Helping judgmental grandparents understand that the college landscape has changed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am guessing I'm not alone in this, and am wondering how others have handled it.

I attended a HYPSM. My parents basically believe that maybe 10 colleges are good ones, and the rest are lousy. Or more precisely, the kids attending those other schools are not very bright or somehow not worthy. They literally roll their eyes at some of these schools, like Pitt and Wake Forest. I would be thrilled if my kid ended up at either of these! Not to mention many many others.

My parents sort of get that the college landscape has changed but not really, because they occasionally hear of some friend whose grandkid is going to Harvard or Columbia or some such, and then decide that those schools are attainable for my kids.

DH and I are trying to raise happy, healthy, secure kids who are motivated but also live a balanced life. My DD is about to enter 11th grade, and for the last couple years my parents have been pestering me on where she will be applying. I have avoided the subject, which until now hasn't been difficult because we've had no idea. But of course that will soon change and I am dreading upcoming conversations. DD is a great kid, but I think it's unlikely she'd be accepted (or even apply) to a tippy-top school.

What have others done in these situations, where parents/grandparents are relentlessly bringing this up every time they see you? Do you shut them out of the college search for your child (and to what extent? Would you not tell them you're visiting schools, or where you are visiting)? Would you refuse to share an SAT score if asked directly, and if your child didn't object to such sharing? Do you share limited information but then try to steer the conversation elsewhere? In my ideal world they would know nothing until DD has settled on where she is going but I am not sure if this is realistic, and what kind of friction would result. Thanks for any advice. I feel like I need to prepare myself but am not sure of the best approach.

This erroneous belief is their problem, not yours.

I would shut them out of the college search altogether and definitely not share any SAT scores or similar information, including any academic information. That information belongs to your child and it is private.

+1. Though I suspect you have not pushed back firmly on this idea that only 10 schools are good ones. But this is ignorant, and you should tell them that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ALL OF THIS IS BAD ADVICE.

ALL YOU ARE DOING IS DEFERRING THE CRISIS!!!!

DEAL WITH IT NOW.

I HIT SEND SOMEHOW ACCIDENT.

THE WAY I SEE IT, YOU HAVE 3 OPTIONS.

1. QUESTION WHETHER YOUR DAUGHTER EVEN NEEDS TO GO TO COLLEGE IF SHE CAN'T GET INTO HYPSM, AFTER ALL, SHE IS JUST A GIRL.

2. ASK THEM HOW FAR DOWN THE COLLEGE PRESTIGE RANKINGS SHE WOULD HAVE TO DROP BEFORE WOULD THEY STOP LOVING HER?

3. POINT OUT THAT YOUR ALMA MATER USED TO HAVE AN ACCEPTANCE RATE HIGHER THAN BOSTON UNIVERSITY DOES NOW AND WITH A LOWER AVERAGE SAT SCORE. IF YOU HAVE TO... ADD HOW YOU HAD TO BLOW THE ADMISSIONS OFFICER TO GET IN AND IS THAT REALLY WHAT THEY WANT FOR THEIR GRANDDAUGHTER?

4. DESCRIBE HOW YOUR DAUGHTER BROKE DOWN IN TEARS BECAUSE OF ALL THE PRESSURE SHE FELT TO GO TO HYPSM BECAUSE YOU WENT THERE AND HOW GUILTY YOU FEEL ABOUT ALL THE PRESSURE YOU HAVE BEEN PUTTING ON HER AND PRACTICALLY STEALING HER CHILDHOOD TO RELIVE YOUR GLORY DAYS VICARIOUSLY THROUGH HER?

5. REMIND THEM THAT OF ALL THE LIFE EVENTS TO COME, COLLEGE IS NOT NEARLY AS IMPORTANT AS THINGS LIKE MARRIAGE AND YOU ARE MORE INVESTED IN MAKING SURE SHE DOESN'T SCREW THAT UP LIKE YOU DID.

SORRY FOR THE ALLCAPS, I AM USING A TELEX MACHINE.

[Anonymous]

I went to an Ivy and always remind my parents that my bosses have not!

[Anonymous]

OP – I haven’t read all of the replies to your post, but I recommend having a very simple conversation with the grandparents stating that because of the level of stress on your child, you’re no longer going to have conversations about college until the decision has been made.

Let them know that you appreciate their concern and their suggestions but you’re no longer able to have conversations or share information about it.

And then moving forward every time they ask about it say “we’re not able to share that information right now”. And just repeat that one sentence every time they ask – with absolutely no variations. Have your student practice that phrase too.

Eventually, the grandparents will get sick of hearing that same response and will stop asking. But everybody in the family has to stick to that one response. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Offspring of Asian parents here. Thirty years ago, the ivies were a status symbol in my parents’ immigrant crowd, a sign that they had “made it”. Then some of us (gasp) started going to liberal arts colleges. Now the parents in that crowd are in their 80’s and are less judgmental about where their grandchildren go to college- because they’ve had a generation to see that an Ivy or T-10 isn’t the only “golden ticket” out there.

[Anonymous]

I do wonder about the extent to which certain cultural differences explain varying reactions in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am guessing I'm not alone in this, and am wondering how others have handled it.

I attended a HYPSM. My parents basically believe that maybe 10 colleges are good ones, and the rest are lousy. Or more precisely, the kids attending those other schools are not very bright or somehow not worthy. They literally roll their eyes at some of these schools, like Pitt and Wake Forest. I would be thrilled if my kid ended up at either of these! Not to mention many many others.

My parents sort of get that the college landscape has changed but not really, because they occasionally hear of some friend whose grandkid is going to Harvard or Columbia or some such, and then decide that those schools are attainable for my kids.

DH and I are trying to raise happy, healthy, secure kids who are motivated but also live a balanced life. My DD is about to enter 11th grade, and for the last couple years my parents have been pestering me on where she will be applying. I have avoided the subject, which until now hasn't been difficult because we've had no idea. But of course that will soon change and I am dreading upcoming conversations. DD is a great kid, but I think it's unlikely she'd be accepted (or even apply) to a tippy-top school.

What have others done in these situations, where parents/grandparents are relentlessly bringing this up every time they see you? Do you shut them out of the college search for your child (and to what extent? Would you not tell them you're visiting schools, or where you are visiting)? Would you refuse to share an SAT score if asked directly, and if your child didn't object to such sharing? Do you share limited information but then try to steer the conversation elsewhere? In my ideal world they would know nothing until DD has settled on where she is going but I am not sure if this is realistic, and what kind of friction would result. Thanks for any advice. I feel like I need to prepare myself but am not sure of the best approach.

This erroneous belief is their problem, not yours.

I would shut them out of the college search altogether and definitely not share any SAT scores or similar information, including any academic information. That information belongs to your child and it is private.

+1

At any gathering where they attempt to discuss college or make your kid feel bad, you get up and depart after one warning. And if they do it many times, you simply don't see them until next May

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do wonder about the extent to which certain cultural differences explain varying reactions in this thread.

A lot depends on the experiences of the parents and grandparents. Grandparents who saw their kids go to Ivies May wonder why their grandchildren with better grades/activities aren’t applying or getting in. I went to a SLAC and my parents wondered why my kid wasn’t interested/applying. (Because my kid faced much steeper odds of getting in). I would just tell them it’s a lot harder now and leave it at that. Fortunately they were familiar enough with the places where my kid did apply and get in, and were enthusiastic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do wonder about the extent to which certain cultural differences explain varying reactions in this thread.

I'm Asian and am firmly on the side of being blunt and shutting them out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I have to wonder if you yourself are disappointed or defensive about your kid’s college prospects and for that reason are doing a little projecting here.

??? Go away, troll.

It doesn’t make me a troll. If your parents were smart enough to have produced a tippy top college student they’re smart enough to have the changed landscape explained to them.

In your case, it’s more than that. It’s not just the changed landscape. It sounds like even under the prior landscape your kid wouldn’t have been Ivy material. Am I right? You made a point of saying that that’s how you raised him. So who are you trying to convince?

OP back. Thank you so much everyone for the comments and suggestions! I am reading them all and please please keep them coming. They are truly helpful.

The above pp is right in a sense about their point that I didn't raise my kid to be "Ivy material," but not right that I am defensive or unhappy about this. I have no idea, truly, how DD would have fared under the 1990s system. Like many folks, I can't imagine I'd have been admitted today to the places I got in then. I was a pretty typical upper-middle class kid with a lot of privilege and opportunities. I also grew up in a very high-pressure home where I was expected to perform and was afraid to be open with my parents if I didn't ace a test. DH and I knew we didn't want that environment for our kids. And of course our kids are who they are, they have the interests they have, and my goal is to support them in who they are and not try to mold them into someone else.

My parents are familiar with the fact that admissions stats have changed, but argue that that doesn't mean a whole lot because the admissions stats are low since students apply to so many more schools. I admit I haven't dug into the data myself though I assume there are also a lot more students applying to college now than 30 years ago. I guess I could gather more statistics on this though admit I'm a bit crabby to even spend time on this! But maybe it's worthwhile, I don't know.

I do think I need to really hold them at bay because as a pp warned, they could significantly ramp up the stress. I'm still struggling with exactly what to say and what to share and not share. It feels different than keeping out friends or more distant family. There I would find it easier to simply say, "This is a stressful time for DD but we'd love to share with you once she knows where she's going!" My parents will be outraged if I say something like that to them, but maybe I just need to suck it up and be a grownup here, and deal with it.

This situation is uncovering an underlying problem - your relationship with your parents, and the fact that they seem to hold great sway over your mental health. If you're afraid of their reactions regarding your family's life decisions, that speaks volumes. It's unfortunate that it's only now, at a time of great stress for your child, that this might be showdown time with your parents. They needed to learn their lesson many decades ago.

If you can find a way to wiggle out of a direct confrontation, sure. But they will keep doing this, for your next kid, or other life decisions. I would be blunt, and then let them have whatever fit they want.

I agree that the problem isn’t the changed college landscape or your daughter’s prospects, but the fact that your parents still have this much control over you and you feelings. If you weren’t able to freely tell them you didn’t ace a test, they were clearly controlling and you were fearful of them. Congrats on not repeating this dynamic with your own child. However, you still have a lot of work to do as it relates to your relationship with your parents. The healthiest dynamic would be for them not to be judgmental and just congratulate our daughter wherever that goes. But you’re not going to change them and it sounds like that’s not going to happen. The next healthiest dynamic would be fo you not to listen to them when they make comments about her school and not to let their comments impact your feelings one.single.bit. Why does it really matter what your parents think about your daughter’s college?

+1

Who cares if they are outraged?

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of people here who are still living in the 80s 90s too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I have to wonder if you yourself are disappointed or defensive about your kid’s college prospects and for that reason are doing a little projecting here.

??? Go away, troll.

It doesn’t make me a troll. If your parents were smart enough to have produced a tippy top college student they’re smart enough to have the changed landscape explained to them.

In your case, it’s more than that. It’s not just the changed landscape. It sounds like even under the prior landscape your kid wouldn’t have been Ivy material. Am I right? You made a point of saying that that’s how you raised him. So who are you trying to convince?

OP back. Thank you so much everyone for the comments and suggestions! I am reading them all and please please keep them coming. They are truly helpful.

The above pp is right in a sense about their point that I didn't raise my kid to be "Ivy material," but not right that I am defensive or unhappy about this. I have no idea, truly, how DD would have fared under the 1990s system. Like many folks, I can't imagine I'd have been admitted today to the places I got in then. I was a pretty typical upper-middle class kid with a lot of privilege and opportunities. I also grew up in a very high-pressure home where I was expected to perform and was afraid to be open with my parents if I didn't ace a test. DH and I knew we didn't want that environment for our kids. And of course our kids are who they are, they have the interests they have, and my goal is to support them in who they are and not try to mold them into someone else.

My parents are familiar with the fact that admissions stats have changed, but argue that that doesn't mean a whole lot because the admissions stats are low since students apply to so many more schools. I admit I haven't dug into the data myself though I assume there are also a lot more students applying to college now than 30 years ago. I guess I could gather more statistics on this though admit I'm a bit crabby to even spend time on this! But maybe it's worthwhile, I don't know.

I do think I need to really hold them at bay because as a pp warned, they could significantly ramp up the stress. I'm still struggling with exactly what to say and what to share and not share. It feels different than keeping out friends or more distant family. There I would find it easier to simply say, "This is a stressful time for DD but we'd love to share with you once she knows where she's going!" My parents will be outraged if I say something like that to them, but maybe I just need to suck it up and be a grownup here, and deal with it.

This situation is uncovering an underlying problem - your relationship with your parents, and the fact that they seem to hold great sway over your mental health. If you're afraid of their reactions regarding your family's life decisions, that speaks volumes. It's unfortunate that it's only now, at a time of great stress for your child, that this might be showdown time with your parents. They needed to learn their lesson many decades ago.

If you can find a way to wiggle out of a direct confrontation, sure. But they will keep doing this, for your next kid, or other life decisions. I would be blunt, and then let them have whatever fit they want.

I agree that the problem isn’t the changed college landscape or your daughter’s prospects, but the fact that your parents still have this much control over you and you feelings. If you weren’t able to freely tell them you didn’t ace a test, they were clearly controlling and you were fearful of them. Congrats on not repeating this dynamic with your own child. However, you still have a lot of work to do as it relates to your relationship with your parents. The healthiest dynamic would be for them not to be judgmental and just congratulate our daughter wherever that goes. But you’re not going to change them and it sounds like that’s not going to happen. The next healthiest dynamic would be fo you not to listen to them when they make comments about her school and not to let their comments impact your feelings one.single.bit. Why does it really matter what your parents think about your daughter’s college?

+1

Who cares if they are outraged?

I mean this kindly, OP needs therapy. I don’t understand being an adult with high school aged kids and still being concerned about what her parents think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do wonder about the extent to which certain cultural differences explain varying reactions in this thread.

I'm Asian and am firmly on the side of being blunt and shutting them out.

Same here (Indian).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I have to wonder if you yourself are disappointed or defensive about your kid’s college prospects and for that reason are doing a little projecting here.

??? Go away, troll.

It doesn’t make me a troll. If your parents were smart enough to have produced a tippy top college student they’re smart enough to have the changed landscape explained to them.

In your case, it’s more than that. It’s not just the changed landscape. It sounds like even under the prior landscape your kid wouldn’t have been Ivy material. Am I right? You made a point of saying that that’s how you raised him. So who are you trying to convince?

PP you replied to. I am not the OP. I can just spot an argumentative contrarian a mile away. Just leave. You want to make OP feel bad, that's all. The people who have survived recent admissions cycle know what they're talking about - it's stressful when there are undue expectations, and Ivies are undue expectations even for the best students! If you don't get that, just leave.

Well, considering that the OP herself suggested I had a valid point . . .

She was trying to be polite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I have to wonder if you yourself are disappointed or defensive about your kid’s college prospects and for that reason are doing a little projecting here.

??? Go away, troll.

It doesn’t make me a troll. If your parents were smart enough to have produced a tippy top college student they’re smart enough to have the changed landscape explained to them.

In your case, it’s more than that. It’s not just the changed landscape. It sounds like even under the prior landscape your kid wouldn’t have been Ivy material. Am I right? You made a point of saying that that’s how you raised him. So who are you trying to convince?

OP back. Thank you so much everyone for the comments and suggestions! I am reading them all and please please keep them coming. They are truly helpful.

The above pp is right in a sense about their point that I didn't raise my kid to be "Ivy material," but not right that I am defensive or unhappy about this. I have no idea, truly, how DD would have fared under the 1990s system. Like many folks, I can't imagine I'd have been admitted today to the places I got in then. I was a pretty typical upper-middle class kid with a lot of privilege and opportunities. I also grew up in a very high-pressure home where I was expected to perform and was afraid to be open with my parents if I didn't ace a test. DH and I knew we didn't want that environment for our kids. And of course our kids are who they are, they have the interests they have, and my goal is to support them in who they are and not try to mold them into someone else.

My parents are familiar with the fact that admissions stats have changed, but argue that that doesn't mean a whole lot because the admissions stats are low since students apply to so many more schools. I admit I haven't dug into the data myself though I assume there are also a lot more students applying to college now than 30 years ago. I guess I could gather more statistics on this though admit I'm a bit crabby to even spend time on this! But maybe it's worthwhile, I don't know.

I do think I need to really hold them at bay because as a pp warned, they could significantly ramp up the stress. I'm still struggling with exactly what to say and what to share and not share. It feels different than keeping out friends or more distant family. There I would find it easier to simply say, "This is a stressful time for DD but we'd love to share with you once she knows where she's going!" My parents will be outraged if I say something like that to them, but maybe I just need to suck it up and be a grownup here, and deal with it.

This situation is uncovering an underlying problem - your relationship with your parents, and the fact that they seem to hold great sway over your mental health. If you're afraid of their reactions regarding your family's life decisions, that speaks volumes. It's unfortunate that it's only now, at a time of great stress for your child, that this might be showdown time with your parents. They needed to learn their lesson many decades ago.

If you can find a way to wiggle out of a direct confrontation, sure. But they will keep doing this, for your next kid, or other life decisions. I would be blunt, and then let them have whatever fit they want.

I agree that the problem isn’t the changed college landscape or your daughter’s prospects, but the fact that your parents still have this much control over you and you feelings. If you weren’t able to freely tell them you didn’t ace a test, they were clearly controlling and you were fearful of them. Congrats on not repeating this dynamic with your own child. However, you still have a lot of work to do as it relates to your relationship with your parents. The healthiest dynamic would be for them not to be judgmental and just congratulate our daughter wherever that goes. But you’re not going to change them and it sounds like that’s not going to happen. The next healthiest dynamic would be fo you not to listen to them when they make comments about her school and not to let their comments impact your feelings one.single.bit. Why does it really matter what your parents think about your daughter’s college?

+1

Who cares if they are outraged?

I mean this kindly, OP needs therapy. I don’t understand being an adult with high school aged kids and still being concerned about what her parents think.

Sounds like you mean it judgmentally not kindly.