“The Harsh Reality of Gentle Parenting”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m sorry to say I’m disappointed that a mental health professional is so uninformed about the parenting approach that parents, maybe your clients, are trying to use.

[Anonymous]

I think the best way to view these concepts with respect to yourself is, "what sort of parenting style fits your personality and personal abilities" the most, and see if a small bit of the opposite approaches can help you.
For example, if you're a super-perfectionist with every minute scheduled, who is super-strict about rules, then relaxing everything by 10%, giving your kids a LITTLE less structure and letting yourself be a LITTLE less tightly wound might generate significant returns for their well-being and your relationship; it doesn't mean you should entirely turn into hippie-dippy crunchy parent and abandon your way.

On the other hand if you're really disorganized and chaotic and that's your style, but it causes problems, organizing somewhat - a more structured routine, a directed activity - can be good for your kids, but you also don't need to turn into tightly-wound tiger mom, because you won't be able to sustain it.

There are absolute excesses in permissive parenting, and unschooling and child-led traditions, and I see them a lot.
There are also excesses in the more mainstream parenting.

It can be reflected in sleep-training a very young baby who is clearly suffering by it and not knowing when to stop; waiting too late to potty train when "not ready" has ripened into "not interested"; disciplining a child who wants your attention or needs to run out their energy; etc. Not disciplining a child when they are inappropriate or disrespectful to yourself or others; enforcing routine to ridiculous levels, without any give; having no routine at all. All of these are not right, and they come up in every philosophy of parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just skimmed the article, so I could be off base, but I'm not sure if our definitions of gentle parenting are the same.

I have a child who is extremely anxious. When she says she is too anxious to go to school, I am gentle and understanding, but I make her go to school.

When I am angry, I don't bottle up my emotions, but I also don't take my anger out on my kids or suggest that they are somehow the cause of my anger.

If my kid doesn't want to do an assignment, I don't make them do an assignment, but I also wouldn't dream of shielding them from the teacher's consequences of not handing in the assignment.

I don't yell at my kid when they don't do their chores, but I do stand next to them and keep asking them to do their chores until they do them, rather than just not giving my kids chores.

My approach is really not outcome-based, it's more needs-based, which is why I'm generally attracted to the idea of gentle parenting. And so much of what kids need is boundaries, guidance through difficult times (rather than help avoiding difficult times), and allowing kids to fail.

So, I dunno. I wonder if it's hard to talk about gentle parenting because the terms aren't firmly defined.

How is that fair to your kid’s teachers? They need parents to back them up, not make their jobs even more difficult.

Why is it unfair? I’d the kid doesn’t hand in an assignment, the teacher gives them a zero and moves on. It’s not like I’m telling my kid not to do the work or they shouldn’t follow the teacher’s instructions. I offer to help my kid but they are responsible for their own grades. And you will never ever see me contact a teacher to whine about a kid’s bad grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m sorry to say I’m disappointed that a mental health professional is so uninformed about the parenting approach that parents, maybe your clients, are trying to use.

What I’m seeing is women who feel like they are something approaching monsters when they say something as un-gentle as “that’s enough, Liam. Put grandma’s urn down now please.” Like I said, there’s a lot to like about gentle parenting but to the extant that people are trying to emulate unrealistic gentle parenting influencers there is a downside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think empathy, modeling the behavior you want to see, and getting away from shame all make sense, but also think there are some parts of gentle parenting philosophy that are actively bad for parents and kids.

I think advice that tells parents (moms) that they can't express a full range of emotions is really problematic (the go in the garage and scream in a pillow rather than show frustration or anger in front of your child-to me that is messed up.

More harmful to me as the parent of a kid with anxiety is the constant smoothing of the path for kids. The experts in my life keep stressing that my role as a parent is to help my kid build distress tolerance. Kids need to know that they can hear "no" and they will be okay, that someone can be angry at them and they will be okay. If you don't have those small experiences of suffering and recovering through childhood-how do you get to a place where failing a test in college, or getting negative feedback from a boss is something you accept, recover, and work through. I see young people in my life who do not seem to be able to navigate even small adversities without falling apart and I wonder if there is a connection to this style of parenting.

I agree and think both of these are real risks and it doesn't help when parenting in the later years and leads to burnout.

I found that most parents struggled with trying to get their toddlers and preschoolers to stop doing things that totally just didn't matter at all.

I recall my friend getting into this ridiculously long session of back and forth with her almost 3 yr old because he wouldn't sit at the table to eat snack. I couldn't believe she could be so vested in that. She felt that if he didn't follow what she said now it would cascade over to other areas. It ended up with crying and threats of no snack and so no. I seem to recall he wanted to sit on the steps that led down into their family area/playroom. I didn't have the heart to tell her at home we let our child stand next to the table at dinner and eat. Yeah it was weird but we let her as long as she stood in one place and didn't run around. So for a few months, she put her plate on her chair and stood there and ate. We of course sat at the table and ate. One day she said she wanted her plate on the table and from then on she sat at the table and ate. She is now a teen, doesn't remember a thing about it, and can't believe she ever did something like that.

I see this all the time. Parents trying to control too many things (most of which don't matter at all) and ending up not controlling any at all. Food is a big one. Just the other day I saw several parents trying to force their children to wear jackets during outside play. The children wanted to play without wearing the jackets and for some reason it was a big deal for their mothers. A lot of crying, arguing etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m sorry to say I’m disappointed that a mental health professional is so uninformed about the parenting approach that parents, maybe your clients, are trying to use.

What I’m seeing is women who feel like they are something approaching monsters when they say something as un-gentle as “that’s enough, Liam. Put grandma’s urn down now please.” Like I said, there’s a lot to like about gentle parenting but to the extant that people are trying to emulate unrealistic gentle parenting influencers there is a downside.

If women are worried about saying stuff like that, it's not because of gentle parenting, it's because we live in a culture with unrealistic expectations for women and they don't feel they can do anything right. I don't know a single gentle parenting advocate who would have a single problem with this woman telling Liam to put down grandma's urn before he breaks it.

Basically half of gentle parenting advice is about helping parents self-regulate so that they can deal with their kids without getting so worked up. Seriously, this is mostly why I use it -- it's about getting myself in a good headspace so I don't lose my cool. The empathy stuff with kids is also helpful at times because it can help solve problems where you really have no idea why your kid is doing something and you need to get it before you can address it. But you don't have to empathize with your kids 100% of the time, mostly just when they are clearly out of control or having persistent problems around the same issues. The rest of the time you can expect them to self-regulate. And then you can focus on your own needs and making sure they are being met so that if/when something does go wrong, you are in a headspace to handle it calmly instead of resorting to yelling (which everyone knows doesn't work! which is the whole point!).

Gentle parenting isn't about being a martyr. At all. It's literally just about not screaming at your kids and ordering them around and feeling like a drill sergeant all the time. Which is how a lot of moms feel when their kids aren't listening and they are out of ideas for how to get them to listen. Gentle parenting is like, here, have some other ideas! They might help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m sorry to say I’m disappointed that a mental health professional is so uninformed about the parenting approach that parents, maybe your clients, are trying to use.

What I’m seeing is women who feel like they are something approaching monsters when they say something as un-gentle as “that’s enough, Liam. Put grandma’s urn down now please.” Like I said, there’s a lot to like about gentle parenting but to the extant that people are trying to emulate unrealistic gentle parenting influencers there is a downside.

If women are worried about saying stuff like that, it's not because of gentle parenting, it's because we live in a culture with unrealistic expectations for women and they don't feel they can do anything right. I don't know a single gentle parenting advocate who would have a single problem with this woman telling Liam to put down grandma's urn before he breaks it.

Basically half of gentle parenting advice is about helping parents self-regulate so that they can deal with their kids without getting so worked up. Seriously, this is mostly why I use it -- it's about getting myself in a good headspace so I don't lose my cool. The empathy stuff with kids is also helpful at times because it can help solve problems where you really have no idea why your kid is doing something and you need to get it before you can address it. But you don't have to empathize with your kids 100% of the time, mostly just when they are clearly out of control or having persistent problems around the same issues. The rest of the time you can expect them to self-regulate. And then you can focus on your own needs and making sure they are being met so that if/when something does go wrong, you are in a headspace to handle it calmly instead of resorting to yelling (which everyone knows doesn't work! which is the whole point!).

Gentle parenting isn't about being a martyr. At all. It's literally just about not screaming at your kids and ordering them around and feeling like a drill sergeant all the time. Which is how a lot of moms feel when their kids aren't listening and they are out of ideas for how to get them to listen. Gentle parenting is like, here, have some other ideas! They might help.

There are ways to offer choices and empathize and not feel guilty about not having a (non-yelling or shaming but serious l) come to Jesus with a 4 year old who keeps hitting his baby sister. Authoritative (note-not authoritarian) is one. Gentle parenting advocates suggest even “good work on cleaning up your toys!” or “you need to put your shoes on right now” are problematic. I think over reliance on carrots and sticks CAN be problematic but so can some aspects of gentle parenting dogma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m sorry to say I’m disappointed that a mental health professional is so uninformed about the parenting approach that parents, maybe your clients, are trying to use.

What I’m seeing is women who feel like they are something approaching monsters when they say something as un-gentle as “that’s enough, Liam. Put grandma’s urn down now please.” Like I said, there’s a lot to like about gentle parenting but to the extant that people are trying to emulate unrealistic gentle parenting influencers there is a downside.

That statement is the "gentle parenting" approach! or trying that and if it doesn't work, you go and get the urn from the kid, it's not "WHY WOULD YOU THINK GRANDMA's URN IS A TOY. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" and shaming the child for doing something like that. Janet Lansbury talks about holding the child's arms and saying "i'm not going to let you hit" versus "please stop hitting."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m sorry to say I’m disappointed that a mental health professional is so uninformed about the parenting approach that parents, maybe your clients, are trying to use.

What I’m seeing is women who feel like they are something approaching monsters when they say something as un-gentle as “that’s enough, Liam. Put grandma’s urn down now please.” Like I said, there’s a lot to like about gentle parenting but to the extant that people are trying to emulate unrealistic gentle parenting influencers there is a downside.

That statement is the "gentle parenting" approach! or trying that and if it doesn't work, you go and get the urn from the kid, it's not "WHY WOULD YOU THINK GRANDMA's URN IS A TOY. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" and shaming the child for doing something like that. Janet Lansbury talks about holding the child's arms and saying "i'm not going to let you hit" versus "please stop hitting."

That statement is also perfectly compatible with authoritative parenting, a big no no to gentle parenting advocates. And what about the absurd example in the article of how to respond when a kid is hitting their sibling? It’s bizarre how gentle parenting hypotheticals often envision no siblings ( or siblings who won’t be affected by ignoring their needs to dive deep into a marauding pre-schoolers current desires.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m sorry to say I’m disappointed that a mental health professional is so uninformed about the parenting approach that parents, maybe your clients, are trying to use.

What I’m seeing is women who feel like they are something approaching monsters when they say something as un-gentle as “that’s enough, Liam. Put grandma’s urn down now please.” Like I said, there’s a lot to like about gentle parenting but to the extant that people are trying to emulate unrealistic gentle parenting influencers there is a downside.

That statement is the "gentle parenting" approach! or trying that and if it doesn't work, you go and get the urn from the kid, it's not "WHY WOULD YOU THINK GRANDMA's URN IS A TOY. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" and shaming the child for doing something like that. Janet Lansbury talks about holding the child's arms and saying "i'm not going to let you hit" versus "please stop hitting."

For a 2 or 3 year old, the better words are "No hitting!" Fewer words work better. And if they do it again, pick them up and put them in their room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m sorry to say I’m disappointed that a mental health professional is so uninformed about the parenting approach that parents, maybe your clients, are trying to use.

What I’m seeing is women who feel like they are something approaching monsters when they say something as un-gentle as “that’s enough, Liam. Put grandma’s urn down now please.” Like I said, there’s a lot to like about gentle parenting but to the extant that people are trying to emulate unrealistic gentle parenting influencers there is a downside.

That statement is the "gentle parenting" approach! or trying that and if it doesn't work, you go and get the urn from the kid, it's not "WHY WOULD YOU THINK GRANDMA's URN IS A TOY. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" and shaming the child for doing something like that. Janet Lansbury talks about holding the child's arms and saying "i'm not going to let you hit" versus "please stop hitting."

For a 2 or 3 year old, the better words are "No hitting!" Fewer words work better. And if they do it again, pick them up and put them in their room.

Why do you say that? I am just curious. My kids at that age cold definitely understand “I’m not going to let you do that.” Although I think I said “hitting is not okay, it hurts, here is how you be soft instead.” (And it worked.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mental health professional and loved this article. There is a lot to like in gentle parenting but the ideas that parents should constantly disguise their emotional state is a big problem. There’s a world of difference between “you make mommy sad!” and a gauzy, cooing “it seems like you’re having such a good time hitting mommy in the face with your train’” type response. Also, the part about hitting the little sister was perfect example of the excesses/absurdity of the gentle parenting ethos.

I’m sorry to say I’m disappointed that a mental health professional is so uninformed about the parenting approach that parents, maybe your clients, are trying to use.

What I’m seeing is women who feel like they are something approaching monsters when they say something as un-gentle as “that’s enough, Liam. Put grandma’s urn down now please.” Like I said, there’s a lot to like about gentle parenting but to the extant that people are trying to emulate unrealistic gentle parenting influencers there is a downside.

That statement is the "gentle parenting" approach! or trying that and if it doesn't work, you go and get the urn from the kid, it's not "WHY WOULD YOU THINK GRANDMA's URN IS A TOY. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" and shaming the child for doing something like that. Janet Lansbury talks about holding the child's arms and saying "i'm not going to let you hit" versus "please stop hitting."

For a 2 or 3 year old, the better words are "No hitting!" Fewer words work better. And if they do it again, pick them up and put them in their room.

Why do you say that? I am just curious. My kids at that age cold definitely understand “I’m not going to let you do that.” Although I think I said “hitting is not okay, it hurts, here is how you be soft instead.” (And it worked.)

Sure, young children can understand lots of words. But short rules are better in the moment. What is the rule? No hitting. It's not Hitting is not okay, or Hands are not for hitting. In the moment, children do better with fewer words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think empathy, modeling the behavior you want to see, and getting away from shame all make sense, but also think there are some parts of gentle parenting philosophy that are actively bad for parents and kids.

I think advice that tells parents (moms) that they can't express a full range of emotions is really problematic (the go in the garage and scream in a pillow rather than show frustration or anger in front of your child-to me that is messed up.

More harmful to me as the parent of a kid with anxiety is the constant smoothing of the path for kids. The experts in my life keep stressing that my role as a parent is to help my kid build distress tolerance. Kids need to know that they can hear "no" and they will be okay, that someone can be angry at them and they will be okay. If you don't have those small experiences of suffering and recovering through childhood-how do you get to a place where failing a test in college, or getting negative feedback from a boss is something you accept, recover, and work through. I see young people in my life who do not seem to be able to navigate even small adversities without falling apart and I wonder if there is a connection to this style of parenting.

I agree and think both of these are real risks and it doesn't help when parenting in the later years and leads to burnout.

I found that most parents struggled with trying to get their toddlers and preschoolers to stop doing things that totally just didn't matter at all.

I recall my friend getting into this ridiculously long session of back and forth with her almost 3 yr old because he wouldn't sit at the table to eat snack. I couldn't believe she could be so vested in that. She felt that if he didn't follow what she said now it would cascade over to other areas. It ended up with crying and threats of no snack and so no. I seem to recall he wanted to sit on the steps that led down into their family area/playroom. I didn't have the heart to tell her at home we let our child stand next to the table at dinner and eat. Yeah it was weird but we let her as long as she stood in one place and didn't run around. So for a few months, she put her plate on her chair and stood there and ate. We of course sat at the table and ate. One day she said she wanted her plate on the table and from then on she sat at the table and ate. She is now a teen, doesn't remember a thing about it, and can't believe she ever did something like that.

I see this all the time. Parents trying to control too many things (most of which don't matter at all) and ending up not controlling any at all. Food is a big one. Just the other day I saw several parents trying to force their children to wear jackets during outside play. The children wanted to play without wearing the jackets and for some reason it was a big deal for their mothers. A lot of crying, arguing etc.

Yeah, I agree. I lean more authoritative but I don’t generally do the big meal control thing. Let’s try and eat together sure, but flexible seating and no expectations about remaining at table for X minutes. This might be because we can’t really all fit in the kitchen. And jackets? I wouldn’t fight over that. I save my energy for making sure chores are done, family members respect each other and there’s not hitting (toddlers ugh).

[Anonymous]

Yeah my husbands siblings were big into gentle parenting and they are some of the most stressed out parents I know. And the kids are, not surprisingly, running roughshod over the parents more and more as they get older.

I guess I'm an authoritative parent according to these labels, but really, I just think I am a standard parent...

[Anonymous]

She is talking about permissive parenting not gentle parenting. So her whole article is moot.

Nothing about gentle parenting says you cant have boundaries. Any of the gentle parenting books I have read or IG accounts I follow 100% espouse that gentle parenting is for allowing emotions and recognizing them without negating the need and enforcement of boundaries. For the shoe example or we are late example, you give them an opportunity to do it themselves and then you do it for them. That's holding the boundary. Shoes are not negotiable and school is not negotiable.

"I see you are having a hard time putting your shoes on today. (recognition) Mommy has a hard time too some days. (agreement that hard is normal) Im going to go get my purse and your bag for school. And when I come back I will help you put them on OR We are going to be late for school. I can put your shoes on for you or I can help you. You choose.
Nothing is said mean or with a wagging finger or a continuation in the car of "why do you make us late everyday. We do the same thing everyday. I think you do this on purpose because you are a naughty boy" It is said matter of fact and without blame/shame. Emotions are ok. Feeling slow/not wanting to do something is normal. There are days for being lazy and being barefoot, today is not one of them.

There are mitigation techniques. There are boundaries. There is getting to know your child and understand when they are struggling and when they are struggling. It isnt cut and dry and the important part is the sum of the whole. As a parent you will lose you temper. You will get frustrated. You will shame. You are allowed to be human. What you are not supposed to do is allow it to pass without recognizing and apologizing, without noticing your own struggling behaviors/triggers and working on them. There is no point to gentle parenting without actually learning how to enforce boundaries AND be gentle/respectful. Part of learning how to do that is understanding where they are coming from developmentally. Expectations are important but flawed and a source of discontentment with all parties if the kids are even capable of doing it.