them out of the college search for your child (and to what extent? Would you not tell them you're visiting schools, or where you are visiting)? Would you refuse to share an SAT score if asked directly, and if your child didn't object to such sharing? Do you share limited information but then try to steer the conversation elsewhere? In my ideal world they would know nothing until DD has settled on where she is going but I am not sure if this is realistic, and what kind of friction would result. Thanks for any advice. I feel like I need to prepare myself but am not sure of the best approach.

The generation of people that are currently grandparent-age is the worst generation in the history of humanity. (Ex. A - Donald Trump, Ex. B - Bill Clinton) They’re terrible people. Just tell them to f-off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy and always remind my parents that my bosses have not!

Yeah….but then grandparents will pull out their own anecdotes and mention how Bezos went to Princeton or Gates dropped out of Harvard, or some other famous billionaire.

That’s why anecdotes suck on DCUM and in real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am guessing I'm not alone in this, and am wondering how others have handled it.

I attended a HYPSM. My parents basically believe that maybe 10 colleges are good ones, and the rest are lousy. Or more precisely, the kids attending those other schools are not very bright or somehow not worthy. They literally roll their eyes at some of these schools, like Pitt and Wake Forest. I would be thrilled if my kid ended up at either of these! Not to mention many many others.

My parents sort of get that the college landscape has changed but not really, because they occasionally hear of some friend whose grandkid is going to Harvard or Columbia or some such, and then decide that those schools are attainable for my kids.

DH and I are trying to raise happy, healthy, secure kids who are motivated but also live a balanced life. My DD is about to enter 11th grade, and for the last couple years my parents have been pestering me on where she will be applying. I have avoided the subject, which until now hasn't been difficult because we've had no idea. But of course that will soon change and I am dreading upcoming conversations. DD is a great kid, but I think it's unlikely she'd be accepted (or even apply) to a tippy-top school.

What have others done in these situations, where parents/grandparents are relentlessly bringing this up every time they see you? Do you shut them out of the college search for your child (and to what extent? Would you not tell them you're visiting schools, or where you are visiting)? Would you refuse to share an SAT score if asked directly, and if your child didn't object to such sharing? Do you share limited information but then try to steer the conversation elsewhere? In my ideal world they would know nothing until DD has settled on where she is going but I am not sure if this is realistic, and what kind of friction would result. Thanks for any advice. I feel like I need to prepare myself but am not sure of the best approach.

I told my mother that we aren’t discussing my oldest’s college search. That the entire topic is off the table. Every question is answered with “Sorry Grandma, he’s not ready to discuss his college search.”