Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent

+1 I think this is spot on, and I'm a woman.

I was also a sahm for a bit. I did give the option for DH to be the sahp, but he declined. LOL. And I know exactly why he did. Personally, being a sahp to very young kids was not my cup of tea, nor is it his. I don't enjoy that aspect of being a parent. But it was necessary for our family at the time. Being a sahp was easier mentally, but tedious, and you almost never get to just take a break whenever you feel like it. When you feel sick, you can't just tell your kids, "Hey, I'm having a sick day. Be back tomorrow."

Quite honestly, I wouldn't lack respect for my DH if he had chosen to be a sahd for that time period, but I have a feeling that he would not have been as thorough in his cleaning and cooking. He has different priorities than I do, and I'm more type A than he is. So, I would've been more critical of him as a sahp because the house wasn't as clean as it should be. I notice a lot more dust and crumbs than he does. LOL. It worked for the best.

Having stated that, I don't think women should be a sahp forever. When the kids are much older and don't need you as much, I think moms should get a job.

Being a sahp forever is not great for many reasons: 1. kills your brain cells and you start to get lazy 2. you never know what might happen either to your marriage or to your spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent

Don’t disagree with this but as a working mom just wanted to chime in that I also do all the things you describe your wife do and same number of kids. Would not say is a 6 hour shift

I have a housekeeper that does all of the cooking, cleaning, errand running, laundry, grocery shopping, and home maintenance stuff. She works 8am-1pm five days a week. She seems pretty busy.

ohhhhh! You’re right - all working moms without a housekeeper are wrong. It’s truly not possible to take care of your family and work an 8-9 hour shift. Ty for enlightening us all. Side note - instacart! Wonderful invention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent

+1 I think this is spot on, and I'm a woman.

I was also a sahm for a bit. I did give the option for DH to be the sahp, but he declined. LOL. And I know exactly why he did. Personally, being a sahp to very young kids was not my cup of tea, nor is it his. I don't enjoy that aspect of being a parent. But it was necessary for our family at the time. Being a sahp was easier mentally, but tedious, and you almost never get to just take a break whenever you feel like it. When you feel sick, you can't just tell your kids, "Hey, I'm having a sick day. Be back tomorrow."

Quite honestly, I wouldn't lack respect for my DH if he had chosen to be a sahd for that time period, but I have a feeling that he would not have been as thorough in his cleaning and cooking. He has different priorities than I do, and I'm more type A than he is. So, I would've been more critical of him as a sahp because the house wasn't as clean as it should be. I notice a lot more dust and crumbs than he does. LOL. It worked for the best.

Having stated that, I don't think women should be a sahp forever. When the kids are much older and don't need you as much, I think moms should get a job.

Being a sahp forever is not great for many reasons: 1. kills your brain cells and you start to get lazy 2. you never know what might happen either to your marriage or to your spouse.

Np and agree. I find myself judging my friends who still don’t work even though their kids are at school now. And I know their husbands feel resentful bc they talk about it in hushed tones, but increasingly more vocally. I feel like many women have hid behind gender roles and made up numbers of hours of ‘home stuff’ for a long time and the husbands/ society buy it. If you’re doing 6 hours of stuff a day you are doing something wrong - and plus esp if you have a degree idk why these women prefer to clean than get a full or part time job they might actually enjoy and earn double snag it would cost to pay a cleaner, for example

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent

Don’t disagree with this but as a working mom just wanted to chime in that I also do all the things you describe your wife do and same number of kids. Would not say is a 6 hour shift

I have a housekeeper that does all of the cooking, cleaning, errand running, laundry, grocery shopping, and home maintenance stuff. She works 8am-1pm five days a week. She seems pretty busy.

ohhhhh! You’re right - all working moms without a housekeeper are wrong. It’s truly not possible to take care of your family and work an 8-9 hour shift. Ty for enlightening us all. Side note - instacart! Wonderful invention.

No. I’m just saying that if you add it up, between you and your husband, you are probably spending 20-30 hours a week on cooking, cleaning, laundry, errands, yardwork, and home maintenance. You can do that and still work 8 hours a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because Adam was punished with needing to work to live, and Eve was punished with pain in childbirth.

It all goes back to that first sin in the garden of Eden

I thought he was already keeping things out of the garden. Where was he when the serpent came?

Masturbating behind a bush.

[Anonymous]

I've seen this frequently with my coworkers and clients - my husband is a SAHP - he had a career and his company went under at the same time our kids were all going into elementary and we didn't really need a nanny anymore. He wanted to try to do some other things but got involved with the kids school and is pretty busy juggling 3 children's schedules, etc.. For me it is so much easier to have him at home as long as he is happy with it because the household runs more easilyl - but many times male co-workers or clients have commented on how "easy" he has it or why doesn't he work even though their wives do not work.

[Anonymous]

Because women do the lion share of child rearing and housework and invisible mental load. I have a family member however, who called herself a SAHM but outsourced all of that. Her dh worked full time, actually cooked, and far more hands on with the kids while the wife was just spoiled and literally spent the days working out, playing golf/tennis, lunching, and drinking. And not a nice person to boot. I judge her harshly. Wouldn’t judge a guy who is a great sah parent, wouldn’t judge anyone for being a sah parent. It’s a great thing for a family if you can swing it. I do judge however sah parents who don’t do anything, the same type whose boredom usually evolves into nastiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent

+1 I think this is spot on, and I'm a woman.

I was also a sahm for a bit. I did give the option for DH to be the sahp, but he declined. LOL. And I know exactly why he did. Personally, being a sahp to very young kids was not my cup of tea, nor is it his. I don't enjoy that aspect of being a parent. But it was necessary for our family at the time. Being a sahp was easier mentally, but tedious, and you almost never get to just take a break whenever you feel like it. When you feel sick, you can't just tell your kids, "Hey, I'm having a sick day. Be back tomorrow."

Quite honestly, I wouldn't lack respect for my DH if he had chosen to be a sahd for that time period, but I have a feeling that he would not have been as thorough in his cleaning and cooking. He has different priorities than I do, and I'm more type A than he is. So, I would've been more critical of him as a sahp because the house wasn't as clean as it should be. I notice a lot more dust and crumbs than he does. LOL. It worked for the best.

Having stated that, I don't think women should be a sahp forever. When the kids are much older and don't need you as much, I think moms should get a job.

Being a sahp forever is not great for many reasons: 1. kills your brain cells and you start to get lazy 2. you never know what might happen either to your marriage or to your spouse.

Also lets not forget that most men aren't in as demanding and lucrative careers as big law. Do you hold the same esteem for working as the person working at McDonalds?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because Adam was punished with needing to work to live, and Eve was punished with pain in childbirth.

It all goes back to that first sin in the garden of Eden

I thought he was already keeping things out of the garden. Where was he when the serpent came?

Masturbating behind a bush.

lol.. And I'm a Christian. But, that's so funny, because it kind of hits the mark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent

Don’t disagree with this but as a working mom just wanted to chime in that I also do all the things you describe your wife do and same number of kids. Would not say is a 6 hour shift

I have a housekeeper that does all of the cooking, cleaning, errand running, laundry, grocery shopping, and home maintenance stuff. She works 8am-1pm five days a week. She seems pretty busy.

ohhhhh! You’re right - all working moms without a housekeeper are wrong. It’s truly not possible to take care of your family and work an 8-9 hour shift. Ty for enlightening us all. Side note - instacart! Wonderful invention.

No. I’m just saying that if you add it up, between you and your husband, you are probably spending 20-30 hours a week on cooking, cleaning, laundry, errands, yardwork, and home maintenance. You can do that and still work 8 hours a day.

We are absolutely not doing 20-30 hours a week of these things. Unless you have an estate and five kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent

+1 I think this is spot on, and I'm a woman.

I was also a sahm for a bit. I did give the option for DH to be the sahp, but he declined. LOL. And I know exactly why he did. Personally, being a sahp to very young kids was not my cup of tea, nor is it his. I don't enjoy that aspect of being a parent. But it was necessary for our family at the time. Being a sahp was easier mentally, but tedious, and you almost never get to just take a break whenever you feel like it. When you feel sick, you can't just tell your kids, "Hey, I'm having a sick day. Be back tomorrow."

Quite honestly, I wouldn't lack respect for my DH if he had chosen to be a sahd for that time period, but I have a feeling that he would not have been as thorough in his cleaning and cooking. He has different priorities than I do, and I'm more type A than he is. So, I would've been more critical of him as a sahp because the house wasn't as clean as it should be. I notice a lot more dust and crumbs than he does. LOL. It worked for the best.

Having stated that, I don't think women should be a sahp forever. When the kids are much older and don't need you as much, I think moms should get a job.

Being a sahp forever is not great for many reasons: 1. kills your brain cells and you start to get lazy 2. you never know what might happen either to your marriage or to your spouse.

Also lets not forget that most men aren't in as demanding and lucrative careers as big law. Do you hold the same esteem for working as the person working at McDonalds?

PP here.. first of all, DH is not in big law. Neither of us are lawyers. You realize that not everyone in the DC area are lawyers, right? Though, yes, there is an outsized rate of them here. Actually, neither DH nor I work in the public sector.

Secondly, it would depend on the life circumstances. Generally, people marry within their SES. I met DH at work. We work in the same type of job, earn about the same. I'm gonna take a (tiny) leap here and assume that 99% of white collar workers aren't married to someone who works at McDs. But, if my SES was low, and I didn't have a degree, as long as my DH *worked* the best that he could, it wouldn't bother me. As a matter of fact, both my parents were blue collar workers. They started out as janitors. I have the utmost respect for how hard my parents worked.

And that's the thing: I saw how hard my parents worked; how much they sacrificed. And that rubbed off on me. So, I expect the same of myself and DH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent

+1 I think this is spot on, and I'm a woman.

I was also a sahm for a bit. I did give the option for DH to be the sahp, but he declined. LOL. And I know exactly why he did. Personally, being a sahp to very young kids was not my cup of tea, nor is it his. I don't enjoy that aspect of being a parent. But it was necessary for our family at the time. Being a sahp was easier mentally, but tedious, and you almost never get to just take a break whenever you feel like it. When you feel sick, you can't just tell your kids, "Hey, I'm having a sick day. Be back tomorrow."

Quite honestly, I wouldn't lack respect for my DH if he had chosen to be a sahd for that time period, but I have a feeling that he would not have been as thorough in his cleaning and cooking. He has different priorities than I do, and I'm more type A than he is. So, I would've been more critical of him as a sahp because the house wasn't as clean as it should be. I notice a lot more dust and crumbs than he does. LOL. It worked for the best.

Having stated that, I don't think women should be a sahp forever. When the kids are much older and don't need you as much, I think moms should get a job.

Being a sahp forever is not great for many reasons: 1. kills your brain cells and you start to get lazy 2. you never know what might happen either to your marriage or to your spouse.

Also lets not forget that most men aren't in as demanding and lucrative careers as big law. Do you hold the same esteem for working as the person working at McDonalds?

PP here.. first of all, DH is not in big law. Neither of us are lawyers. You realize that not everyone in the DC area are lawyers, right? Though, yes, there is an outsized rate of them here. Actually, neither DH nor I work in the public sector.

Secondly, it would depend on the life circumstances. Generally, people marry within their SES. I met DH at work. We work in the same type of job, earn about the same. I'm gonna take a (tiny) leap here and assume that 99% of white collar workers aren't married to someone who works at McDs. But, if my SES was low, and I didn't have a degree, as long as my DH *worked* the best that he could, it wouldn't bother me. As a matter of fact, both my parents were blue collar workers. They started out as janitors. I have the utmost respect for how hard my parents worked.

And that's the thing: I saw how hard my parents worked; how much they sacrificed. And that rubbed off on me. So, I expect the same of myself and DH.

Was responding to this person "She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine". But yes. Let's make this generalized discussion just about you and your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:S/o of the dh who posted his wife is ‘lazy’ (and not to re litigate his post) do you feel society judges men who don’t work much more harshly? I feel like if a woman wrote that their child was 10 and the dh had not yet gone back to work (even if they agreed he’d stay at home in the early years), he would be viewed much differently than a woman who is still out of the workforce once kids are in school full time. Is that true or subjective?

Women's biology of menstruation, pregnancy, labor/delivery, postpartum, breastfeeding, peri menopause, menopause justifies it scientifically. Women's record of childrearing, cooking, home caring, elder/ill caring justifies it logistically and traditionally.

[Anonymous]

Men are selected by biology to have physical strength to go out, earn and protect themselves. Until brainiac jobs and safety measures came along, women's biology limited their chances to be able to stay safe and do labor.

[Anonymous]

I work part-time and my DH works full-time, and he'd be the first to tell you that if we switched places, he'd do a quarter of the household work and childcare I currently do.

That might not be all men -- I have encountered men who are the primary parent, do the majority of the cleaning and household administration, and/or manage the family's social life and vacations. But it's a minority of men and most of the time, women are doing a LOT more of that unpaid labor in making a family work. I also know families where the man and the woman work the same amount, or the woman has the more demanding job, and yet the man STILL does not do as much of the household/childcare as the woman does. Thinking specifically of a few families I know where the women have very high powered, high paying jobs and the men are treading water, and yet the women are the ones on top of meal planning, what kids need for schools, kids activities, etc. The men do other stuff -- they play video games, they read, they have regular boys nights, etc. All perfectly fine things to do! But their wives never get to do that stuff because they are the breadwinner AND doing the bulk of everything else.

Often when men work less, they fill that extra time with things they enjoy. When women work less, we fill that time with things that benefit our whole family. Not always true, but often. I think that's why the knee jerk reaction to a man who doesn't work is that he must be a lazy freeloader. Because a lot of the employed men I know are freeloading too. Whereas if a woman with kids doesn't work, I assume she's doing pretty much everything else. And most of the time, I'm right.