Elders sometimes become abusive toward those they were closest to, so please don't insert yourself

[Anonymous]

DH and his sibs are dealing with this as MIL ages. Her friends all think the kids are awful because MIL's personality is such that she spent most of her time before she got sick whining to them about how inattentive her kids are to her needs, which is not true in the least.

This really hurt DH as he grew up viewing most of these women as "aunties." The family has grown a backbone and cut these women out of their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes.

My mother tries to drive a wedge between siblings. It’s exhausting and has hurt relationships.

Then mother whines and cries that the family won’t all get together. It’s like she wants to create division and then force us all together after creating that division.

When I mentioned this to a friend, she asked why my mother would want to do that. I realized they had no understanding of narcissists or those with borderline and I vowed never to speak of this again to a friend without a mentally ill parent.

This is so familiar, but it's our entire extended family on both sides. Since I was maybe 4 I have heard terrible stories about my aunts/uncles/cousins on both side all from mom. When one of my siblings showed went beyond sibling rivalry into dark triad territory she gaslit us when we complained and gaslit teachers and others who expressed concern. Now she is just rage filled that we have no relationship with said sibling and don't go to extended family events. We also won't let her bash the extended family anymore. If she doesn't like them, then stop seeing them or discuss your feelings in therapy. (Ha! People around her go to therapy to process her abuse, but she can never stick with therapy for longer than a few sessions. She always declares herself cured and the easiest patient they ever had.

What's really fascinating is how easily she can recruit family members she despises and bashes to do her dirty work and try to reel us back in. I just don't have it in me to share with them what she really thinks of them because I cannot sink to her level. It makes me not respect them and not want to be around them, but yet I still don't ever want to make them feel the way I have felt my whole life. It's amazing even as she loser her filter she can refrain from telling what she told us so many years that this one is a fat loser with no impulse control and that one is a gold-digger who's boobs are the only decent part of her body, and that one is so stupid the parent's must have purchased his way into college and this one is just an ugly mess. Oh and the family member who was gay and dying of cancer? Her response was...what a waste-he's gay and they spent all that money on a fancy education only to have him die! She went to the funeral and somehow had only nice things to say. She's downright demonic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I’m looking into a crystal ball by reading your story, OP, but diffracted; Mother becoming more “difficult” (I’m so used to using protective, couching language I can’t even put more than this into words) as she maybe starts to slide into dementia, and Father who can suddenly be so snarling and hurtful, but just to Mother and me—the epitome of self-controlled, effortless, charming politeness to everyone else, so admired for his uniqueness (which is true)—and it’s getting worse these days. And again, I know I sound contrived and overly vague but I’m just not capable of writing any even remotely identifying detail on here, even though the likelihood of his being identified here is so slim. One amazing unexpected benefit when my husband came on the scene, was that my father has always been perfectly behaved around him, although there is a language difference so already there have been situations where he will only explain part of a dynamic in English when my husband is present, leaving it to me to be burdened with the rest.

We all live very far apart, and the distance makes me feel so much anxiety and guilt, but is also so good for me and my sanity, and maybe for all of us. In short chunks we can perform who we wish we were to each other, and pretend that is really who and how we are to each other.

But then after a while, I get convinced by this untruth and forget the reality, and wake up in the middle of the night with chest pain and crippling anxiety and guilt about being such an awful ungrateful daughter, which is offset next time I see them and they act insufferable, and my expectations reset and my guilt over mostly abandoning them is replaced by grief over the loss of the ideal and my inability to be what I wish I could be to them, and the cycle repeats.

I felt extreme guilt and anxiety due to having moved far away from home, knowing that I am my mom‘s favorite person in the world. She visits a ton (several months per year), and I also visit a lot. Yet, somehow it was never enough to assuage my guilt. Someone here recommended the book called the Midnight Library. Not a great piece of literature but it was like a saving anchor when I felt at my worst. It helped me understand that all the “what ifs” are so pointless as we never know how paths we didn’t take would have turned out. Yes they could have been better, but they could have turned into something much worse. So don’t beat yourself up. You are being a good daughter/son. Don’t let this most useless feeling on earth - guilt - ruin your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I feel like this isn't discussed enough. As I dealt with abusive year after year I felt crazy. So many people just adore my mother and they saw we had a good relationship at one point. (We had a good relationship because I accepted the concerning qualities and tried to focus on the good ones. The good ones faded and now she is downright abusive.) She still can turn it on for others-occasionally slips and it scares people, but mostly can hold it together. I want her to enjoy other people. I distanced myself so avoid further damage, but I want her to feel loved. Sadly a lot of that love comes from people seeking financial gain, but that's another story.

It is not anyone's place to insert themselves and try to guilt trip, or push an adult child to be closer to someone when they don't know what has gone on behind closed doors. I regret every second of emotional and verbal abuse my children and husband witnessed, and they saw the most benign of it. The worst of it was before I stopped ever being along.

I get that people are well-meaning and just want to see family harmony. I understand people cannot fathom what a monster another person can be to family, even if they saw glimpses, they go into denial. However, as long as the person is well cared for-and my mother is by strangers who are trained to work with her even if she gets snippy (nothing like she is with me) ...as long as the person is cared for-stay out it.

It is such a horrid feeling to have someone try to push you back to something that was destructive. It is even worse when you share the truth and are not believed. I wish we talked about this more and people understood, if someone breaks away, there is a reason. I spent many years in therapy to stop the abuse from happening. I finally found the only way to stop it was to distance myself. it's amazing how a person trying to do the right thing gets dehumanized and a person who abuses with abandon, gets put on a pedestal. (And it was happening before early dementia set in).

Anyone relate?

Yes, I can relate.

I estranged myself from my abusive parents when I reached age 30 - I just couldn't take anymore of what had been three decades of physical abuse, psychological abuse and sexual abuse from my father in my early childhood. I was very low key about the estrangement and didn't say anything but basics to other family, keeping the details to myself as I'd been conditioned (beaten into submission) to do from early childhood.

My narcissistic abusive mother, obviously obsessed with her perception that her veneer of a perfect family was eroded, invested much time in writing long letters to family members describing what an awful, difficult, messed up child I'd always been from day one - never mind that she'd always praised me publicly over my many achievements and I had no reputation for bad behavior and by this point had earned four university degrees including one from elite law school so nobody in the family who knew me well gave any credence to the letters and allegations.

Except one cousin (my favorite cousin early childhood), who is so deluded about my parents she believed the sudden allegations that I was secretly a terrible ungrateful child and she berated me at every opportunity for almost two decades over my estrangement from my parents, until I finally told her to F off and never contact me again.

Over the last few years since I blocked her and told her to never contact me, I've considered writing her a letter explaining to her that my two narcissistic parents had for decades called her and her mother adulterous whores behind their backs; that they'd referred to my cousin as my uncle's little bastard - maybe! (they questioned her parentage for decades claiming her mother got around so much she could be anybody's kid, etc. - pre-DNA era) in her early childhood and then when she got knocked up by a married man at 19 they'd trashed her endlessly for being the apple that fell straight down from the tree, an adulterous whore who steals other women's husbands; that for years when I'd begged my parents to bring my cousin to visit us after we moved several states away they'd told me she was trash and not worth the investment of funds, etc.

Basically, my narcissistic parents were incapable of loving their own kids much less this cousin who adores them and thinks they love her too because they've patted her on the head and been nice to her face on a half dozen, dozen at most occasions over 4 decades that they've even spent time with her (we have always lived several states apart). Part of me that is rigidly adherent to truth at this stage of life wants to spill the beans to my cousin, so she can know that she threw away a cousin who loved her for an auntie and uncle who laughed at her and mocked her behind her back for decades. But the bigger part of me says, what's the point?

She aligned herself with abusers - and she knew enough from my siblings to know that my parents were far from perfect, but didn't want to hear anything from me about what they'd inflicted on me growing up - so we aren't suited by matter of core values to have a close relationship anyway, there is nothing to salvage. If I told her the truth, I'd simply be blowing up one of her cherished delusions that helps her navigate her life. Her biological father, my uncle, died of cancer when she was six weeks old - after having blown up his life and marriage over his fling with her mother, a late teens/early twenties barmaid. Then her mother died of cancer when my cousin was only in her mid 20s. (My narcissistic mother, by the way, considers both of these early deaths to be karma for their infidelity - I'm telling you, my mom was a gem!) So my cousin looked to my parents, who she barely knew, as some kind of lifeline/connection to her dead parents and she doesn't want to hear about how my drunken raging violent father routinely raped his wife and beat her and his children, fingered his toddler daughter while reading her little golden books after drinking all night at the bar, raised his son to be an abusive narcissist who routinely abused his siblings and pimped his sister to his high school friends (I lost my virginity at age 14 to one of my older brother's high school friends who date raped me to win a bet with my brother over which of his friends could deflower me first), etc.

Wow that's a rant but it felt good to purge it. Should I write my cousin a letter telling her these and all the other ugly truths? Or let her keep thinking that auntie and uncle loved her?

I relate to this. Write the letter, but DON'T send it. I do not defend myself at all. I simply remain quiet and removed. All the people who support my mother have no idea how she is disgusted with them behind their back for being "fat" or "A phony" or "I think he's secretly gay and probably had gap affairs cheating on his wife" or "a loser." I have a cousin my mom suddenly pretends to adore. The cousin came to visit with her spouse and kids and my mother was afraid for the neighbors to see how fat they all are. She also thinks the husband is a loser. They think she is kindest most generous person. They have no idea how she obsesses about sneaking them in the door, hoping they wear black so they don't look so fat, worrying they will speak to neighbors and people will know they are losers.

Oh wow! This sounds like my mother! I came in here to see if anyone had written about being estranged from elderly parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I can relate.

I just tell people to their faces my mother is awful if I get a guilt trip or a comment about how I should be doing more. I have zero shame. I did nothing wrong and I don’t need to pretend. If people ask questions I answer them and if people say things to me that indicate they are clueless about how some parent-child relationships can be, I fill them in matter of fact. If they don’t like hearing it, oh well. Guess you shouldn’t have started the conversation.

I’m not uncomfortable with it. Genuinely. You shouldn’t be either. You have nothing to hide and covering for people and keeping things stuffed inside is toxic and makes you feel shame that you shouldn’t carry.

I love this. Thank you. I wish I could say, “well my mom was kind of a crappy mom to be and often ignored me. I read all the time even at dinner to have some company (only child). I was emotionally neglected from a young age and moreso once I was a teen. All I wanted was a family to love me. Now I have created that for myself and my mother who has dementia is still so mean to me. I don’t want to talk to her as I kind of hate her but it’s my mother so I can’t really say that. Does that answer your question?”

I just saw a social media post that suggested those of us who read a lot as children may have been dissociating from a bad situation.

People replied with astonishment— they never had viewed their constant reading that way but the idea felt accurate to them.

Maybe this will ring true or not but I wanted to share because I found that notion helpful.

OMG. This cult of cutting people off is now going after parents who instilled or supported a love of reading?

Some people have valid reasons for cutting off but this is getting out of hand. There just aren’t that many “Narcs” in the world. Good luck with your future adult kids when you’re old. I don’t know what the diagnosis du jour will be 30 years from now, but many of you will be getting it from your not medically qualified children while they spin your imperfections into intolerable acts of abuse.

[Anonymous]

One doesn't have to be a narc to be a crappy parent. Let's face it: mental health was never talked about just a few decades ago and whatever happened in the family, stayed in the family. Maybe 30 years from now things will be different, but what is happening now is certainly healthier than what people had to put up with. If we can do better, why not try? In reality, the only people who love dysfunction in the families are the ones who drive that dysfunction. I'm happy I realized (quite early on) I want to live differently, be a different parent, and I'm not sorry for it. I'm sure my kids will have something to complain about, but I can tell you, they will not be complaining about the things I had to deal with. As far as reading is concerned, why not? It's living in a fantasy world. There are other ways to dissociate, playing video games for example. I would not doubt there may be some truth to it.

[Anonymous]

This is a complicated issue for me. My mother wasn't abusive in a classic sense, but she is and always was emotionally incredibly fragile and hugely needy, and couldn't ever stop spiraling until everyone around her was as upset as she was...then she'd "relax." I later learned that this is a form of borderline personality disorder, and she had been seeing a therapist for a while who fired her, then another (both saying that she was not able to do therapy because being introspective was too scary, or something).
Anyway, after my dad couldn't take it anymore and left, i became the parent in our relationship (I was a young teen). As a result for many years I veered between feeling totally enmseshed, responsible for her emotional health (which is impossible with someone as unstable as she is), and resentful.

In a miracle beyond miracles, she remarried and for a period of years, I was able to maintain boundaries, living across the country and having my own family. After her husband died, however, she spiraled. And then she got dementia and I am the only person who is around for her (once again). I do have a sibling but they have always disappeared in the face of any emotional demand. So now I have had to move my mom out of her house, across the country and into an assisted living (and soon, memory care) near me. Its brought up a huge raft of feelings; annoyance, resentment, but also guilt. She calls 3-6 times a day, telling me how lonely and sad and upset she is and how her life is empty blah blah blah. And I kind of get it--it sucks to be an old person in an assisted living and losing your marbles. But its also the same story she has used her entire life to suck people into her emotional vortex and I just want to scream that I am not responsible for her happiness. I may be responsible for her care now, but I spent way way too long trying to make her happy, a wholly impossible task that only made me unhappy. So, in a weird way, when she is mean and nasty to me now (which alternates with telling me how important I am to her and I am the only person in the world left for her), its actually almost a relief. It makes me feel LESS guilty.

Still, its hard when I hear her bad mouthing me to the other people at the assisted living as prioritizing "vacations" over her care (because we took a trip without her), etc, etc (never occurs to her to criticize my otherwise unencumbered single sibling who does whatever they want whenever they want for calling her every 2-3 months and otherwise fully, completing washing their hands of a single responsibility for her current medical and mental care, her finances, her taxes, shopping for her, entertainment, coordination with care givers, moving her out of her home, cleaning out said home and renovating it and renting it out, from across the county, to ensure income stream to cover increasing costs, though they will inherit 50% of said property one day). But that's another rant--the family members who dont help (although many of them have opinions! fortunately my sibling doesnt have opinions, doesn't even participate in discussions around our parent).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One doesn't have to be a narc to be a crappy parent. Let's face it: mental health was never talked about just a few decades ago and whatever happened in the family, stayed in the family. Maybe 30 years from now things will be different, but what is happening now is certainly healthier than what people had to put up with. If we can do better, why not try? In reality, the only people who love dysfunction in the families are the ones who drive that dysfunction. I'm happy I realized (quite early on) I want to live differently, be a different parent, and I'm not sorry for it. I'm sure my kids will have something to complain about, but I can tell you, they will not be complaining about the things I had to deal with. As far as reading is concerned, why not? It's living in a fantasy world. There are other ways to dissociate, playing video games for example. I would not doubt there may be some truth to it.

This. My mother privately mocks her friends who got therapy. Meanwhile abusive behavior and mental illness ran rampant in her own family and within her. Her friends are close with their adult children. Some broke very disturbing cycles. Lots of estrangements in mom's family. I am low contact because that works for me and i make sure she has good professionals taking care of her needs. People talk about this plague of estrangements and low contact, but who is ill? The people who slowly distance quite often report a sense of safety or relief and improvement in physical and mental health. The ones who complain are often the ones who refused to get help and preferred to take out their demons on others. So they were "ill" before the estrangement too, but they got a strange relief from being hurtful to others. I really think it can be like an addiction to drama and anger and the release.Now they don't have their fix and it's time to truly get healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One doesn't have to be a narc to be a crappy parent. Let's face it: mental health was never talked about just a few decades ago and whatever happened in the family, stayed in the family. Maybe 30 years from now things will be different, but what is happening now is certainly healthier than what people had to put up with. If we can do better, why not try? In reality, the only people who love dysfunction in the families are the ones who drive that dysfunction. I'm happy I realized (quite early on) I want to live differently, be a different parent, and I'm not sorry for it. I'm sure my kids will have something to complain about, but I can tell you, they will not be complaining about the things I had to deal with. As far as reading is concerned, why not? It's living in a fantasy world. There are other ways to dissociate, playing video games for example. I would not doubt there may be some truth to it.

I know better and do better than my parents. This forum has become a circlejerk for people who diagnose and judge elders with no mercy and based on TikTok psychology. It’s sick. I know generational trauma and violence, and there are times when “NC” is warranted. But it’s become a default for people who didn’t get what they think was perfect parenting. And the ones who screech the loudest and hurt their vulnerable parent will be the ones screeching for inheritance as well. If you’re so healthy with these NC relationships, why are you all constantly bemoaning it in here. Go be happy.

You need a separate forum so those of us who actually want to care for elders can have normal conversations that don’t immediately get derailed into this cult like behavior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I know better and do better than my parents. This forum has become a circlejerk for people who diagnose and judge elders with no mercy and based on TikTok psychology. It’s sick. I know generational trauma and violence, and there are times when “NC” is warranted. But it’s become a default for people who didn’t get what they think was perfect parenting. And the ones who screech the loudest and hurt their vulnerable parent will be the ones screeching for inheritance as well. If you’re so healthy with these NC relationships, why are you all constantly bemoaning it in here. Go be happy.

You need a separate forum so those of us who actually want to care for elders can have normal conversations that don’t immediately get derailed into this cult like behavior

Good for you. I'm the PP and I personally am not NC, but am LC. That said, elder care is often enmeshed with emotional abuse, sometimes both ways. If you notice, most elder care topics circle about dealing with old women (moms), who both live longer and cause more emotional trauma than men (fathers). It's impossible to discuss an elder care topic without having to deal with related mental health issues. In the end, how and who is to care for elders has to do with what kind of people they are and have been. People who don't want to do any eldercare don't come here (real NC, something really bad happened), people who have no problems doing it all don't come here either (happy families). Most issues have to do with how much involvement should one have given the past and our own background with the elder. I've never seen a nice and pleasant person turn nasty in their old age. For me, this board has been immensely useful in both understanding that I'm not alone and that my feelings in this matter are valid.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I can relate. My husband is like this. I am trying to get out of this marriage, and I have distanced myself. He's sensing it and is being particularly hurtful right now.

To others he can appear very gentle and unassuming. With me and with his brother, he yells, calls us names, and bullies us. His brother will always do what he says, because he doesn't live with my husband and is only occasionally a victim. With me it's another story. I've lived with this man who is progressively more abusive for years. Kind of like a boiled frog situation, except that now I finally see an opportunity to escape.

It's not just elderly parents, OP. It takes a particular kind of individual, who lacks common decency and respect for others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know better and do better than my parents. This forum has become a circlejerk for people who diagnose and judge elders with no mercy and based on TikTok psychology. It’s sick. I know generational trauma and violence, and there are times when “NC” is warranted. But it’s become a default for people who didn’t get what they think was perfect parenting. And the ones who screech the loudest and hurt their vulnerable parent will be the ones screeching for inheritance as well. If you’re so healthy with these NC relationships, why are you all constantly bemoaning it in here. Go be happy.

You need a separate forum so those of us who actually want to care for elders can have normal conversations that don’t immediately get derailed into this cult like behavior

Good for you. I'm the PP and I personally am not NC, but am LC. That said, elder care is often enmeshed with emotional abuse, sometimes both ways. If you notice, most elder care topics circle about dealing with old women (moms), who both live longer and cause more emotional trauma than men (fathers). It's impossible to discuss an elder care topic without having to deal with related mental health issues. In the end, how and who is to care for elders has to do with what kind of people they are and have been. People who don't want to do any eldercare don't come here (real NC, something really bad happened), people who have no problems doing it all don't come here either (happy families). Most issues have to do with how much involvement should one have given the past and our own background with the elder. I've never seen a nice and pleasant person turn nasty in their old age. For me, this board has been immensely useful in both understanding that I'm not alone and that my feelings in this matter are valid.

You’ve never seen a nice elder turn nasty? How many have you cared for? This is a very common dynamic with elders who lose significant autonomy and/or have a lot of anger in their dementia. Who do they take it out on? Their safest people. It really is hard but it’s also not something they can control. I’ve been that safe person more than once and it isn’t easy. But I didn’t join the NC cult either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You’ve never seen a nice elder turn nasty? How many have you cared for? This is a very common dynamic with elders who lose significant autonomy and/or have a lot of anger in their dementia. Who do they take it out on? Their safest people. It really is hard but it’s also not something they can control. I’ve been that safe person more than once and it isn’t easy. But I didn’t join the NC cult either.

I'm on the 3rd elder. Mine don't/didn't have dementia. Two were worried about others until the last day, one has always been selfish and nasty, especially towards the young and powerless (for some reason, especially females). A lot of elders don't have dementia. They still get old and helpless. I don't think people go NC with dementia patients, they may distance if it becomes unbearable or unsafe, which is normal. Why would you put your own family (kids) in danger? NC/LC normally happens way earlier, from my experience usually when people have their own kids and the reality hits them in the face. It's the realization of how can someone do this/that to a little kid?! I agree with the PP that it doesn't have to be a parent, can be an elderly spouse and I completely understand. These behaviors escalate over the years and don't happen overnight. And yes, these people can be SO nice to outsiders. In the end, you can call NC a cult if you want, you cannot judge others as you don't know their circumstances. If NC makes them better parents and allows their kids to have a better childhood -- you know what, I'm all for it.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP and wanted to add that I never had a need for DCUM or similar anonymous exchange of thoughts until the last elder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One doesn't have to be a narc to be a crappy parent. Let's face it: mental health was never talked about just a few decades ago and whatever happened in the family, stayed in the family. Maybe 30 years from now things will be different, but what is happening now is certainly healthier than what people had to put up with. If we can do better, why not try? In reality, the only people who love dysfunction in the families are the ones who drive that dysfunction. I'm happy I realized (quite early on) I want to live differently, be a different parent, and I'm not sorry for it. I'm sure my kids will have something to complain about, but I can tell you, they will not be complaining about the things I had to deal with. As far as reading is concerned, why not? It's living in a fantasy world. There are other ways to dissociate, playing video games for example. I would not doubt there may be some truth to it.

I know better and do better than my parents. This forum has become a circlejerk for people who diagnose and judge elders with no mercy and based on TikTok psychology. It’s sick. I know generational trauma and violence, and there are times when “NC” is warranted. But it’s become a default for people who didn’t get what they think was perfect parenting. And the ones who screech the loudest and hurt their vulnerable parent will be the ones screeching for inheritance as well. If you’re so healthy with these NC relationships, why are you all constantly bemoaning it in here. Go be happy.

You need a separate forum so those of us who actually want to care for elders can have normal conversations that don’t immediately get derailed into this cult like behavior

There are numerous other forums where people think like you. Why aren't you on those sites GrandmaBigPants? It's because you live to scold and tell people they are wrong. I can very well imagine what you are like irl.